SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[DaleCooper]

Our God IS an Awesome God!

This decision is only ging to drive younger people further and further away from religion. You do realise that?

Four people to date have recommended this, none of which have a history of caring what God might thing enough to change their mind on an issue.  I take these assessments with a grain of salt.  

I can assure you that God's reputation is in the toilet, especially among younger people in this country, and it's "Christians" who have put it there. Prominent Christians in this country made the decision a while back to whore themselves and their faith out for worldly influence, and because of that sin, Christianity in the US is now often seen as a brand or cultural identity rather than a genuine faith. And that's a reputation that all Christians, even the good ones, have to deal with now.

Christians have forgotten what they're here for, and that's to serve others and lead people to Christ. It's not to save the world themselves through political action. Look at Trump, one of the men most responsible for this repeal. He's a hell-bound man. Trump is 76 and will soon die, and the "Christians" who have been kissing his ass for the last few years have never once bothered to attempt to lead that man to Christ. Even worse, they're willing to publicly pretend that he's Christian because they need his influence and power. They're fine with him and his devotees burning in hell if it means they can get some more political power to push whatever their next issue is. It's goddamn disgusting. How can you possibly expect people who don't already agree with you to take anything you say related to God seriously?

I've heard this from you already.  We agree on some subjects, but not this one.

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Proverbs 1:7, KJV.  The word "fool" has a powerful meaning in Scripture, implying someone who is both unreasonable and unteachable.  If people are beginning to think that maybe they're not on God's Side on this issue, that is all to the good.  I hope their discomfort grows to the point to where they cry out to God, who is lovingly waiting for them to come.

That has nothing to do with what I said.

Let the reader decide.  I'm sorry that my religious convictions didn't lead me to vote the way you'd like me to, but my reasoning is far more consistent and Biblical than those who argue that a Biblical Christian ought to have voted for Biden. 

The Biden Administration has unleashed the Forces of Mordor against the church.  They are actively anti-Christian, not just passively.  Voting is a choice between two (2) individuals, not an endorsement of that candidate's every issue position.  I have no regrets as to my 2016 and 2020 votes. 

I'm not talking about voting, I'm talking about exploiting the name of Jesus Christ for political power and deliberately ignoring their Christian obligations in order to maintain worldly power.

That's not what I'm about, and my personal life proves that.

That's frankly not what my church is like.  I would not belong to an overtly political church.  There is a point where Scripture demands that one take a position on public issues, and abortion is certainly one of those.

You're still missing the point. You were incredulous about why Americans are losing faith in God and I'm telling that the idolatry and hypocrisy of American Christians is a big part of why that's the case.

I'm also not talking about people voting for Trump. I'm talking about the so-called Christian faith leaders who are content to stand alongside him in the name of God and ignore his rank, unrepentant adultery, ignore the fact that he is unsaved, and ignore the fact that he is leading all of his devotees straight to hell just so that they can acquire more political power and achieve success in this world. If you're keeping your mouth shut about salvation simply to accommodate the political authority or allies that you want the grace of, then please also shut the hell up about being a Christian. You can oppose abortion without selling out Jesus Christ in the process, and you can certainly do it without the help of money-grubbing, power-hungry spiritual whores who are turning more and more people away from Christ by the day.

[DaleCooper]

All Democrats (especially at the state level) have to do is start yelling "Marbury v. Madison" and/or "judicial review" - or what? Is the Supreme Court going to send in its army?

This country has been on Terri Schiavo levels of life support for the past 40 years. Let's just get it over with now. Who's going to win, after all: the tightly-clustered and defensible population centers allied with multinational corporations who actually own most of the land, food, water and utility operations alongside the educated people who actually fly the drones, turn the keys and drop the bombs, or....the rubes whose Walmarts, pharmacies, utilities and grocery stores can be red-zoned, along with those who spent 20 weeks in basic/AIT and/or can shoot at planes with 1% accuracy?

Kudos to whomever reported this. And we're supposedly the snowflakes!

Someone reported one of my posts too. I think it was either one of my religious posts or the one about the Russian/American publics.

[DaleCooper]

Um...wow. This was unexpected.

https://twitter.com/SenBobCasey/status/1540345011941900289

Now abortion isn't about "morals"  It isn't about "healthcare".  It isn't about "birth control".  It isn't about "privacy" any more than any other medical procedure.

It's about the issue of where HUMAN LIFE begins.  If that weren't the issue, there wouldn't be the ruckus.  This issue would have died 50 years ago with opposition to over-the-counter comdoms.

I have never been as disgusted with a politician as I am with Bob Casey, Jr. today.  Here's a guy who said he was a pro-life Democrat, but a statement such as this suggests that his principles on a life-and-death issue were paper-thin.  It's as if he posed to get elected, but now found a reason to give up the pose because he's from Pennsylvania and (most likely) wants to be President.

Those of you being pompous here, preaching about Christians making money off the Gospel (and, no, i'm not a supporter of Jesus, Inc.) ought to be calling out this utter shamelessness.  Was Bob Casey a fake all of these years?  Or is he fake now?  This is a guy that politically profited off the reputation of his pro-life Father to get elected, and now he's a shameless flip-flopper on a life-and-death issue.

I loathe Mitt Romney, but Mittens was never as shameless as this.  Not on his worst day.

Wrong.

It's about a tiny minority of theocrats like yourself enforcing your sense of morality on everyone else.

Perhaps you and those who agree with you are wrong, and God, Himself is making it clear.

This Forum is full of people trying to impose their secular morality on me.  This is hardly a "Live, and Let Live" place.  That's not good enough for many here on many issues.  Perhaps you can spend today thinking that God has a side in this issue, and you're out of sync with Him.  I know that many here simply think that's not possible, but maybe, just maybe, that's what's happening here.

How come you ignored my comment about how American Christians are often willing to ally with unbelievers and deliberately avoid calling out their anti-Christ beliefs and behavior for political gain?

[DaleCooper]

Since the conversation is over and I'm supposedly trolling I won't clutter the thread by quoting Fuzzy's post, but I will explain my point to anyone reading and also explain why it's relevant to this thread. I'm an ex-evangelical so I'm going to channel my old self and write this from that perspective, if you'll indulge me for a few paragraphs.

I want it to be clear that the religious talk on this issue from people like Fuzzy is a political performance done for the exclusive purpose of achieving success in secular government. This is about ending abortion, but it's not about serving God, at least not serving God the way the Bible demands it. Contrary to what Fuzzy seems to think I believe, I don't think it's wrong to agree with someone on a particular issue. What I'm talking about is tolerating and accommodating sinful and anti-Christ behavior in order to further a secular political goal. Denying God in the presence of unsaved people who need to hear the gospel is anti-Christ to the core. Holding hands with those who stand for a false, hell-bound religious system and pretending that they represent righteousness is anti-Christ to the core, no matter how impressive your political goal is. You're selling out God in order to achieve earthly accomplishments.

The issue I kept bringing up that Fuzzy refused to answer, and yes he did refuse to directly address it, relates to downplaying, withholding, and perverting the gospel in order to achieve more political power, regardless of what the end results are. He and other Christians are eager to twist the gospel around to make it seem like Trump is a Christian, but that's BS. We all know he would never extend such license to anyone else. Everyone knows behind the scenes that Trump does not believe in Jesus Christ as a savior, and regardless of whatever he claims to believe, Donald Trump is an unrepentant adulterer. The scripture is clear: God hates divorce, those who divorce and remarry are living in adultery, and there is no place for adulterers in the Kingdom of Heaven. For Christians to stand by him, worship his image, or ignore his behavior sends a message to the world that unrepentant unbelief and immorality are a-okay. You're bearing false witness to the world, ignoring an opportunity to preach the truth to men in hopes that some of them might be saved, all in exchange for power.

If you're still with me, my question is, "Why is it okay for Trump's 'Christian' entourage to withhold this information from him and encourage him to continue as he is and wind up in hell when he inevitably dies, as all men do?" The answer here, which Fuzzy unintentionally admitted, is that political victories in these cases are more important than the salvation of those allies who serve to further Christian influence in secular government. If the Christians who have sold their souls for political power were willing to warn Trump of his eternal fate, then they might lose access to him. They're willing to let Trump and his devotees remain blissfully ignorant on their way to hell if it means an abortion-related win. They're willing to deny Christ and adopt a fake milquetoast Jesus if it means achieving some piddling abortion victory.

I know a few people who are devout Christians and desperately want to end abortion. They vote, of course, but they also dedicate their time to helping pregnant women in need as well as families with children who have been born, they pray, and they're able to do all that without denying Christ in the presence of unbelievers for political gain. They don't whore themselves out to secular authorities, like most of the Christian Right does.

If you've stuck with me through this miserable, probably terrible post, thank you. The tl;dr is basically that you can oppose abortion while serving God, or you can forsake God to achieve political success in opposition to abortion or any other cultural issue. Don't let the people doing the latter ever talk a big game to you about how they're representing Christ. See it for what it is: a political strategy. It's as empty as "Hope & Change"

[DaleCooper]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

The legislation would result in a nationwide ban at 15 weeks with red states banning it from the moment of conception.

[DaleCooper]

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1541046784713170944

I'm more intrigued by the 8% of Dems and 10% of indies who are LESS likely to vote. 

Most likely people who believe that Democrats could've done something to prevent this and deliberately chose not to so they are not going to vote because of that.

[DaleCooper]

Was in D.C. the other day seeing some women holding up protest signs and one of them was like "We are NEVER going back."

I thought, "Ah, but we have already gone back, my friend."

Dobbs has shattered something that cannot be regained. A notion which, at least since the 1960s, but perhaps since the abolitionist movement of the early 19th century, has reigned in Western culture -- the notion that social history is a linear process of progress, whereby rights are continually expanded. In my view, that, is one of the most important legacies of Dobbs. It shows that social regression is in fact possible.

A historic "first" has occurred, but not the kind social liberals often celebrate. Rather, for the first time, a major social right that was once considered settled has been taken away. No matter how many rights you think you have as a woman, as a minority, as a gay, as any kind of minority, it can be taken away again.

The only group that rights cannot be taken away from are white men. Anything else, and your rights in the West will always be up for debate -- perpetually up for debate. You cannot sleep soundly. That is the real difference between social classes.

The very idea of a government taking away rights from people in the blink of an eye is just a horrifying concept in general. The "land of the free" locks up and surveils more people than civilized countries do. I've been saying since the Patriot Act passed - yes, when I was like nine - that America is becoming a police state.

I know this is an old post that I'm replying to, but I think you're definitely right about all of this. I've been noticing since long before Trump that the American people (not just the politicians, but the people themselves) are very eager to see rights taken away. "Live and let live" as a philosophy is totally gone, at least from what I can see. I also think we're dangerously close to losing the 1st Amendment too. Obviously it'll still exist, but I would not be surprised if there's a dramatic reinterpretation of it in the near future that limits the speech it protects, I'm betting due to "think of the children" legislation, which is a mindset that is very prominent now.