Labor Party presidential primary

[Adam Griffin]

What makes people think Bacon King is in this for Atlasia as opposed to his inane little pleasure at poking holes in the game?

Let's Keep It Positive, Hagrid.

[Adam Griffin]

The difference is, I'm not publishing a 2,000-word tabloid piece full of bullshit accusations that stretch the truth on a whole series of fabricated points.

Which is why you come across as an insatiable twat in the process, Hagrid, because you are trying to be both an asshole and serious. Pick one, and best stick to the real issues, lest we yet again define them for you due to the lack of ability of you guys to ever run on something of actual substance. This isn't a pretty color for you.

Did you give Inks your password? All I'm waiting for now is the fifty follow-up questions.

[Adam Griffin]

I don't have any other questions, Griffin, because honestly, people know better. I've had presents falling into my lap from folks in your camp almost every day for the last week. I'm not calling you guys out for being "avowed Laborites." I'm calling you out on a point of contention that is serious for people across almost every party in this game—or I wouldn't be getting the "please find us an out" messages.

Glad to know that it's your lap that still controls that hemisphere: at least you're being honest. It also comes as no surprise that some would not have the left or Labor's best interests at heart and would sell it to the highest bidder in a heartbeat. This is Atlasia, of course.

You can think I'm an asshole for pushing the point all you want, but the fact is, a big swath of this country does care about Rim Job, and a big swath of this country will not want to elect a president who goes out of his way to disrupt the game. If that's a controversial point to make, then this country has much deeper problems than we thought.

Well thank goodness I can still think that! The fact of the matter is that Bacon King has more legislative experience in the tip of his pecker than most people in this game could ever hope to possess. As President, I am sure that he would be innately focused on the act of actual governance and would have many other aspects of the game to tend to during his Presidency. He understands the laws and has used that knowledge in the past to further the quality of the game. You can attempt to argue that Rimjob accomplished nothing or was detrimental, but guess what? Most of the dialogue in this game over the last three months has been centered around that and how cruddy the regional system (that is worshiped with ideological fervor by most of the right) has become. It has accomplished many things: the Senate appears to be headed toward regional consolidation as we speak, for instance.

Bacon King has served as a one-man system of checks and balances in this game. That terrible excuse of a constitution in the Pacific and the resulting acts are prime examples of what happens (and what needs to happen) whenever we as citizens, regions and a country allow for such sub-par governance. When people write half-ass laws and constitutions, we all get half-ass governance. You can try to shoulder the blame on us or whomever you wish with what the current actions in the Pacific are (even though it's solely NM-AM's actions now), but the fact remains that they are all brought on by a terrible constitution that nobody cared to read in the first place. Bacon King's attempts to rectify the situation would have produced a more friendly result had the Supreme Court not issued a biased ruling. Now the region appears to be stuck with that terrible governing document and more people continue to pour into a region that cannot be saved and has for years been a zombie bastion for various power-brokers who resided there.

Statute, constitutional law and any other form of governing documents should be subject to poking and prodding in order to improve the quality of this game's policy-making. When people actually have to worry about their legislation and proposals being used to someone else's advantage, then it tends to produce a higher quality of discussion, deliberation and statute. Do you think that any piece of legislation that I crafted in the IDS wasn't explicitly considered in each little detail, so as to not leave loopholes for exploitation in such a polarized and competitive region? Do your jobs and do them well, I say.

The fact that you would insult Bacon King's expertise - seeing as how he is one of the most brilliant legal scholars in this game - shows that the Federalists continue to pursue an empty approach to governance. No clearly defined policy, no legitimate points to be made about the opposition, no real skill at trolling and no real fun. The right only reacts to what we do and have done because they have no real ideas of their own. Please stop hating because we tend to do it all better.

Also, Nix knew about Rimjob and he was elected, so your final point is not valid, Hagrid.

[Adam Griffin]

I have never talked to Bacon King, but from what I have seen he is an intelligent and humorous poster. That being said, I have been part of this game for more than two years now and seen BK in various Atlasian offices and functions. Unfortunately, the issue of inactivity has come up on more than one occasion during this time. While I have no doubts that BK would be more than smart enough for the job, I honestly don't believe that he will be as active as necessary for four consecutive months.

>concerned about Bacon King's level of activity
>supporting Spamage

If you had been part of Atlasia for a longer period of time, you would see that the two situations aren't quite comparable. Just ask some of the older players.

Yeah, you guys really don't want to bring up the issue of activity with your presumptive candidate (unless your party brass is organizing yet another primary coup like they did in June). You're not going to get away with painting a rosy picture of why your candidate gets to excuse away his inactivity and demonize the other side for the same issue.

Again, why can't the Federalists articulate something of their own, rather than react to and attack the opposition? That's the real question that voters should be asking.

[Adam Griffin]

I have never talked to Bacon King, but from what I have seen he is an intelligent and humorous poster. That being said, I have been part of this game for more than two years now and seen BK in various Atlasian offices and functions. Unfortunately, the issue of inactivity has come up on more than one occasion during this time. While I have no doubts that BK would be more than smart enough for the job, I honestly don't believe that he will be as active as necessary for four consecutive months.

>concerned about Bacon King's level of activity
>supporting Spamage

If you had been part of Atlasia for a longer period of time, you would see that the two situations aren't quite comparable. Just ask some of the older players.

Yeah, you guys really don't want to bring up the issue of activity with your presumptive candidate (unless your party brass is organizing yet another primary coup like they did in June). You're not going to get away with painting a rosy picture of why your candidate gets to excuse away his inactivity and demonize the other side for the same issue.

Again, why can't the Federalists articulate something of their own, rather than react to and attack the opposition? That's the real question that voters should be asking.

I would kindly like to remind you that it was your side that brought up the issue of activity and used it in mean-spirited attacks against Spamage. That's why I find it kind of ironic that we are not allowed to raise the issue of BK's activity levels in the past. As I said, ask someone who has been around for a couple of years if you want to know more. I hope BK is right, though.

Mmhmm, mmhmm, mmhmm. So by your own logic, you're no different than TNF as you're being just as nasty. Notice how none of the candidates in this race have initiated the discussion of inactivity thus far? Candidates can't control what their constituents say or ask.

And in case I wasn't heard:

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[Adam Griffin]

I have never talked to Bacon King, but from what I have seen he is an intelligent and humorous poster. That being said, I have been part of this game for more than two years now and seen BK in various Atlasian offices and functions. Unfortunately, the issue of inactivity has come up on more than one occasion during this time. While I have no doubts that BK would be more than smart enough for the job, I honestly don't believe that he will be as active as necessary for four consecutive months.

>concerned about Bacon King's level of activity
>supporting Spamage

If you had been part of Atlasia for a longer period of time, you would see that the two situations aren't quite comparable. Just ask some of the older players.

Yeah, you guys really don't want to bring up the issue of activity with your presumptive candidate (unless your party brass is organizing yet another primary coup like they did in June). You're not going to get away with painting a rosy picture of why your candidate gets to excuse away his inactivity and demonize the other side for the same issue.

Again, why can't the Federalists articulate something of their own, rather than react to and attack the opposition? That's the real question that voters should be asking.

I would kindly like to remind you that it was your side that brought up the issue of activity and used it in mean-spirited attacks against Spamage. That's why I find it kind of ironic that we are not allowed to raise the issue of BK's activity levels in the past. As I said, ask someone who has been around for a couple of years if you want to know more. I hope BK is right, though.

Mmhmm, mmhmm, mmhmm. So by your own logic, you're no different than TNF as you're being just as nasty. Notice how none of the candidates in this race have initiated the discussion of inactivity thus far? Candidates can't control what their constituents say or ask.

And in case I wasn't heard:

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You think TNF is nasty?

If you want an answer to your question, compare TNF's post in Spamages thread to my post in this thread.

So if it's dressed up to appear as polite - all the while containing the same, nasty undertones as any other comment made by anyone else - then it's OK? At least TNF is honest, as opposed to your dog-whistling attempts to achieve the same type of rancor in this discussion.


ZuWo is one of the most partisan individuals in this game, one of the big brains behind Federalist operations, and he does a relatively good job at keeping that under wraps. He knows that if he articulates anything in which he truly believes, that both he and his party would never be elected to higher office.

I'll keep trying:

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[Adam Griffin]

Yes, I do believe that bringing up an issue in a polite way is very different from making an insulting comment. I think it's common sense.

As for the second part of your post, I sometimes wish I was a big brain in the Federalist Party but I'm not really. Also, if you look at the bills I've introduced in the Mideast you will see that I have never hidden my views. There you will also find the answer to your incredibly pressing question in bold print. In fact, Federalists have plenty of ideas. Look at the regions, the regional governments, and the Senate.

What Labor Has Accomplished Just in the Past Two Months - Just in the Senate:

Prison Reform Act of 2013
Protecting Worker Privacy Act
Amendment to the Labor Rights Act
Amendment to the Student Loan Interest Rate Fairness Act
The It's Not Up to You Act
Death with Dignity Act

It's really not that difficult to articulate what you stand for, ZuWo. Don't be coy and tell us to "go look for it ourselves". You should be ready to defend it and cite it, if in fact there is anything to be defended and cited. So yet again:

Again, why can't the Federalists articulate something of their own, rather than react to and attack the opposition? That's the real question that voters should be asking.

Napoleon is the only Presidential candidate in this race who I think makes a passing grade in terms of activity - both Spamage and Bacon King have certain weaknesses in this area. I think that in this election, more than in any recent ones, how active of a campaign the candidates run will play a major factor.

I am a bit confused over the fact that Griffin resigned as GM just recently due to RL time constraints, yet jumped into the VP race not too long after. No maliciousness in this, as his activity record has been fantastic (especially as GM), though I do hope he can address this at some point in the campaign.

This is a valid question and one that I expected to be asked, so I'll be happy to answer. The fact is that I explained exactly why I could no longer serve as GM - in reality, the duties of a GM are much more pressing than that of a VP candidate - and that rationale was 100% the reason.

I'm in the midst of a real-life campaign and that will keep my schedule limited until the first week of November. This is also the same week that the next President/Vice-President will be inaugurated, at which point my activity will not be hindered. I'm also confident that in my limited capacity, I will be able to contribute the necessary amount of time to this campaign in order to adequately address the issues.

I did not resign as GM so that I could run for VP. Frankly, being GM is far more fun, I'd say. I was asked by Bacon King to be his VP nominee several days after my announced resignation, so that is simply the way things turned out.

[Adam Griffin]

But Griffin, your post makes clear you don't have the slightest interest in hearing what the Federalists stand for and have achieved. On the contrary, you're only interested in scoring a political point that isn't there. So why should I bother with you? If you're really interested in having your questions answered, you know very well where to look.

Indeed, I'd much rather continue to lay out my and my party's plans directly to the voters, be it in my campaign thread or via PMs. This has worked well so far and will, hopefully, continue to work in the future.

I'm sorry, but you misunderstand me. The voters - for once - want to hear a Federalist articulate their own policies and accomplishments to the voters of this game in public. You can't even be bothered to cite a single piece of legislation from your own record or any of your companions. Why is that? Have you guys done nothing, or are you ashamed of your stances on issues? The people would like to know.

If you fail to do so, then I - as always - will draw the necessary light to it on the public front and behind the scenes.

You will not get away with defining yourselves in private: you will do it in public or we will do it for you.

[Adam Griffin]

I think it is a bit unfair to be hostile to the idea of Griffin stepping down from the GM position only for him to run for the Vice Presidency. Speaking as both a former GM and VP, the stresses of the GM-ship are extreme, and the Vice Presidency is really only much of a job twice a term or so. I really don't see any reason to doubt Griffin's potential activity as a Vice President.

[Adam Griffin]

I can confirm that Adam Griffin's departure from serving as Game Moderator was planned well in advance of his agreeing to join this ticket - we discussed the matter well before his official announcement - and I understood that there was a high likelihood that he would need to leave toward the end of the summer even prior to that.

Thanks for confirming.


I'd also like to take the time to summarize this post's dialogue for those who haven't or don't feel like reading through its entirety:

Federalists: "WE DON'T LIKE WHAT LABOR STANDS FOR/INACTIVE BK AND GRIFF'S VILE TACTICS"
Us: Please articulate one point or policy issue on which you stand."
Federalists: "NO"
ZuWo: "WE GET TO POINT FINGERS BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE DID"
Us: "What do you stand for, Federalists? What do you stand for, ZuWo?"
ZuWo: "LOOK IT UP"
Us: "Tell us what you stand for, guys."
ZuWo/Federalists: "NO"
Us: "C'mon, tell us!"
ZuWo/Federalists: "NO, LOOK IT UP"
Us: "Don't wanna show us a link to one single policy achievement or platform that you've accomplished or drafted?"
ZuWo/Federalists: 'NO, LOOK IT UP"
Us: "Where can we look it up?"
ZuWo/Federalists: 'WE CONDUCT ALL OF THIS VIA PM"
Us: "OK, then."

[Adam Griffin]

Oh no. That bill died in the hands of the Federalists, was sponsored later by Nix, heavily amended and passed unanimously.

The point of this isn't to say that Federalists have done nothing. It's to say that you guys never talk about it not want to talk about it. It only took the better part of 40 posts to get one Federalist to at least claim a belief or a piece of legislation. I'm amazed at how much resistance is always met whenever we ask you guys to talk about your beliefs, ideas and achievements. You guys resist even the discussion of good ones.

[Adam Griffin]

And you say "heavily amended" in a negative fashion it seems, well Nix even told me on IRC the original bill had all of the necessary elements, is how I believe he phrased it.

It wasn't intended as negative - it is to say that the bill that emerged and was passed in the end was a great deal different than the one you and clarence had initially proposed.

[Adam Griffin]

I think it is a bit unfair to be hostile to the idea of Griffin stepping down from the GM position only for him to run for the Vice Presidency. Speaking as both a former GM and VP, the stresses of the GM-ship are extreme, and the Vice Presidency is really only much of a job twice a term or so. I really don't see any reason to doubt Griffin's potential activity as a Vice President.

Once upon a time you were PPT. You disappeared or something...I don't remember all of the details. But I know that the Vice President, who I can't remember at the moment, flat out refused to manage the Senate or make a single post in the fantasy elections section. So I do think there is value in wanting to avoid that sort of situation.

As a Vice-Presidential candidate, I make the promise here and now that if elected: I will not refuse to manage the Senate using all constitutional and procedural tools at my disposal and that I will not refuse to post on the FE boards.