SENATE BILL: Regional Legislative Petitions Act (law'd)

[Napoleon]

Citizens have enough trouble using the simpler approach to this already available.

[Napoleon]

Nay

[Napoleon]

Nay

Phew! I was afraid this was going to pass without you opposing it!

Really? I have a history of voting against completely useless bills.

[Napoleon]

Really? I have a history of voting against completely useless bills.

Wow, this is truly amusing, Sir.

You said recently that doing what your constituents wants you to do is your first concern as Northeast Senator, their very representative.

You said so during debate on National Initiative, claiming Northeast voters are against it, so you voted against. Well,  apparently NI passed in Northeast (like in every other region). Conclusion? You better be careful when you're claiming you're speaking on behalf of your constituents in general without doing a proper consultation.

But regarding this bill, it's all about making a Senator carrying out an expectations of his very constituents. So what's the problem? Is Marokai being a sponsor the real problem? Or you're just embarrassing yourself again while high?

Passed? Uh no. Plus those who spoke to me were mostly against. Why do you care anyway? You aren't even in my region. If my Constituents want something, they can ask. I'm not going to need a stupid law for that and if I don't feel like introducing something I wont do it. I doubt anyone will use this at all. I have enough trouble getting PM responses. I would be insulted if some asshole started petitioning me.

[Napoleon]

No, because my constituents aren't petitioning me. I also expect they won't and that other region's Senators won't get petitioned. However, it's easier to ask me for a service than to try and petition me with 25% signatures. I don't even know if that'd be possible in my region.

Point is, I've never had a constituent ask me to introduce a bill without me approaching them about it first. While I'd like to see that change, this isn't the way to go about. As I saaid, there are simpler methods to use already available.

What does this solve? Are regional Senators ignoring their constituents? Can those people not use the Initiative process? This bill is totally useless. If a Senator can't do his job on his own he shouldn't get voted out. The lack of enforcement also means I will ignore any and all petitions.

[Napoleon]

But I'd suggest rather than jumping to conclusions, you take my criticism of this bill for what it is:  Criticism of this bill.  I'm not going to blanket veto all of your bills.  And I won't do it to spite you.  I will only do it if I think it is a bad bill or it needs to be reworked.

Here's the problem: Many of the complaints that come from you or your side are petty and difficult to indulge. Several of you vote in a bloc almost constantly. And when you and Napoleon and others make up your mind? The only time you actually change it is from Aye to Nay. If I actually thought I could win you over by spending time here actually arguing in this bill's favor (which I've done multiple times up to this point) I would do so. I know that I can't.

You've made up your mind. Napoleon has made up his mind. Not only on this bill, but several others, and it will be like this in the future. Your positions are always the unmovable ones. You are the one that always must be compromised to, and you are the ones that always do the shooting down. It is frustrating and completely impossible to actually navigate through.

There are people in this body that are interested in, and moved by, debate. I am among them. I don't think some others are.

I see a few untruthful statemewnts and a ridiculous attempt at trying to use the fallacy of guilt by association.

[Napoleon]

The idea that this bill wastes anything is preposterous. Regions should have a say over their Senators, and Senators should be forced to some extent to be kept in touch with their constituents. We have had plenty of instances of inactive Senators that get elected purely on flukes and do nothing, or Senators that don't perform very well even if they are active. We have a citizenry that feels completely disconnected from the lawmaking activities of Atlasia at-large and could use any excuse to get active on any level, and aside from this last session, this Senate could certainly uses plenty of reasons to actually legislate more.

We got way more done before you came, trust me. You must have been a citizen "disconnected from lawmaking activity" in order to make such a preposterous, egotistical statement.

[Napoleon]

Kalwejt, you might notice all I've done is dismiss Marokai's insults and lack of self-awareness.

[Napoleon]

The idea that this bill wastes anything is preposterous. Regions should have a say over their Senators, and Senators should be forced to some extent to be kept in touch with their constituents. We have had plenty of instances of inactive Senators that get elected purely on flukes and do nothing, or Senators that don't perform very well even if they are active. We have a citizenry that feels completely disconnected from the lawmaking activities of Atlasia at-large and could use any excuse to get active on any level, and aside from this last session, this Senate could certainly uses plenty of reasons to actually legislate more.

We got way more done before you came, trust me. You must have been a citizen "disconnected from lawmaking activity" in order to make such a preposterous, egotistical statement.

It's always nice when you make statements so patently absurd that I don't even need to seriously respond to them. I would just politely suggest you take a look at my history around here before saying that I have ever been "disconnected from lawmaking."

So you were simply lying to stroke your ego?

[Napoleon]

The idea that this bill wastes anything is preposterous. Regions should have a say over their Senators, and Senators should be forced to some extent to be kept in touch with their constituents. We have had plenty of instances of inactive Senators that get elected purely on flukes and do nothing, or Senators that don't perform very well even if they are active. We have a citizenry that feels completely disconnected from the lawmaking activities of Atlasia at-large and could use any excuse to get active on any level, and aside from this last session, this Senate could certainly uses plenty of reasons to actually legislate more.

We got way more done before you came, trust me. You must have been a citizen "disconnected from lawmaking activity" in order to make such a preposterous, egotistical statement.

It's always nice when you make statements so patently absurd that I don't even need to seriously respond to them. I would just politely suggest you take a look at my history around here before saying that I have ever been "disconnected from lawmaking."

So you were simply lying to stroke your ego?

Seriously, man, what the hell? Marokai simply stated an obvious fact that Atlasia had, during it's history, a lot of inactive Senators or those who weren't active enough.

Are you going to question that obvious historical truth? Or you think he was refeering to you. Well, in second face, please understand once for all the world is not resolving around you.

Claiming that this session has been more productive (surely saying that because he's a Senator now) is untruthful considering the two past sessions where objectively more has been accomplished and even debated. Marokai may want to feel like his presence has revived a dead Senate or something like that but it just isn't the case.

[Napoleon]

I don't understand how you got "This Senate is awesome because of me!" out of "People on the regional level feel disconnected, and we can give them more reason to be involved."

Hmm I don't know do you want to explain that last sentence I quoted because it seems to say that other than this session the Senate could use plenty of reasons to legislate more. So what changed for this session from last session?

[Napoleon]

I don't understand how you got "This Senate is awesome because of me!" out of "People on the regional level feel disconnected, and we can give them more reason to be involved."

Hmm I don't know do you want to explain that last sentence I quoted because it seems to say that other than this session the Senate could use plenty of reasons to legislate more. So what changed for this session from last session?

The last session kicked things in gear, but the session before that, for several sessions, was a wasteland of legislative accomplishment. Also: more legislation = more Senate activity. Connect the other dots however you like but I fail to see how you could possibly interpret me arguing in favor of engaging the citizens more directly on legislative issues as me taking credit for Senate activity. Turn the hostility down to about a 4 or so.

So are you talking about this session or the previous one? Choose your words better. You have already made enough false statements in this thread so surely you understand why I expect you to say things like that.

The only actual reason for perceived activity increases is the election of PPT bgwah, who is committed to moving the Senate along. We haven't had a shortage of things to debate even before then.

[Napoleon]

The idea that this bill wastes anything is preposterous. Regions should have a say over their Senators, and Senators should be forced to some extent to be kept in touch with their constituents. We have had plenty of instances of inactive Senators that get elected purely on flukes and do nothing, or Senators that don't perform very well even if they are active. We have a citizenry that feels completely disconnected from the lawmaking activities of Atlasia at-large and could use any excuse to get active on any level, and aside from this last session, this Senate could certainly uses plenty of reasons to actually legislate more.

We got way more done before you came, trust me. You must have been a citizen "disconnected from lawmaking activity" in order to make such a preposterous, egotistical statement.

It's always nice when you make statements so patently absurd that I don't even need to seriously respond to them. I would just politely suggest you take a look at my history around here before saying that I have ever been "disconnected from lawmaking."

So you were simply lying to stroke your ego?

Seriously, man, what the hell? Marokai simply stated an obvious fact that Atlasia had, during it's history, a lot of inactive Senators or those who weren't active enough.

Are you going to question that obvious historical truth? Or you think he was refeering to you. Well, in second case, please understand once for all the world is not resolving around you.

Claiming that this session has been more productive (surely saying that because he's a Senator now) is untruthful considering the two past sessions where objectively more has been accomplished and even debated. Marokai may want to feel like his presence has revived a dead Senate or something like that but it just isn't the case.

Well, you've become quite agressive since Marokai joined us in the Senate.

FTR, I didn't support Marokai and I campaigned for his opponent, but I'm not going to continue fighting once we're working together.

Since you seem to be totally consumed with your personal dislike toward him and since you're letting that feeling dominate everything, ask yourself who's more responsible for this session being, according to your words (and I don't think I can agree) "less productive"? Do we really need this drama?

That said, I found Marokai ready to work together on issues, while I can't say the same about you.

Marokai can lie but the world ends if I get a little agitated by it? Yeah, I think I get it dude.

Here's the problem: Many of the complaints that come from you or your side are petty and difficult to indulge. Several of you vote in a bloc almost constantly. And when you and Napoleon and others make up your mind? The only time you actually change it is from Aye to Nay. If I actually thought I could win you over by spending time here actually arguing in this bill's favor (which I've done multiple times up to this point) I would do so. I know that I can't.

You've made up your mind. Napoleon has made up his mind. Not only on this bill, but several others, and it will be like this in the future. Your positions are always the unmovable ones. You are the one that always must be compromised to, and you are the ones that always do the shooting down. It is frustrating and completely impossible to actually navigate through.

There are people in this body that are interested in, and moved by, debate. I am among them. I don't think some others are.

I used this post as an example. Lies or falsehoods are in bold.

[Napoleon]

Veto this if you want to, Snowguy. But it's goddamn petty of you to do so for a bill that is so uncontroversial and so peripheral and so optional. The way which you and Napoleon treat these things with such a fire and brimstone attitude is a hilarious overreaction.

The idea that I'm stubborn to changes on my bills is also objectively untrue. It is a lie. It is nothing but a lie. Look at everything I've proposed here that we've debated so far. I have compromised and accepted amendments on nearly all of them!

The empowerment Amendment, specifically, was rewritten by Duke and I to suit Napoleon! I offered to accept Bgwah's compromises on that bill. On the shell corporations act, I accepted compromises from Yankee. On the wage bill, that Bgwah wrote, I stood in the way of no amendments to it. On the national initiative system, I accepted Bgwah's compromised terms for getting something on the ballot. The caucus Act that we passed, passed because I accepted Bgwah's revisions. On the ratification regionalization Amendment, I accepted Yankee's amendment to slightly restrict options to the regions, even if I didn't want to do that myself.

When people opposed my ideas, I reached out to them in asking if there was any way I could get their votes. Several times, I would get a response that says "No, under no circumstances will I vote for this." Who, exactly is stubborn here? Perhaps you don't know. Perhaps it's because you don't hang around these parts very much. But spreading obvious, checkable falsehoods is over the line.

I was overwhelmingly supportive of the changes to the amendment that took the Napoleon Report's finding into account.

[Napoleon]

Snowguy, if you really want to start more active period of your, until now pretty unimpressive, presidency by vetoing a harmless but potentially useful bill and facing quite possible overturn, be our guest. I think you are wasting your political capital that can be used in better way.

Defending Ben's lack of activity while trying to smear the President with such claims? Why, Kal?

[Napoleon]

Snowguy, if you really want to start more active period of your, until now pretty unimpressive, presidency by vetoing a harmless but potentially useful bill and facing quite possible overturn, be our guest. I think you are wasting your political capital that can be used in better way.

Defending Ben's lack of activity while trying to smear the President with such claims? Why, Kal?

Wow, we are using big words again.

The Presidency is little more important than SoEA. Until recently, all Snowguy was doing was just signing and vetoing bills. Presidency is about something more.

And it's not a smear. I understand each presidency needs some time to really start. I was a part of three diffrent administrations and I know how it works. And I'm glad he now got involved directly in debate, as much as I may disagree. And I hope it'll stay this way.

He has been involved in the Senate's work. Only the right wing talking points suggest otherwise.

[Napoleon]

Snowguy, if you really want to start more active period of your, until now pretty unimpressive, presidency by vetoing a harmless but potentially useful bill and facing quite possible overturn, be our guest. I think you are wasting your political capital that can be used in better way.

Defending Ben's lack of activity while trying to smear the President with such claims? Why, Kal?

Wow, we are using big words again.

The Presidency is little more important than SoEA. Until recently, all Snowguy was doing was just signing and vetoing bills. Presidency is about something more.

And it's not a smear. I understand each presidency needs some time to really start. I was a part of three diffrent administrations and I know how it works. And I'm glad he now got involved directly in debate, as much as I may disagree. And I hope it'll stay this way.

He has been involved in the Senate's work. Only the right wing talking points suggest otherwise.

So now I'm right wing. Nice to learn new things.

You're sure embracing they RPP talking points lately. Hopefully Snowguy's post brings you back down to earth.