Israel-Gaza war

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/AlnaouqA/status/1716955701497761976?s=20
Has had 30 family members killed by the IDF

Every single Twitter exchange between pro-Palestine users usually goes like this:

White CooperUnion Student: I HATE JEWS!!!!1

Arab who lost half of their family to indiscriminate IDF Bombings: I hate Israel not Jews

True enough, but there is also no denying that Israel likes to equate itself with all Jewish people when it suits them to do so - even though the same thing can be an AS trope with certain types.

[CumbrianLefty]

Sorry, but I don't accept that at all.

There were by all accounts serious talks about getting them released just yesterday.

This looks very like a decision by Netanyahu, in an attempt to save his own skin.

[CumbrianLefty]

Netanyahu again blamed the 10/7 attack on his generals. Had to delete the tweet in embarrassment/shame. At least Chamberlain had the patriotic balls to resign when his credibility evaporated lol

Though he did hang on as PM for a year after the war started. Hopefully not the case with Bibi.

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/martyrmade/status/1718794059672940622

This is a strange post because, of course, when American conservatives have criticized Israel over the past month (ie, Mike Collins, "Keep Bombing Hamas"), it's mostly been to the effect that the response is insufficient, and it's easy to imagine a Republican Administration pushing the state to respond much more aggressively.

A very good reason, amongst many, why the GOP shouldn't get back total power any time soon.

[CumbrianLefty]

The strike on the refugee camp by the IDF is horrific and unacceptable. Shame on Netanyahu and his ilk.

Atrocities do not justify atrocities.

I don't think a Gantz or Lapid led gov would've done anything differently here.

Agree. I really think this whole Netanyahu blame game is a little cheap. His options are obviously extremely limited and almost any other Israeli PM would act similarly.

Agreed that any other Israeli PM would conduct a war similarly (even if not identically) and this is of course backed up by how Israel has behaved in the past. But that's not the main indictment of Bibi, is it - much more his responsibility for them having to do this in the first place.

[CumbrianLefty]

Can we at least not do the "no good Palestinians" myth. Gaza has been in effect a totalitarian state for years, and people should realise well enough what that means by now.

[CumbrianLefty]

Can we at least not do the "no good Palestinians" myth. Gaza has been in effect a totalitarian state for years, and people should realise well enough what that means by now.

The regime is supported or condoned by most of the population. Any active resistance will be a tiny minority.

And re my above post, tell me any totalitarian dictatorship where that wasn't normally the case.

We should always in such cases, try to distinguish between active and passive support.

[CumbrianLefty]

Whilst such poll findings are sobering, they are roughly what you would expect in the circumstances - I have little doubt that surveys of Allied countries in WW2 would have shown very similar figures.

[CumbrianLefty]

Whilst such poll findings are sobering, they are roughly what you would expect in the circumstances - I have little doubt that surveys of Allied countries in WW2 would have shown very similar figures.

And the Allied countries would've been wrong to think that.

They. Are. Civilians.

And indeed some in those countries said that at the time, they were a minority though. The point is that this tends to be the case in wars, and is indeed a reason why they should be avoided if possible.

[CumbrianLefty]

Whilst such poll findings are sobering, they are roughly what you would expect in the circumstances - I have little doubt that surveys of Allied countries in WW2 would have shown very similar figures.

And the Allied countries would've been wrong to think that.

They. Are. Civilians.

And indeed some in those countries said that at the time, they were a minority though. The point is that this tends to be the case in wars, and is indeed a reason why they should be avoided if possible.

Netanyahu wanted and needed this war, just like he needed Hamas to undermine the PA, divide Palestinians, and ensure continued support for Israeli policy in the West, especially the US. It’s horrifying that Israeli and Palestinian civilians have been paying the price.

Not much to disagree with there, but slightly different to the point I was making.

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1721084208230322613

Good riddance.

A reminder though : supporting this particular Israeli government means supporting these extreme factions that sit in government positions within it.

Indeed, what should happen is the loony rightists dumped en masse and the likes of Lapid brought in - this would, after all, still be a broad based "war government".

But that would put Netanyahu in a weaker position, which is all that matters to him.

[CumbrianLefty]

Vosem vindicated once again on this issue.

Lmao no. More like the msm is going from extremely pro Israel to moderately pro Israel, if that.

Meanwhile Israeli ministers are calling for nuclear war.

To be strictly accurate, one minister.

Though appearing to sack them, whilst not doing so in reality, is typical Bibi cakeism.

[CumbrianLefty]

Why are you starting all these, what's wrong with posting this in the megathread?

[CumbrianLefty]

There is already a thread for this.

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=566181.3450

You said the same thing in there as well, so you don't need a new thread to give yourself more attention.

That's in another forum, which is not about U.S. politics. This is.

I think its OK for them to start this thread, no so sure about some others though.

[CumbrianLefty]

So, the outlines are becoming clearer now. Despite the Palestinians winning the war in certain corners of social media and some protests, in the actual situation on the ground the Israelis are winning.

Was anything else ever expected?

And hopefully that means this war can at least be paused soon.

[CumbrianLefty]

So, the outlines are becoming clearer now. Despite the Palestinians winning the war in certain corners of social media and some protests, in the actual situation on the ground the Israelis are winning.

Was anything else ever expected?

And hopefully that means this war can at least be paused soon.

But what happens afterwards? You now have millions of lividly enraged Arabs and palestinians who will only become more fervent in their vision to destroy the west. In 20 years or less, they could have enough transatlantic and European settlers to make 9/11 look like a good day.

It doesn't have to be that way with decent leadership (on all sides)

The present situation is partly because the outside world lost interest in the Middle East and let things fester - meanwhile Bibi played his "clever" game of boosting Islamists for his own short term gain.

If your intention is simply to dehumanise over a billion people, take your bile elsewhere.

[CumbrianLefty]

It's worth noting that Netanyahu hates this guy, who repeatedly has challenged him for Likud leadership, and he does not speak for the Israeli government. He's just a bomb-thrower on Twitter.

It says UN Ambassador and leader of Likud?

He was never "leader" or indeed anything close to that.

[CumbrianLefty]

If the Sandinistas are Hamas in Vosem’s analogy, then that means…

Its very obviously a ridiculous analogy in any case, not least because the Sandinistas agreed to a free and fair election and gave up power after losing it.

[CumbrianLefty]

I declare myself Leader of Likud.

My first act? Dissolution of the party.

As the kidz say, based

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1723060216629977157

I honestly fail to see why Israel should care about that. If the US and most of Western Europe stays on Israel's side, what consequence would befall it if the so called "Global South" despises it? I mean, isn't that already the case?

If support for Israel drops amongst the electorates of democratic countries, over time that will have an effect on governments who rely on their support.

[CumbrianLefty]

The thing is, Israel's PR being bad during wartime isn't actually new. Its almost as if they adopt a "no one likes us, we don't care" mentality - the Millwall FC of the Middle East?

[CumbrianLefty]

Netanyahu refuses to answer CNN on whether he would take responsibility for October 7 attack

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/12/middleeast/netanyahu-bash-interview-israel-hamas-war-intl/index.html

We all know he doesn't want to.

[CumbrianLefty]

Bibi hasn't let October 7 happen on purpose. He's merely incompetent.

No, by all means he let it happen to try and score a political win.

Not convinced its as cut and dried as that tbh. What he *did* do, it is beyond reasonable doubt now, was to prioritise his West Bank settler mates over security around Gaza.

[CumbrianLefty]

Now being reported that a hostages deal (though not a full blown ceasefire) was formulated a few days ago - but after initially appearing favourable, Netanyahu got cold feet and vetoed it.

He really does want this war to go on forever doesn't he?

[CumbrianLefty]

As I said, a ceasefire was not part of these proposals.

Bibi wants this war to continue indefinitely so he can cling to power.

Get. Him. Out.