11 year old rape victim forced to carry to term thanks to Ohio law.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The law includes an exception for serious medical risk to the mother, so if that's your argument against this law you need to find a new one.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If only the "pro-life" people cared 1/1,000,000th as much about the lives of the already born as they do the "unborn."

Why is "unborn" in scare quotes?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Do you consider yourself a parent after you have sex?

Sometimes.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

No one "likes" chemotherapy, but sometimes it is necessary.

Are you seriously telling me you would force your 11 year old daughter to carry a baby to term?

What would you do? Pull her out of school for the whole year?

Are you going to force her to undergo surgery to cut her pelvis in half to accommodate removing the fetus from her, since her skeletal structure is almost definitely too small to allow a full-term baby to be born otherwise?

Why can't a pregnant girl attend school ?

And where are you getting your medical info ?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If people don't won't to get pregnant and don't want an abortion and don't use birth control, they shouldn't be having sex.

I agree. That's precisely what most of us argue. Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

Condoning pedophilia is not normal. Maybe in your neck of the woods.

https://www.iowansforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/straw-man-meme.jpg

Believing that an unborn baby shouldn't be killed because of a crime he didn't commit doesn't mean you're glad said crime took place, nor does it mean you think it should happen more often.

There is no strawman, Mr. Debater. An 11 year old girl was actually raped and people on here are really advocating that The United States Government should compound that injustice and trauma by forcing her to give birth as the result of the trauma caused to her by a pedophile. That's as real as it gets, so again not a strawman.

Why do you assume giving birth would be traumatic and terminating her baby wouldn't be?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If people don't won't to get pregnant and don't want an abortion and don't use birth control, they shouldn't be having sex.

I agree. That's precisely what most of us argue. Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

Condoning pedophilia is not normal. Maybe in your neck of the woods.

https://www.iowansforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/straw-man-meme.jpg

Believing that an unborn baby shouldn't be killed because of a crime he didn't commit doesn't mean you're glad said crime took place, nor does it mean you think it should happen more often.

There is no strawman, Mr. Debater. An 11 year old girl was actually raped and people on here are really advocating that The United States Government should compound that injustice and trauma by forcing her to give birth as the result of the trauma caused to her by a pedophile. That's as real as it gets, so again not a strawman.

Why do you assume giving birth would be traumatic and terminating her baby wouldn't be?

He's not assuming anything.

He wants her and her family to decide what to do based on what wouldn't be traumatic for her.

You want to deprive them of any choice at all.

Please. The operating assumption in this entire conversation on the "pro-choice" side is that giving birth for a girl who's been raped would be as traumatic as the rape itself and that aborting her child would be like trimming a toenail. You even said you'd go "scorched earth" on your daughters' uterus.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Are you seriously telling me you would force your 11 year old daughter to carry a baby to term?

Yes. Some of us have morals.

That's what fundamentalist Muslims in Podunk Africa would say to justify female genital mutilation.

You people are no less barbaric than they are.

Murdering babies is barbaric.

Please look up the word z y g o t e. Zygote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygote

A zygote (from Greek ζυγωτός zygōtos "joined" or "yoked", from ζυγοῦν zygoun "to join" or "to yoke")[1] is a eukaryotic cell formed by a fertilization event between two gametes. The zygote's genome is a combination of the DNA in each gamete, and contains all of the genetic information necessary to form a new individual. In multicellular organisms, the zygote is the earliest developmental stage. In single-celled organisms, the zygote can divide asexually by mitosis to produce identical offspring.

If she knows she's pregnant, we are no longer talking about a zygote.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that an 11-year-old rape victim should not have the unquestioned right to an abortion either gets off on cruelty or has a completely misguided sense of morality. In other words, you are a bad person. Reflect on yourself, and what morality even means. Morals aren't rules or laws - if only they were so simple.

I can live with being a bad person if it means the children of rape victims don't get the death penalty.   

Sure, this position is "anti-empathy," just as opposing the death penalty for murder is.   There would seem to be nothing less empathetic than opposing the death penalty for a murderer, since you are making those victims' families know that their loved one's killer is still alive, and preventing the feeling of closure that comes with the sacrifice of the offender's blood. And yet many people still hold this position because they believe that a life has value no matter the deed or circumstance, and that true healing might be found in something other than responding to violence with violence.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that an 11-year-old rape victim should not have the unquestioned right to an abortion either gets off on cruelty or has a completely misguided sense of morality. In other words, you are a bad person. Reflect on yourself, and what morality even means. Morals aren't rules or laws - if only they were so simple.

I can live with being a bad person if it means the children of rape victims don't get the death penalty.   

Sure, this position is "anti-empathy," just as opposing the death penalty for murder is.   There would seem to be nothing less empathetic than opposing the death penalty for a murderer, since you are making those victims' families know that their loved one's killer is still alive, and preventing the feeling of closure that comes with the sacrifice of the offender's blood. And yet many people still hold this position because they believe that a life has value no matter the deed or circumstance, and that true healing might be found in something other than responding to violence with violence.

But if the 11 year old, who may still be infantile in her body and physical structure is effectively mutilated through pregnancy and delivery you're cool with that.

I'm not "cool" with any such thing.
I'm not the one suggesting mutilation of a human body as a solution to anything.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that an 11-year-old rape victim should not have the unquestioned right to an abortion either gets off on cruelty or has a completely misguided sense of morality. In other words, you are a bad person. Reflect on yourself, and what morality even means. Morals aren't rules or laws - if only they were so simple.

I can live with being a bad person if it means the children of rape victims don't get the death penalty.   

Sure, this position is "anti-empathy," just as opposing the death penalty for murder is.   There would seem to be nothing less empathetic than opposing the death penalty for a murderer, since you are making those victims' families know that their loved one's killer is still alive, and preventing the feeling of closure that comes with the sacrifice of the offender's blood. And yet many people still hold this position because they believe that a life has value no matter the deed or circumstance, and that true healing might be found in something other than responding to violence with violence.

But if the 11 year old, who may still be infantile in her body and physical structure is effectively mutilated through pregnancy and delivery you're cool with that.

I'm not "cool" with any such thing.
I'm not the one suggesting mutilation of a human body as a solution to anything.

So what is your solution to a child giving birth to a child?

An 11-year old who is pregnant is likely on the more mature side physiologically and anatomically for her age, but of course a medical determination of the risks must be made in each individual case.   So the medical specifics guide what's permissible, but with the conviction that if it's possible to protect the health of the young mother, it's always better to protect the life growing inside her, for her own sake as well, and support her with everything she needs during her pregnancy and birth. Giving birth can be an affirmation of life and hope in the face of grave injustice; abortion compounds the tragedy.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that an 11-year-old rape victim should not have the unquestioned right to an abortion either gets off on cruelty or has a completely misguided sense of morality. In other words, you are a bad person. Reflect on yourself, and what morality even means. Morals aren't rules or laws - if only they were so simple.

I can live with being a bad person if it means the children of rape victims don't get the death penalty.   

Sure, this position is "anti-empathy," just as opposing the death penalty for murder is.   There would seem to be nothing less empathetic than opposing the death penalty for a murderer, since you are making those victims' families know that their loved one's killer is still alive, and preventing the feeling of closure that comes with the sacrifice of the offender's blood. And yet many people still hold this position because they believe that a life has value no matter the deed or circumstance, and that true healing might be found in something other than responding to violence with violence.

But if the 11 year old, who may still be infantile in her body and physical structure is effectively mutilated through pregnancy and delivery you're cool with that.

I'm not "cool" with any such thing.
I'm not the one suggesting mutilation of a human body as a solution to anything.

So what is your solution to a child giving birth to a child?

An 11-year old who is pregnant is likely on the more mature side physiologically and anatomically for her age, but of course a medical determination of the risks must be made in each individual case.   So the medical specifics guide what's permissible, but with the conviction that if it's possible to protect the health of the young mother, it's always better to protect the life growing inside her, for her own sake as well, and support her with everything she needs during her pregnancy and birth. Giving birth can be an affirmation of life and hope in the face of grave injustice; abortion compounds the tragedy.

It's good that you're here to tell women that the baby they don't want to bear from the rape they didn't want to happen is an affirmation of life and hope. It doesn't matter what they think, right? Just so long as you can tell them, no, your anger is wrong, you're hopeful now.

I'm not telling anyone their anger is wrong.  Rage in such a case is completely appropriate.  I'm saying there are ways to respond to it that are constructive and ways that are destructive.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

An 11-year old who is pregnant is likely on the more mature side physiologically and anatomically for her age, but of course a medical determination of the risks must be made in each individual case.   So the medical specifics guide what's permissible, but with the conviction that if it's possible to protect the health of the young mother, it's always better to protect the life growing inside her, for her own sake as well, and support her with everything she needs during her pregnancy and birth. Giving birth can be an affirmation of life and hope in the face of grave injustice; abortion compounds the tragedy.

One of the single most disgusting things I have read on this site, especially the parts that I emphasized. I’m not even going to dignify it with my usual trolling reply.

How is any of that disgusting?
You think abortion is less disgusting?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

An 11-year old who is pregnant is likely on the more mature side physiologically and anatomically for her age, but of course a medical determination of the risks must be made in each individual case.   So the medical specifics guide what's permissible, but with the conviction that if it's possible to protect the health of the young mother, it's always better to protect the life growing inside her, for her own sake as well, and support her with everything she needs during her pregnancy and birth. Giving birth can be an affirmation of life and hope in the face of grave injustice; abortion compounds the tragedy.

One of the single most disgusting things I have read on this site, especially the parts that I emphasized. I’m not even going to dignify it with my usual trolling reply.

How is any of that disgusting?
You think abortion is less disgusting?

Abortion is less disgusting than making an 11 year old rape victim carry a child that her body cannot support and has a high percentage of dying even if carried to term.

You can quote me on that and take it to the bank.

So I see you aren't responding to anything I actually said.  Gotcha.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

An 11-year old who is pregnant is likely on the more mature side physiologically and anatomically for her age, but of course a medical determination of the risks must be made in each individual case.   So the medical specifics guide what's permissible, but with the conviction that if it's possible to protect the health of the young mother, it's always better to protect the life growing inside her, for her own sake as well, and support her with everything she needs during her pregnancy and birth. Giving birth can be an affirmation of life and hope in the face of grave injustice; abortion compounds the tragedy.

One of the single most disgusting things I have read on this site, especially the parts that I emphasized. I’m not even going to dignify it with my usual trolling reply.

How is any of that disgusting?
You think abortion is less disgusting?

It's less disgusting than your post basically saying that a rape baby is an affirmation of hope. That is truly sickening and the lowest I've seen anyone stoop while posting on this board.

I think calling someone a "rape baby" in order to devalue them is pretty disgusting myself.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Imagine growing up knowing that your life was the product of your daddy raping your mommy while she was in fifth grade.  Or not knowing because your family chose to lie to you your whole life instead.

Heartwarming stuff.

Imagine being told by a bunch of woke people it'd be better if you were killed in the womb.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Imagine growing up knowing that your life was the product of your daddy raping your mommy while she was in fifth grade.  Or not knowing because your family chose to lie to you your whole life instead.

Heartwarming stuff.

Imagine being told by a bunch of woke people it'd be better if you were killed in the womb.

No...?  Why would anybody ever say that?  Is this what you think being pro-choice is about?

Then what is the point of your sarcasm about it being "heartwarming" that such a child would be given the chance to live?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Imagine growing up knowing that your life was the product of your daddy raping your mommy while she was in fifth grade.  Or not knowing because your family chose to lie to you your whole life instead.

Heartwarming stuff.

Imagine being told by a bunch of woke people it'd be better if you were killed in the womb.

No...?  Why would anybody ever say that?  Is this what you think being pro-choice is about?

Then what is the point of your sarcasm about it being "heartwarming" that such a child would be given the chance to live?

There's no guarantee that such a child would live after birth. Who is to say that the mother wouldn't harm the baby out of rage over being forced to give birth to it or just subject it to years and years of abuse?

There are never any guarantees.  But why have such a low opinion of a sexual assault survivor as to assume that is all they are capable of?
If she doesn't feel able to raise the child herself, there are many people who would gladly give the child a loving home.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

An 11-year old who is pregnant is likely on the more mature side physiologically and anatomically for her age, but of course a medical determination of the risks must be made in each individual case.   So the medical specifics guide what's permissible, but with the conviction that if it's possible to protect the health of the young mother, it's always better to protect the life growing inside her, for her own sake as well, and support her with everything she needs during her pregnancy and birth. Giving birth can be an affirmation of life and hope in the face of grave injustice; abortion compounds the tragedy.

Nope. The other awful sentences may be outshine this one, but no pro choice person, and many people who are generally anti-abortion as well, are going to take issue with this sentence.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

An 11-year old who is pregnant is likely on the more mature side physiologically and anatomically for her age, but of course a medical determination of the risks must be made in each individual case.   So the medical specifics guide what's permissible, but with the conviction that if it's possible to protect the health of the young mother, it's always better to protect the life growing inside her, for her own sake as well, and support her with everything she needs during her pregnancy and birth. Giving birth can be an affirmation of life and hope in the face of grave injustice; abortion compounds the tragedy.

Nope. The other awful sentences may be outshine this one, but no pro choice person, and many people who are generally anti-abortion as well, are going to take issue with this sentence.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

That I don't agree with the bolded part, and I don't think most other people would either. Protecting "the life inside her," if that's what you insist on calling it, it orders of magnitude less important than the welfare of the 11-year-old child.

It seems like maybe you are taking the bolded part out of the context in such a way as to completely ignore what comes before and after it, thus missing the entire point.   And I don't know in what way "the life growing inside her" could possibly be an inaccurate description.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Imagine growing up knowing that your life was the product of your daddy raping your mommy while she was in fifth grade.  Or not knowing because your family chose to lie to you your whole life instead.

Heartwarming stuff.

Imagine being told by a bunch of woke people it'd be better if you were killed in the womb.

No...?  Why would anybody ever say that?  Is this what you think being pro-choice is about?

Then what is the point of your sarcasm about it being "heartwarming" that such a child would be given the chance to live?

I was putting myself in the lose-lose existential crisis that being an adult that was once a baby conceived by rape would inevitably create.  How much therapy would solve that?  I wouldn't be surprised if severe depression and suicide were common threats to such a person.

You, for some reason, argued that the pro-choice crowd would be happy to inform this same person that yeah, it absolutely would be better if they'd been aborted.  You do realize that basically everybody in the pro-choice camp (excluding the eugenics assholes) is theoretically supportive of every mother's decision whether or not to abort?

Theoretically supportive.   In practice, in many circumstances they assume abortion is the way to go.  It's  all over this thread.
I heard it from the feminist staff at the women's shelter where I once interned:  "Such a shame that she took that money her ex gave her for the abortion and spent it on clothes for her kids."

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

You, for some reason, argued that the pro-choice crowd would be happy to inform this same person that yeah, it absolutely would be better if they'd been aborted.  You do realize that basically everybody in the pro-choice camp (excluding the eugenics assholes) is theoretically supportive of every mother's decision whether or not to abort?

Theoretically supportive.   In practice, in many circumstances they assume abortion is the way to go.  It's  all over this thread.

The assumption is there because the specific circumstances make it seem like the obvious solution.  An eleven year-old girl was raped.  To most anybody the solution is absolutely obvious... but if she and the family had freely decided to keep it, I assure you the pro-choice crowd would be supportive and accepting (not that it has anything to do with anybody else at all but them).  Hence why it's "pro-choice", and not "pro-death" as some on the other side like to say.

"If it's a result of rape, the solution is absolutely obvious."
"If it's Down Syndrome, the solution is absolutely obvious."
"If it's a girl, the solution is absolutely obvious."

These assumptions are value judgements about who is worthy of life.  That's inescapable.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Imagine growing up knowing that your life was the product of your daddy raping your mommy while she was in fifth grade.  Or not knowing because your family chose to lie to you your whole life instead.

Heartwarming stuff.

Imagine being told by a bunch of woke people it'd be better if you were killed in the womb.

No...?  Why would anybody ever say that?  Is this what you think being pro-choice is about?

Then what is the point of your sarcasm about it being "heartwarming" that such a child would be given the chance to live?

There's no guarantee that such a child would live after birth. Who is to say that the mother wouldn't harm the baby out of rage over being forced to give birth to it or just subject it to years and years of abuse?

There are never any guarantees.  But why have such a low opinion of a sexual assault survivor as to assume that is all they are capable of?
If she doesn't feel able to raise the child herself, there are many people who would gladly give the child a loving home.

Lots of children every year age out of foster care never having been adopted. Let’s not pretend this isn’t the case.

If a birth parent is seeking adoptive parents to take an infant, the foster care system isn't relevant.  In theory the primary goal of the foster care system is family reunification.  A child can be in the system for years before they are eligible for adoption.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Imagine growing up knowing that your life was the product of your daddy raping your mommy while she was in fifth grade.  Or not knowing because your family chose to lie to you your whole life instead.

Heartwarming stuff.

Imagine being told by a bunch of woke people it'd be better if you were killed in the womb.

No...?  Why would anybody ever say that?  Is this what you think being pro-choice is about?

Then what is the point of your sarcasm about it being "heartwarming" that such a child would be given the chance to live?

There's no guarantee that such a child would live after birth. Who is to say that the mother wouldn't harm the baby out of rage over being forced to give birth to it or just subject it to years and years of abuse?

There are never any guarantees.  But why have such a low opinion of a sexual assault survivor as to assume that is all they are capable of?
If she doesn't feel able to raise the child herself, there are many people who would gladly give the child a loving home.

Lots of children every year age out of foster care never having been adopted. Let’s not pretend this isn’t the case.

If a birth parent is seeking adoptive parents to take an infant, the foster care system isn't relevant.  In theory the primary goal of the foster care system is family reunification.  A child can be in the system for years before they are eligible for adoption.

The point is simply that not all children up for adoption get adopted, let alone to a loving, caring home. Stop being obtuse.

I'm being obtuse for pointing out that something wouldn't apply in this situation?  k.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm claiming the number of parents wanting to adopt a baby - of any race - are far greater than the number available for adoption in this country.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm claiming the number of parents wanting to adopt a baby - of any race - are far greater than the number available for adoption in this country.

It would be shorter to just say you don't really know what you're talking about.

What is inaccurate?

20 k unrelated domestic infant adoptions per year vs. hundreds of thousands currently seeking to adopt, and millions more who would be willing to.