How do you feel about Biden’s chances in MI after tonight?

[GeneralMacArthur]

Much more optimistic.  He's going to lose a few thousand voters in Dearborn, but doesn't seem like there was much of a statement to be made by the rest of the state.  Ultimately the Arab-American voters of Dearborn, MI need to realize that demanding a major party nominee side with Hamas is simply not going to work, it is not a position that any political candidate is going to take.  They can either engage in politics rationally or take their ball and go home, but nobody is going to pander to them, and if they band together to refuse to vote for Biden over his lack of support for Hamas, they are just going to be seen as some fringey group like like the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints where they're not gettable voters because neither party is interested in signing their list of idiosyncratic demands.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Much more optimistic.  He's going to lose a few thousand voters in Dearborn, but doesn't seem like there was much of a statement to be made by the rest of the state.  Ultimately the Arab-American voters of Dearborn, MI need to realize that demanding a major party nominee side with Hamas is simply not going to work, it is not a position that any political candidate is going to take.  They can either engage in politics rationally or take their ball and go home, but nobody is going to pander to them, and if they band together to refuse to vote for Biden over his lack of support for Hamas, they are just going to be seen as some fringey group like like the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints where they're not gettable voters because neither party is interested in signing their list of idiosyncratic demands.

They aren't wanting Democrats to side with Hamas. They don't want Israel to kill so many civilans. 30k dead, 2/3rds women and children. This isn't a fringe position. I watched Seth Meyers and Jon Stewart last night, and both men asked what the US could do to have Israel be more careful about civilian Palestinian deaths. 10 years ago, this would not have been asked on TV by mainstream journalists

The rate of civilian deaths by day has dropped significantly over the last two months.  I don't know if U.S. pressure led to this, but certainly Biden has been applying that pressure.

Biden has also been working to negotiate a ceasefire.  Hamas just rejected another one today.  Voters are demanding Biden get a ceasefire, and Biden is trying to.  They should try protesting Hamas for not accepting it.

Ultimately we have a motte-and-bailey situation where a lot of these people say they want Biden to do things he's already doing, but then when you scratch even just a bit at the surface, what they really want is for Israel to unilaterally end the war without any conditions.  Which is exactly the same thing Hamas wants, because that means Hamas gets to keep their hostages forever and stay in power in Gaza forever.  They probably even want Israel to pay to rebuild Gaza too -- money that would flow directly into Hamas's pockets if Hamas stays in power.

So yes, they want Democrats to side with Hamas.  Many Democratic voters may just be repeating slogans and phrases they heard online or in the media without really thinking about what they mean, so they don't realize this.  I would wager many more genuinely think they are demanding that Biden start negotiating a ceasefire and pushing Israel to be nicer, because they're too ignorant to know that he's already doing this.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Yes, I know President Biden has been applying pressure on Israel and working hard towards a ceasefire. I am a proud supporter of President Biden and look forward to voting for him in November. I also happen to be a Palestinian American

The protestors in America do want the war to end permeantly. They want the hostages released. I agree that most protestors haven't put too much thought into the fate of Hamas. The best result would be a deal that allows Hamas fighters to flee to a third world nation like the cowards they are and for the internationally recognized PA to lead the Gaza Strip

I, too, would like the war to end permanently.

However, I am not personally willing to accept an end to the war that allows Hamas to stay in power.

To me, that does not actually end the war permanently.  It creates the inevitability of a subsequent war.  It also makes any efforts to repair and rebuild Gaza utterly pointless since those funds will be appropriate by Hamas and used to rebuild the tunnel network Israel has been destroying.  This is the worst possible outcome for Palestinians.

I would call any "peace" where Hamas remains in power a Hamas victory.  Given the choice between the two, I would rather Israel continue its war until Hamas is completely destroyed.  Yes even at the cost of civilian casualties.

Furthermore, if Israel were to make concessions to reach an end to the war where Hamas stays in power, as so many want them to do (concessions including releasing Palestinian prisoners and paying reparations to Gaza), I would consider that to be an Israeli surrender.  Which would be absurd, given they're overwhelmingly winning the war on the ground.  By rights, Hamas should be the ones either groveling for a ceasefire or taking cyanide tablets in their bunkers.

Naturally Israel feels the same way, which is why the war continues.

I think Biden feels the same way as well and suspect that behind the scenes he is just as frustrated with Hamas's stubbornness as Israel.

Of course, if you are Hamas in this situation you have to be stubborn.  You have basically nothing to gain from not fighting to the last man.  The leaders of Hamas don't care how many Hamas fighters or Palestinian civilians die.  They aren't even in Gaza, they're up in their Doha penthouse hot tubs jerking off to 10/7 videos.  To them, at this point, this is probably like when you're playing a game of Age of Empires and you're totally busted but you'd rather recreate the Charge of the Light Brigade than just hit Resign.  The main thing they're hoping for right now is that suckers in the west can create enough political pressure on western leaders to transitively pressure Bibi into ending the war early.