Israel-Gaza war

[CumbrianLefty]

Can the pro-Palestine people please explain to me why Hamas should face no consequences for their actions?

A quite outstanding straw man, even for the "Israel right or wrong no matter what" brigade.

[CumbrianLefty]

The way that Israel has conducted this war is, completely and manifestly obviously, a choice. It really is bordering on absurdity to claim otherwise.

[CumbrianLefty]

I can't pretend to understand much about Israel politics, but it's hard to see how this is even close to a guarantee. Why couldn't the polity that selected Natanyahu in a time of relative peace replace him with someone as bad or worse?

Gantz is only slightly better than Netanyahu - he's pro-settlements (albeit just in the existing areas) and wants to retain large parts of the West Bank.

Really, as of 10-7, every political position to the left of that is beyond dead for the next few years if not decades.

I suppose the hope of people like me is that his ascension would be a comparatively calming influence on a white-hot situation that has massive potential for international flashpoints and spillover conflicts.

Its a bit like the argument about Russia "what's the point of hoping for Putin to go, when he will only be replaced by another hardliner?" Which misses the point that personalities also matter.

Even if Bibi gets succeeded by another hawk, they won't have his need to continue the war simply to stay in power - just as the next Russian leader (even if a fellow nationalist) won't have the same level of emotional investment in denying Ukraine should even be a thing.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes we all know that Hamas lies.

But using that to absolve Israel is wearing just a little thin now.

[CumbrianLefty]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

It may be hard for blind pro-Israel partisans like you to process, but "both sides bad" has effectively been the default position for many of us in this conflict for some time now.

The tragedy is that whilst both sides have right on their side to a degree, the sheer intractability of the dispute that has thus resulted has led to the worst rising to the top in both camps.

[CumbrianLefty]

Channel 14 is a pro-Netanyahu outlier poll.

Okay, fair enough.

Genuine question, did Horus not know this when they posted it? Its apparently a bit of a running joke in Israeli polling/political circles for exactly that reason, though I was also unaware of this until now.

[CumbrianLefty]

I am actually surprised we dropped peanut butter. Peanut butter itself isn't very common outside the US. Poor areas of the world do have less allergies but this seems like a disaster in the making with allergies. FWIW we did drop MRE's and not HDR's which are even more bland and usually don't have meat because its not really meant for Americans.

I think it is pretty common in Europe now (though this is admittedly a diversion from your main point)

[CumbrianLefty]

Is this unconditional or dependent on the release of the hostages? Because if it's the latter, it's merely symbolic.

Though in this situation, even symbolism has substance.

[CumbrianLefty]

Israel should ignore the Biden admin trying to bully countries to fight wars the way they want so he can win reelection.

Biden should ignore Netanyahu needlessly prolonging this war solely so that he can stay in power (and thus, very likely, out of prison)

See? The other side can do this too

[CumbrianLefty]

It is true that certain "very online" types are more prone to mental problems. Though whether one of those causes the other, is a classic "chicken and egg" type question.

Beyond that, though, generalisations are at least unwise and quite possibly offensive.

[CumbrianLefty]

Those saying this resolution being passed "means nothing" because fighting hasn't stopped yet, rather miss the point. What has just happened is a pretty big deal.

[CumbrianLefty]

Israel violating UN resolution by dropping bombs on Rafah.

https://twitter.com/mhdksafa/status/1772780840134553885

Again, Jews don't acknowledge the UN ordering us to lie down and die quietly. Now or ever.

Well the UN resolution is talking to Israel. Unless you're lying about where you live, you state via your avatar that you're a Democrat living in New Jersey. Since you state "ordering us to lie down and die quietly", the UN are not ordering you leaving aside your take on the comment because you're not a member of the Israeli state.

The claims that there's any meaningful difference anymore would be a lot more credible it it wasn't for the howling mobs intimidating worshippers in Teaneck every week.

This has been a constant since October, when the mobs launched their attacks within hours of the 10/7 genocide. A very clear message is being sent, and it's followed up with lies, and we're no longer listening.

The idea that the UN is ordering you to 'lay down and die' is Excessive Hyperbole and you know it.

Of course it is, but said poster knows little else.

[CumbrianLefty]

What does possessing nukes have to do with it?

Unless you are saying there are realistic circumstances in which they would actually be used.

[CumbrianLefty]

Bibi could be about to lose power (finally) due to domestic developments though.

In which case, his dragging Israel's wider reputation through the mud for such nakedly self interested reasons will look even more pointless. And his successors will be paying the price.

[CumbrianLefty]

Christians in Gaza don't believe in THE RAPTURE though, and so deserve to die.

[CumbrianLefty]

Netanyahu fell into Hamas's trap so bad. Israel has managed to turn a massacre of its own people into a global political defeat. Biden should have pushed hard for a permanent cease-fire months ago and all of this could have been prevented. Basically, what I've been saying for months, and what the cease-fire movement/protesters been saying all along. But we've been demonized as far left, unrealistic, and worse. Right now the Biden-Israel axis are just digging themselves a deeper and deeper hole. They don't want to stop digging because that would force them to recognize how deep they are. But they should think about cutting their losses.

All the signs are that the US are now at least tentatively trying to do that.

Netanyahu, however, sees endless war as the key to staying in power - and out of jail - indefinitely. He has the full backing of the "ItS in ThE bIbLe!!??!!!?!!!111!!!" Trumpian ghouls there as well.

[CumbrianLefty]

Multiple charities have announced that they're suspending deliveries after the attack on the WCK convoy:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/charities-halt-gaza-operations-after-israeli-drones-kill-aid-workers

So I guess that attack worked out as intended.

Let's not jump the gun and assume that was the intent here. While I do have quite a few issues with how Israel has conducted itself, I doubt that it's official IDF doctrine to target aid workers.

That said, I doubt this was just some random soldier. The order for strikes like this would have to come for middle-ranking officers at the lowest, as would the follow-up strikes, which are far less defensible.

I share your sentiment to some extent, but it's looking VERY bad for Israel here. World Central Kitchen was fully in contact with the IDF, kept them aware of their exact location and travel plans, and their vans were clearly marked on the top with their logo. This seems like Israel intentionally killing aid workers who were working to prevent widespread famine.

It does look like that, yes. Which still doesn't mean it actually *was* - but the onus is now on Israel to show otherwise rather than the other way round.

[CumbrianLefty]

I mean, its significant just that Israel isn't trying to cover this up like they normally do.

[CumbrianLefty]

Israeli military reduces troops in southern Gaza, spokesperson says

JERUSALEM, April 7 (Reuters) - The Israeli military has withdrawn all ground troops from the southern Gaza Strip except for one brigade, a military spokesperson said on Sunday.

The military did not immediately provide further details. It was unclear whether the withdrawal would delay a long-threatened incursion into the southern Gaza city of Rafah, which Israeli leaders have said is needed to eliminate Hamas.

The withdrawal comes as Egypt prepares to host a new round of talks aimed at reaching a ceasefire and hostage release deal.

Looks like the long awaited ceasefire is finally here. Interestingly, the fact that this is only in the South makes it clear that the strip might be permanently split.

Not sure about "permanently", indeed it is hard to see the international community accepting this.

[CumbrianLefty]

Six months today.

https://twitter.com/Hind_Gaza/status/1776211401297609030

Hey, quick question, what happened six months ago?

Something absolutely horrific and bestial.

But also something that does not give Israel a free pass to do whatever they want, forever.

[CumbrianLefty]

Sorry, but anybody genuinely suggesting that anyone who has criticised Israel's conduct of this war is urging them to "surrender" simply betrays their total lack of both seriousness and perspective.

If it is indeed true the remaining hostages are dead, that is both tragic and outrageous. But given the fact one of even Netanyahu's stated war aims is to enable their release, from a purely utilitarian point of view it removes one barrier to a ceasefire rather than the other way around.

[CumbrianLefty]

Some are suggesting Trump might follow Carlson and Owens in pivoting to a more anti-Israel stance. Though unlike them, he depends crucially on the support of evangelical Christians for his electoral coalition - and they are arguably the most fanatically pro-Israel group of all.

[CumbrianLefty]

The hostages may be dead, Hamas is definitely vile enough to kill them. Very possible. But why? They have every incentive to keep them alive, no valid reason to kill them.

Sadly, self-sabotage (and sabotage of the entire community they claim to represent) has been a key trait of groups like this for decades. Not just among the Palestinian cause, either - terrorists really seem to believe that if they hit a powerful nation painfully enough, they'll just surrender.

they wont they will go down fighting they need to take as a many civilian to make israel look like the bad guys

It has to be said that Israel often don't do such a bad job of that themselves, tbf.

[CumbrianLefty]

Iran is launching drones against Israel 😒
https://twitter.com/barakravid/status/1779232234542641600?s=12

I hope Israel's military will be able to shot them down, every single one.

To all Israeli posters (and literally any Israeli): Please stay safe.

Not quite every single one was shot down, but close.

With some help from Israel's friends. Who they should now listen to.

[CumbrianLefty]

Iran is launching drones against Israel 😒
https://twitter.com/barakravid/status/1779232234542641600?s=12

I hope Israel's military will be able to shot them down, every single one.

To all Israeli posters (and literally any Israeli): Please stay safe.

Not quite every single one was shot down, but close.

With some help from Israel's friends. Who they should now listen to.

That appears to be the Israel/US spin, which in turn will serve to give Israel a face-saving reason not to escalate, which in turn is a good thing. But I don't think that "everything was shot down" narrative will survive into the medium term (by which time 99.9% of the public will no longer be paying attention)

I didn't say everything, but nearly everything.

Which does still appear to be the case, pretty much.