Obama booed by some NEA teachers

[MarkWarner08]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/07/mostly-cheers-b.html?csp=34

Obama advocates merit pay and is then booed by NEA members.  First he angered the liberal bloggers and the Feingold wing of the party, and now he's antagonized teachers. Wonderful.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Wow, paying people based on how well they do their job? Good thing they booed him, what a horrendous idea

[Flying Dog]

Most teachers suck.

[MarkWarner08]

His plan also incentives the practice of fudging students' test results. Making pay contingent on higher test scores  reeks of the failed NCLB law.

[Sam Spade]

His plan also incentives the practice of fudging students' test results. Making pay contingent on higher test scores  reeks of the failed NCLB law.

Interesting...

[Hash]

I oppose his plan to pay teachers based on how well students do on tests. You can't penalize teachers for having dumbass students in their classes.

On a side note, many of my former teachers wouldn't get paid much if they were paid based on their teaching abilities. I know one specifically who would earn 0.00$.

[specific_name]

The NEA was behind Hillary all the way, so that's not terribly surprising. Merit pay based on test scores is a completely stupid idea. Having kids in your classroom test higher than average or improve more quickly than average is no indicator of job performance. Sometimes its luck of the draw. Test performance doesn't equal retained knowledge for that matter...but I digress. NCLB is such a bunch of garbage. The fed. govt. should just stay out of education.

[War on Want]

Normally I am for merit pay but his particular plan is fairly stupid.

[Torie]

His plan also incentives the practice of fudging students' test results. Making pay contingent on higher test scores  reeks of the failed NCLB law.

Yes, we must continue paying teachers the same; we must insure that the vast bulk of them continue to be the C students from third tier colleges. It is America's future that is at stake.

[MarkWarner08]

His plan also incentives the practice of fudging students' test results. Making pay contingent on higher test scores  reeks of the failed NCLB law.

Yes, we must continue paying teachers the same; we must insure that the vast bulk of them continue to be the C students from third tier colleges. It is America's future that is at stake.

How does inflating their grade better prepare them for college? If it were up to me, we'd start accelerate the pace of math and science in public schools, following the Asian model. Unfortunately, for a plethora  of reasons, most Americans youths aren't as focused on their studies as the majority of their Asian counterparts.

[Flying Dog]

Hmmm..... after learning more of Obama's "plan." I find it quite dull-minded and kind of hypocritical. Wasn't Obama the one who said that we need to stop "teaching to the test"? The merit pay plan runs directly counter to accomplishing this.

[Torie]

We need to weed out mediocrity by rewarding good teaches with generous pay (the best should make like 150K per year or more), and firing the weak sisters. We must get rid of tenure and destroy the teachers' unions. We must attract a better quality person to be a teacher, by making it a profession again, where the talented are rewarded, and the untalented are driven out. It is just so damn simple really. Paying everyone the same, more or less, with tweaks for longevity and taking worthless courses, is just so demoralizing for those who are the best and the brightest. They frankly don't  want to be associated with the drones (it reflects poorly on them frankly), much less be paid like them.

The beast needs competition, and it needs it now. We need vouchers everywhere. We need to threaten the school warehouses with empty desks, as parents vote with their feet. We need to suffuse fear into the public school educational establishment - fear that they will lose their jobs, and end up on the sidewalk hoisting  a sign reading, "Will work for food."

[DownWithTheLeft]

We must get rid of tenure and destroy the teachers' unions.

That is the solution, the rest is really useful.  Although I highly disagree that we should pay $150k+ to people who "work" 180 days a year in most cases.

[Torie]

We must get rid of tenure and destroy the teachers' unions.

That is the solution, the rest is really useful.  Although I highly disagree that we should pay $150k+ to people who "work" 180 days a year in most cases.

Well if it's Arkansas, cut it down to 100K per year for the uber mensch teaches. .  In Manhattan or LA or SF, 150K per year, is barely enough to live a middle class life style.

[Flying Dog]

We must get rid of tenure and destroy the teachers' unions.

That is the solution, the rest is really useful.  Although I highly disagree that we should pay $150k+ to people who "work" 180 days a year in most cases.

Yes! Destroying all those damn evil unions will solve all our problems!

[DownWithTheLeft]

We must get rid of tenure and destroy the teachers' unions.

That is the solution, the rest is really useful.  Although I highly disagree that we should pay $150k+ to people who "work" 180 days a year in most cases.

Well if it's Arkansas, cut it down to 100K per year for the uber mensch teaches. .  In Manhattan or LA or SF, 150K per year, is barely enough to live a middle class life style.

That still seems kind of high, what are current rates?  I know the highest paid non-supervisor/other administrator in the district (minus coaching money) makes around $95,000.  And we're a blue ribbon district 7 miles from NYC

[Torie]

We must get rid of tenure and destroy the teachers' unions.

That is the solution, the rest is really useful.  Although I highly disagree that we should pay $150k+ to people who "work" 180 days a year in most cases.

Yes! Destroying all those damn evil unions will solve all our problems!

If I didn't know any better, I would perhaps think that you were a Dem from Michigan (and probably not a Yankee WASP type to boot).

[Flying Dog]

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!

[Torie]

We must get rid of tenure and destroy the teachers' unions.

That is the solution, the rest is really useful.  Although I highly disagree that we should pay $150k+ to people who "work" 180 days a year in most cases.

Well if it's Arkansas, cut it down to 100K per year for the uber mensch teaches. .  In Manhattan or LA or SF, 150K per year, is barely enough to live a middle class life style.

That still seems kind of high, what are current rates?  I know the highest paid non-supervisor/other administrator in the district (minus coaching money) makes around $95,000.  And we're a blue ribbon district 7 miles from NYC

You don't get it. You are not going to attract the best and the brightest, unless [there] is a solid upper middle class life style at the end of the rainbow. Paying what I suggest is essential, just as firing the underperformers (perhaps a near majority of what is now the despoiled public commons), is equally as essential.

[DownWithTheLeft]

You don't get it. You are not going to attract the best and the brightest, unless their is a solid upper middle class life style at the end of the rainbow. Paying what I suggest is essential, just as firing the underperformers (perhaps a near majority of what is now the despoiled public commons), is equally as essential.

I understand your point, but are suggesting $150k as a max salary or a starting salary?  I could understand a teacher that has performed well and by a teacher for a decade or so making $150k, but not starting out, where would the ceiling be?  $300k+?  I think that would cripple the taxpayers considering the mess my town is already in  (although a lot of that comes from overpayed police)

[Torie]

You don't get it. You are not going to attract the best and the brightest, unless their is a solid upper middle class life style at the end of the rainbow. Paying what I suggest is essential, just as firing the underperformers (perhaps a near majority of what is now the despoiled public commons), is equally as essential.

I understand your point, but are suggesting $150k as a max salary or a starting salary?  I could understand a teacher that has performed well and by a teacher for a decade or so making $150k, but not starting out, where would the ceiling be?  $300k+?  I think that would cripple the taxpayers considering the mess my town is already in  (although a lot of that comes from overpayed police)

Correct, it is a max.

[DownWithTheLeft]

You don't get it. You are not going to attract the best and the brightest, unless their is a solid upper middle class life style at the end of the rainbow. Paying what I suggest is essential, just as firing the underperformers (perhaps a near majority of what is now the despoiled public commons), is equally as essential.

I understand your point, but are suggesting $150k as a max salary or a starting salary?  I could understand a teacher that has performed well and by a teacher for a decade or so making $150k, but not starting out, where would the ceiling be?  $300k+?  I think that would cripple the taxpayers considering the mess my town is already in  (although a lot of that comes from overpayed police)

Correct, it is a max.

Now that I will agree with you on

[Filuwaúrdjan]

You are not going to attract the best and the brightest,

I don't see how trying to attract people with the highest academic qualifications will help the (or any) education system much. What matters far more is having people who can actually teach; and levels of formal academic achievement are often very poor measures of that sort of thing.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

People motivated mostly by money aren't going to be interested in becoming teachers, full stop. This is a good thing. Such people would make for awful teachers.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'm not sure how firing a majority of the teaching profession would help the education system much. Sounds rather Soviet actually.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Most teachers suck.
[/quote

Rather a strong allegation. Prove it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

His plan also incentives the practice of fudging students' test results. Making pay contingent on higher test scores  reeks of the failed NCLB law.

Almost enough to make me stick a "Nader for President" sign of some sort in my signature.