What's America Worth

[David S]

Sorry for this torturously rambling response, but here are some comments on everybody's comments...

As stated by others, equating how much is it worth to live in America doesn't translate into how much you are willing to pay in taxes.  It is priceless to live in America, but not an America with socialistically high taxes, because then it wouldn't be America, it would be a France or Germany.

True, a lot here aren't old enough to pay taxes, I am.  I currently am one that John Kerry wanted to increase the taxes on.  When you work hard to create a business, employ others and help your local community, you don't want to see a large portion of your income go to subsidize other people, many who aren't willing to get off their butts and work themselves.  The government is creating a system in which it is easier to not to work, than it is to work.  My wife's family is a perfect example of this.  They think the government owes them everything, so they don't even try to get a job, they just collect welfare and do drugs (with an occasional crime once in a while).

You can't force somebody to volunteer, it has to be in their heart to volunteer.  I volunteer my time and money for many things. Giving a tax break for it will only lead to 'volunteers' who don't accomplish anything (the difference between the GOP & Dem GOTV).

The Nordic countries also have the highest suicide rates in all the world.  So maybe it isn't the great paradise you make it out to be.

I have never served in the military, and probably would have gotten out for flat feet/bad eyesight/torn cartlege etc.  It doesn't mean I wouldn't have served in a war such as WWII.  If you believe in the cause strongly enough, you will find a way to serve.  If somebody has a strong enough conviction (not perference, a conviction is something that you're willing to die for) not to fight, then they shouldn't.  They would be a hinderance in a war.  And you can't say at this time whether you would go to war or not Philip, until you know the nature of the war.  If the war was to stop Japan from killing dolphins, you'd get very few wanting to go.  If it was a nuclear strike from China, with a large assault on our land with wanton rape and torture of you family and friends, your attitude would probably change.

Their is an old saying, with age comes wisdom.  Not always true, but many who are older have the experience of live behind them.

You said that very nicely. America is still the best country to live in. America was founded on the principles of rights, freedom, and free enterprise. Thats what made this a great country. My concern is that the socialist policies this country is leaning toward deviate from those principles. In my estimation socialism is a destructive philosophy that will lead to our downfall.

The question that was asked was how much would I pay in taxes to live in America. One of the advantages to America is that taxes are low compared to socialist leaning countries in Europe. So higher taxes would make America less of a good place. In effect the question is; am I willing to pay higher taxes to make America worse? My answer to that is no.

If I lived in Haiti I would probably pay everything I had to live in America.

[David S]

Khirkhib. Your question boils down to; what is the rightful role of government?  For the federal government that's spelled out mostly in Article 1 Section 8 of the constitution. It includes things like defense, the treasury, the patent office, the federal justice system, and the post office. Of those, by far the most costly is Defense which currently runs about $500 billion annually. If I doubled that number to account for the other constitutional functions, that would put the cost of the federal government at $1 trillion, less than half of the 2.3 trillion  currently being spent. But even the 1 trillion figure is being overly generous. Defense could be cut significantly if we didn't station soldiers in over 100 countries around the world. Also the other constitutional functions would not cost nearly as much as defense so if the federal government just did those things which the constitution provides for I would guess that the cost of government could be reduced to about $700-800 billion per year. That would mean privatizing social security, medicare, medicaid, and dropping welfare, corporate welfare, and foreign aid, and all of the pork projects.

The states have more flexibility in what they can do. The people of each state should be able to decide what they want their government to do. That way people in the Bible Belt states can say prayers in school, and post the 10 comandments if they want while people in very liberal states can legalize gay marriage, and smoking marijuana and what ever else they think is right for them.

Personally I think the states should have a role in road building and repair. Fund it with gas taxes so the people who use the most gas pay the most to support the roads. That way heavy trucks that do damage to the roads will pay a proportionally higher share of the cost as will people who drive more miles.

Education is a tougher issue. My Libertarian instincts say it should be entirely privatized, but I know that is impracticle, so I think private schools funded by vouchers might be the best answer at present.

[David S]

Let's refute some of your agrument khirkhib.  When the nation was more 'christian', the churches took care of the poor.  In fact, that is part of what Christians are suppose to do.  But by and by we have let the government take over that role.  And because of that, taxes have gone up to pay for them.  Unfortunately lower taxes probably won't help, since most people aren't 'christian' anymore, and are rather greedy.

The problem is that we have ceased to be a Christian nation.  We no longer care about others, we only care about ourselves.  We have lost our internal moral compass.  Because of that, we have to have an external compass (the government) impose morality upon us.  I know a bunch of Christians on here will argue (wrongly) that we must have the government impose these laws, but external morality or any other law only leads to rebellion.  People have to change internally before there can be any real change.

So unfortunately we are probably stuck with a big and evergrowing government.

My friend I have to disagree with you on two things: 1) Your comment "Unfortunately lower taxes probably won't help, since most people aren't 'christian' anymore, and are rather greedy."  Americans are still the most generous people in the world. I know many Christians who tythe and there are certainly many non-christian philanthropists who donate money to worthwhile causes. Billions of dollars were voluntarily donated to help out after the 9/11 attack. It would be a mistake to assume that nothing good can happen unless the government does it.

2) We don't need government to set our moral compass. That would be like saying I want to learn morality from Bill Clinton. No thanks.

[David S]

The nature of the war, who we fought, and most importantly, who we defended, would be major considerations on whether I enlisted, tolerated getting drafted, or simply dodged outright.

Dying in a rice paddy in SE Asia to prevent a Chinese conquest of the United States = A war worth enlisting
Dying in a dustpatch in Afghanistan so that some girl wouldn't later have her genatalia mutilated by the Taliban  = A draft-tolerable war.
Dying in a forest in Europe so that some kid has the opportunity enter university to badmouth both your service and the US in general = A draft-intolerable war and one worth dodging.

A war to defend the lives of Americans = A good war. A war to defend others from American-hating creeps = A tolerable war. A war to defend America-hating creeps = An unjust, immoral, government-toppling war.

In my humble opinion you could scratch the first one too. We did not win the war in Vietnam, and yet we were not invaded by China.