Israel-Gaza war

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There is something kind of awe-inspiring about how absolutely out-there Vosem's ideas on this conflict are. He thinks that anyone sending Palestine food aid, even just "broccoli or carrots", should be prosecuted. He dreams of the day when Vanuatu launches missiles into Palestine and a flotilla of all the ships in the world bombs Gaza flat. Only after that, will all of the peoples of the world— Palestinians included— link arms amidst the rubble and bodies and sing Kumbaya.

I mean, there are millions of people around the world who genuinely think they can demand a nuclear power out of existence and that attacking kosher eateries and disrupting public transit will make this possible, so it only stands to reason the other side has some out-there maximalists as well.

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Bernie Sanders is one of the few US politicians with a sense of morality

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1757257562708218358?t=LwSMPPap9EIlguXyxNuo...

5x Corbyn endorser does what Corbynists do.

Bernie is Jewish though.

That makes being a Corbyn supporter and voting for his agenda even sadder, if less unambiguously evil.

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I know that we are talking about Israel here, but this war has been an absolute disaster for the Jewish diaspora.

People of Jewish origin, like my girlfriend, who have no connection with Israel other than knowing someone there are suddenly being asked to take a position on this war.

She wants absolutely nothing to do with this war.

She is afraid that just because she is Jewish, people are going to assume that she supports the war.

As a result, she is checking her social media account and deleting anything that even remotely suggests that she's Jewish.

She is even deleting photos of her with chocolate coins.

I feel like it is critically important to point out that this is an organized thing, and it began on October 8th, 2023, as part of a highly coordinated effort to terrorize Jews in the diaspora, long before an Israel response.

Also, far-right influencers are partially driving it and using less-significant left-wing accounts as their "Footsoldiers".

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FFS, dude, even if those quotes qualify as CALLING for genocide, yelling offensive things is not an act of genocide. And Israel's conduct in the war does not qualify as genocide, especially as, repeat after me, THEY DID NOT START THIS WAR.

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Benjamin Netanyahu snaps and threatens Lula: “Crossed a Red Line”

https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1759221711403188718

The words of the president of Brazil are shameful and serious. This is about trivializing the Holocaust and trying to harm the Jewish people and Israel's right to defend itself.

Comparing Israel to the Nazi Holocaust and Hitler is crossing a red line. Israel fights for its defense and securing its future until complete victory and it does so while upholding international law.

I decided with Foreign Minister Israel Katz to summon the Brazilian ambassador to Israel for a stern reprimand conversation immediately.

Fed through Google translate

Sounds like Lula was being an anti-Semitic scumbag.  Gotta give the devil his due, more power to Netanyahu for pushing back on Lula’s vile blood libel.

Yeah, this is a red-line diplomatic incident if there ever was one. Netanyahu's honestly being fairly measured here.

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Has to be true (plausibly by orders of magnitude) given American violent crime rates, right? It's not like the insurgency is really very dangerous for ordinary Israelis.

It wasn't until October 7. Based on the comparative populations, that was basically 11 or 12 9/11-sized attacks. It is probably the second biggest terrorist attack in history after 9/11.

Is it similar to Pearl Harbour?

I mean, the best way to describe it is probably the clear casus belli of Pearl Harbor, the shock and horror of 9/11, the viciousness of Beslan, and the scale of the Blitz, which goes a long way towards illustrating why Biden probably actually had very little power to stop an Israeli response.

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I'm deeply saddened and shocked by president Lula's bad faith statement about comparing what Israel is doing in Gaza with Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust, and although I think that even though Netanyahu's government has comitted numerous human rights violations, equating the two things are like comparing apples to oranges.

I'm making an impact statement here: I'm personally breaking the ties with the current government, and from now on I'm moving toward a third way of democratic center in 2026, beyond the PT and Bolsonarism, which are currently two failed models in Brazil. President Lula's third term is being much worse than the previous two terms and in an extremely polarized country like Brazil he is acting like Bozo, disuniting the population and talking a lot of bullsh**t.

Despite this, I don't regret at all having voted and supported him strongly in 2022, and I would certainly vote for him in almost every presidential election since 1989, as I said in a post from September of the last year, but now I want new blood, from someone conciliatory and with modern ideas who can develop my country into something even more fullfilling.

You have to remember that Germany didn’t start building death camps overnight.

Right now, Israel is using demonizing rhetoric to condition its population to believe that Palestinians aren’t human and don’t deserve human rights…

…that Palestinian lives have little or no worth, hence it is okay to kill the Palestinians

That is the very same road that led Germany to the Holocaust.

So no, it’s not the Holocaust, but Israel is heading down the road.

Hamas is well down the road, they just don't have the momentum to accomplish their goals. Israel's response is no worse or more destructive than the Allies' assault against...you guessed it, the Nazis.

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I'm deeply saddened and shocked by president Lula's bad faith statement about comparing what Israel is doing in Gaza with Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust, and although I think that even though Netanyahu's government has comitted numerous human rights violations, equating the two things are like comparing apples to oranges.

I'm making an impact statement here: I'm personally breaking the ties with the current government, and from now on I'm moving toward a third way of democratic center in 2026, beyond the PT and Bolsonarism, which are currently two failed models in Brazil. President Lula's third term is being much worse than the previous two terms and in an extremely polarized country like Brazil he is acting like Bozo, disuniting the population and talking a lot of bullsh**t.

Despite this, I don't regret at all having voted and supported him strongly in 2022, and I would certainly vote for him in almost every presidential election since 1989, as I said in a post from September of the last year, but now I want new blood, from someone conciliatory and with modern ideas who can develop my country into something even more fullfilling.

Lula didn’t lie at all. So much that NOBODY outside Israel is even contesting his statement. Goal scored. If anything he took way too long.

What happens is that different notions and rules are applied based on geography, culture and race.

Holocaust is so traumatic and taboo to this day only because it happened inside Europe borders. You put ethnic cleansing outside those borders and it always gets completely normalized.

When you directly compare these events like Lula did, you actively treat onto the public consciousness a non-white and non-European country with the same standards given to white European countries, like it should be as they aren’t superior to anyone.

As someone who isn’t European and doesn’t benefit from those established structures, Lula stands up for better and equal parameters for everyone. Therefore standing up for Brazil itself as we DON’T have the same kind of privilege.

Luciano Huck describing what goes on in GAZA as a TRAGEDY is what is vomit inducing to me. Like an open admission of what is happening but minimizing it and diminishing people’s lives.

Tragedy is what happens in an accident that is inevitable or a natural disaster. When the action is done actively by humans it’s not a tragedy, but a CRIME.

Many Brazilians often forget of the influence their country has internationally as one of the most important Non-Western countries, alongside India for example. There’s the incorrect normalized notion of being mere bystanders to whatever goes on outside.

What Lula does with this is to normalize calling out Israel actions with the appropriate seriousness that it deserves, using the political weight and prestige he know he has to influence other countries.

When even Brazil doesn’t speak up to what’s moral and right because it doesn’t feel free to do so, that sends the message to smaller south countries they don’t stand a chance.

That’s why countries such as Brazil, India, China, South Africa have the natural responsibility and obligation to be a vessel for the voice of other nations in the South that aren’t able to use it individually. Palestine, is one of those.

It’s traumatic because 6 million people died JFC what’s wrong with you

I see Red Velvet’s point.

Holodomor is a genocide of 5 million Ukrainians, but is isn’t taught in school and is hardly talked about because it didn’t happen in a Western country.

The Holocaust literally did happen in Ukraine as the Nazis spread across Europe.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/brazil-president-recalls-ambassador-israel-talks-local-media-2024-02-19/

Israel should probably begin referring to Lula as a Holocaust denier and cut off diplomatic relations with the country at this point.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/brazil-president-recalls-ambassador-israel-talks-local-media-2024-02-19/

Israel should probably begin referring to Lula as a Holocaust denier and cut off diplomatic relations with the country at this point.

That's inverse logic.

By comparing the genocide of the Palestinians to the Holocaust, he just affirmed the Holocaust.

No, he didn't. The Holocaust killed 6 million Jews and 13 million people overall in a campaign of industrial extermination. What's happening in Gaza is simple urban conflict in a densely populated location, similar to the fight the Allies conducted against the Nazis.

Therefore, if Lula believes the Holocaust is comparable to Israel's response to Hamas' slaughter, then he must be saying that the Holocaust was not actually a genocide. Ergo, he's a Holocaust denier.

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Steven Spielberg

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3gVAnuJUFV/

The guy is looking to make a documentary on the October 7 rapes, murders and kidnappings.

Yep. A particularly odious Corbynist was trying to gin up a boycott against him when news of this first broke.

I don't think it can be understated just how much this hardened the spines of liberal Jews worldwide. We get it that they not only expect us not to fight back, but to stand and salute at our own people's murder, or it's back to being unpersons. And no, that's not acceptable and we'd rather go down fighting.

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https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1759918321720312055?t=JnW3C5n09zyPCRWt...

Lula isn't backing down. I agree, he shouldn't retract it. Was it hyperbolic? Sure. Pot meet kettle, Israel.

Hope Israel cuts off all diplomatic relations with Brazil and sends the personnel home on a slow boat. And this is the moderate response to a country led by a Holocaust denier.

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What is Israel's plan after the current campaign ends?

No home, no work, no education, no health care makes for a perfect breeding ground for terrorists.

Or is the immediate plan still to expel Palestinians from Gaza?

The plan seems to be to permanently occupy a buffer zone near the border, massively fortified as a sort of DMZ to prevent any further incursions with extreme prejudice. The remaining 90% or so of Gaza will likely be rebuilt by the world at large, with little involvement from Israel, but the effectiveness of that will heavily depend on what Egypt does about their border.

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https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1759918321720312055?t=JnW3C5n09zyPCRWt...
Lula isn't backing down. I agree, he shouldn't retract it. Was it hyperbolic? Sure. Pot meet kettle, Israel.

Hope Israel cuts off all diplomatic relations with Brazil and sends the personnel home on a slow boat. And this is the moderate response to a country led by a Holocaust denier.

Only one country has a massive death toll on its hands, and it isn't Brazil. If any country should be roundly condemned internationally and reigned in, again, it isn't Brazil.

10/7 was the clearest casus belli for total war since Pearl Harbor, and there is no force on Earth that could force Israel to coexist with the genocidal Hamas rape gang again.

Also, Lula is still a Holocaust denier.

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bombed Iraqi synagogues to force Iraqi Jews to emigrate

But AltorBotox told me there was just no way Israelis could in any way be responsible for antisemitic incidents overseas. Never mind the Israeli kid who just a few years ago called in bomb threats to like 50 American JCCs causing a nationwide panic.

Yet Israel doesn't benefit from antisemitism. Sure. Their entire MO is being a "safe space" for the world's Jews. The more inhospitable the rest of the world appears to Jewish people, the more Israel benefits.

I mean, this Israeli government had nothing to do with that terrorist attack, so I'm not really sure what your point is...

Also, the very article he links to states that it's never been proven Israel was behind it!

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At least 104 people killed and hundreds injured in Gaza while waiting for food, Palestinian officials say

At least 104 people died and 760 were injured in a chaotic incident where IDF troops opened fire as hungry Palestinian civilians were gathering around food aid trucks, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza. CNN is unable to independently confirm these numbers.

Civilians had swarmed around newly arrived aid trucks in the hope to get food, when Israeli tanks and drones started shooting at the people in Haroun Al Rasheed Street in western Gaza City, in the Sheikh Ajleen area.

An Israeli official told CNN IDF troops did use live fire on people surrounding aid truck as "the crowd approached the forces in a manner that posed a threat to the troops, who responded to the threat with live fire. The incident is under review."

The aid trucks tried to escape the area, accidentally ramming others and causing further deaths and injuries, eyewitnesses tell CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/webview/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-02-29-24/index.html

Israel quickly released footage of the incident from aerial drones, I think. It's a complete cluster****. The odds are only a small fragment of the casualties are from IDF fire, but that won't matter. There's got to be a better way to distribute the aid than to have the actual people Hamas is at war with doing it.

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Biden's response to this all since October has been an unmitigated disaster. His confident proclamation this week that a truce was coming ended up as a nothingness and he's still unwilling to act like the leader of tge superpower he is. He's protecting Netanyahu while killing his reelection chances

 Netanyahu definitely wants Trump back in office.

Which makes Biden’s support all the more absurd.

Though to be honest, we shouldn’t be surprised. Biden’s always had a lot of views on foreign policy in line with the Beltway Blob, including being reflexively and staunchly pro-Israel, and he had already expanded upon Trump-Kushner’s so-called Abraham Accords long before October 7th. Furthermore, he allowed himself to be bullied by Saudi Arabia’s Son-King, who now enjoys a level of power and impunity that he didn’t even have under Trump. So much for making the Kingdom “a global pariah.”

I guess Biden got scared by the deranged freakout over Obama’s Iran deal by Israel, the Gulf monarchies, and their lobbyist sh-itheads in Washington, as well as the intense backlash over his own administration’s Afghanistan withdrawal  (which was admittedly a humiliating and horrifying fiasco—no sense in denying that). Still, as unsurprising as it might be, it’s depressing as it is, it’s depressing that both of America’s major political parties continue to double down on the same indefensible and frankly, stupid policies in the Middle East. And obviously a Trump comeback would be even worse—considerably worse. Ugh.

The problem for Biden here is that all credible alternatives to Bibi have the exact same Gaza policy - total war until the hostages are returned and Hamas is out of power. There are very few ways for him to pivot to being against Netanyahu here without endangering his relations with Israel as a whole.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Biden's response to this all since October has been an unmitigated disaster. His confident proclamation this week that a truce was coming ended up as a nothingness and he's still unwilling to act like the leader of tge superpower he is. He's protecting Netanyahu while killing his reelection chances

 Netanyahu definitely wants Trump back in office.

Which makes Biden’s support all the more absurd.

Though to be honest, we shouldn’t be surprised. Biden’s always had a lot of views on foreign policy in line with the Beltway Blob, including being reflexively and staunchly pro-Israel, and he had already expanded upon Trump-Kushner’s so-called Abraham Accords long before October 7th. Furthermore, he allowed himself to be bullied by Saudi Arabia’s Son-King, who now enjoys a level of power and impunity that he didn’t even have under Trump. So much for making the Kingdom “a global pariah.”

I guess Biden got scared by the deranged freakout over Obama’s Iran deal by Israel, the Gulf monarchies, and their lobbyist sh-itheads in Washington, as well as the intense backlash over his own administration’s Afghanistan withdrawal  (which was admittedly a humiliating and horrifying fiasco—no sense in denying that). Still, as unsurprising as it might be, it’s depressing as it is, it’s depressing that both of America’s major political parties continue to double down on the same indefensible and frankly, stupid policies in the Middle East. And obviously a Trump comeback would be even worse—considerably worse. Ugh.

The problem for Biden here is that all credible alternatives to Bibi have the exact same Gaza policy - total war until the hostages are returned and Hamas is out of power. There are very few ways for him to pivot to being against Netanyahu here without endangering his relations with Israel as a whole.

The best option is General Benny Gantz, a centrist currently leading in the polls. The problem is the majority of the Israeli electorate supports right wing parties. Gantz’s party might be polling the best, but the centrist and liberal parties are only polling at 45%. Even if you include Arab parties (which will never happen) you are at 48%

Yair Lapid and Benny Gantz were able to form a big tent coalition in remove Netanyahu in 2021 by working with righting politics like Saar and Bennett. As you can imagine the coalition was short lived

Oh, absolutely, and there's likely to be tons of daylight between Gantz and Netanyahu on the West Bank in particular - which is why Biden's actions seem to be focusing on Likud's misconduct there rather than anything in Gaza.

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https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1764048158529839601?t=Al33a1-mghL2u9hZ0TfvxA...

Why would Biden cause an international incident over the words of a fairly infamous activist and troll who has failed to get any actual position in government? This is like asking why France didn't pull out of NATO over Rush Limbaugh insulting them.

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Harris calling for a ceasefire is surely going to backfire among independents and moderates.

Nah, anyone who listens to the text of her actual comments will see she's putting the onus on Hamas to agree.

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https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/04/kamala-harris-israel-idf-gaza-catastrophe-ceasefire-hamas-hostage-deal

Harris is truly awful

No, she's not. Biden has been trying to broker a legit ceasefire as part of a hostage deal for weeks now. Hamas is the roadblock.

When leftists are screeching "Ceasefire", they mean to put Israel under occupation so it can't respond to Hamas. The only actual successful ceasefire was brokered by the Biden admin. until Hamas broke it.

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Hamas is responsible for the deaths on both sides of the conflict and this is a deliberate strategy on their part.

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Waleed Shahid is a jerkoff.  This is an extremely blatant push poll.  "Experts have said" something that isn't true.  "Attacks on the people of Gaza" is an obviously biased way to frame a war.

I just know we're going to keep getting this annoying manufactured push-poll result shoved at us from now until the end of the war though, because that's what progressives do.

Yeah, that's one of the most blatant push polls I've seen in a very long time. The polls on this war continue to be all over the place.

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In any event, ceasefire talks have ended without a deal. Hamas still wants a permanent ceasefire and full Israeli withdrawal.

AKA, total surrender before hostage negotiations can begin. Needless to say, total non-starter.

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I can't pretend to understand much about Israel politics, but it's hard to see how this is even close to a guarantee. Why couldn't the polity that selected Natanyahu in a time of relative peace replace him with someone as bad or worse?

Gantz is only slightly better than Netanyahu - he's pro-settlements (albeit just in the existing areas) and wants to retain large parts of the West Bank.

Really, as of 10-7, every political position to the left of that is beyond dead for the next few years if not decades.