Obama booed by some NEA teachers

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Obama taking on the teachers union.... im liking him more and more.

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Alun, what do you propose to improve the educational outcomes of lower SES students in the near to intermediate term? (Note the emphasis on the word "outcomes.")

More vocational education, more arts and activites stuff, better facilities, less testing, new or cleaned-up buildings, etc, etc. That kind of thing.

Oh, and make it easier for teachers and other staff to deal with troublemakers without fear of litigation or whatever (just to make that clear; that's not code for "allow teachers to hit children" or anything like that...)

The most serious issues can't be dealt with on a near-to-intermediate-term basis though.

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Oh, no danger of going down that route

Putting aside vocational training for those not headed into a white collar profession, I don't see what facilities and nice buildings has to do with educational at all. I had classes in WWII army barracks. And I don't see how one can measure progress and performance without tests.  Discipline is always good. I think school uniforms are a good idea actually. Flashy clothing can be distracting. "Arts and activities" (activities = field trips?) are nice, but peripheral.

You agenda is a bit "woolly" Alun.

Torie what kind of standardized tests are you talking about? The SAT's are complete bullsh**t. I aced that s*** but did not learn anything. Well I learned how to take multiple choice tests but is that really necessary? The CA high school exit exam is good though. It tests at about a 10th grade level but at least it is relevant unlike the SATs. Anyone who cannot pass that test does not deserve to pass HS. That being said we need to do a much much better job teaching english in some of our inner city schools.

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The SAT tests reading comprehension and verbal skills, and that is what it is all about. If you don't have that, you have nothing.

The new SAT is a bit better because they teach writing skills, but honestly it is easy as hell to ace the verbal part. I got a 710 and I suck at verbal communication. I just learned how to game the system, only possible because my parents had the extra 500 bucks to spend. The math part is not so bad and you do need actual knowledge there. See I took the test 3 times, each time I did a little bit better. I got a 700 on math each time I took it but was able to improve my verbal score each time. I accomplished that by learning how to take multiple choice tests, a luxury many cannot afford.

[Sbane]

The SAT tests reading comprehension and verbal skills, and that is what it is all about. If you don't have that, you have nothing.

The new SAT is a bit better because they teach writing skills, but honestly it is easy as hell to ace the verbal part. I got a 710 and I suck at verbal communication. I just learned how to game the system, only possible because my parents had the extra 500 bucks to spend. The math part is not so bad and you do need actual knowledge there. See I took the test 3 times, each time I did a little bit better. I got a 700 on math each time I took it but was able to improve my verbal score each time. I accomplished that by learning how to take multiple choice tests, a luxury many cannot afford.

Ya, working at test taking helps a bit. I self tested myself a zillion years ago, and did some other work, and was able to push my verbal SAT score to about 780 from 730 or so. But it still is a good test in general, even if, if those who apply themselves can push the envelop a bit. To deny that is just so sciolistic, bordering on the eristic. Heck, I learned the word lagniappe from the exercise.

HAHA I do not know how much the SAT will help me in jobs and such but it certainly helps me read your posts.