Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[CumbrianLefty]

Annamie Paul has apparently left the Green Party?

[CumbrianLefty]

Certainly in Canada, possibly anywhere? Excluding literal micro-parties anyway.

[CumbrianLefty]

Honest perspectives on your party from political opponents aren't always worthless - but the operative word in that is *honest*. Too often, they are transparent self-interested bad faith takes.

[CumbrianLefty]

I get that O'Toole has a problem with his base, but I also don't think we should make the error of overstating how big that problem is. The longer Trudeau is in power, the more jaded the general public will get with his leadership. The fatigue will be real, widespread, and have huge electoral ramifications. In the past, going up against a conservative firebrand would have been the Liberals' best chance at holding onto support: Whip up fear around the Conservative leader and call it a day. The more normalized O'Toole becomes, and perhaps even the more at odds he is with the kooks in his party, the more comfortable some Canadians will feel turning away from Trudeau and trying something new.

The problem is that we don't know what is "normal" with Erin O'Toole, since shifting to the middle alienated the party base, and chances are he will be busy putting out fires on the right flank as long as he's leader. He hasn't found a way to convincingly respond to the social wedge issues that the right flank keep gifting to the Liberals on a silver plate.

IF the Liberals become as unpopular as the OLP under Kathleen Wynne, they might win regardless of their internal troubles, but we're a long way from there.

Are we really a long way from there? The affordability crisis is real, and there’s not much any government will ever be able to do with it, because out-of-reach real estate prices are a feature of the system, not a bug of the system. We are going to have a lot of pissed off people very soon. Add in a never-ending pandemic that Trudeau needs to keep deferring to the scientists on because it’s his brand, and people will be pissed. Trudeau is going to be backed into a corner on the pandemic in a way O’Toole will not be. O’Toole can be the alternative to out-of-touch Liberal elitism.

I think this could be worse for provincial governments.  Omicron is likely not the last variant we get and this will put provincial governments in a horrible bind.  Bring in another lockdown which people are tired of and won't go over well with majority who are vaccinated.  Or stay open and risk ICUs collapsing.  Fact Trudeau has no say over most public health restrictions probably helps as I think if he did he would be in a horrible pickle.  Much of the Liberal base are upper middle class professionals not heavily impacted by lockdowns so all for it as they are about following science.  But big part of Trudeau coalition in 2015 was millennials and they are most likely to be fatigued by restrictions.

Unless we get actual "vaccine escaping" variants (possible, but unlikely) it should be possible to avoid lockdowns without health services collapsing in well vaccinated countries (which Canada is) The truth is that lockdown was the appropriate response during the original pre-vaccine virus waves, but that is not the case now and governments should stop treating them as almost a routine event.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes......and??

[CumbrianLefty]

RIP Canada. Maybe in the short term the conservatives going far right helps the Liberals but no party can stay in power forever and eventually the trucker lunatic party will be in charge again.

The citizens WILL NOT vote in a crazy trucker party, at least, not unless they have a leader that condones the insanity. Canadians on average just do not approve of MAGA deplorable behaviour and won't vote in a Prime Minister that's okay with it.

As Laddicus Finch said, conseratives can't win the culture war up here.

I think you meant a similar but very different word there?

[CumbrianLefty]

Guys, surely Trudeau isn't going to call *another* snap election given how the most recent one gave him a genuine fright.

[CumbrianLefty]

In the end its not about winning or losing power.

As with the British Tories, the Canadian Tories becoming a full on Qanonized death cult in the manner of the GOP is not going to be a good thing - domestically or indeed for the wider world.

[CumbrianLefty]

Why are people constantly comparing BLM and Anti-Vaxx protests?

The majority of people approved of the BLM protests overall (but not the bad stuff) , found the protest's message moral, and hoped the movement continued. The majority of people do not approve of the anti-vaxx convoy, find the protest's message immoral, and hope the movement ends.

I will add that it's somewhat understandable that this is happening at the end of omicron, but 90% of these protestors felt the same way about ending all restrictions in 2021 and possibly even 2020, so that doesn't necessarily apply in all contests of the phrase "I agree with the protestors".

Sorry, you don’t get to decide what’s moral or not.  Also, the polls are rigged.  These protests have been largely peaceful. 

A good chunk of them have been terrorizing the city and the residents want them gone. Including a lot of residents that aren't particularly political. The mall had to shut down because they can't justify becoming an omicron hot spot and facing a class action lawsuit from all the employees that work there.

I didn’t hear you saying this when BLM burned down entire cities last year.  Why do you suddenly care about lives and property?  Cause it fits your political agenda?  Hilarious.

Hyperbole alert.

[CumbrianLefty]

No, most polling is not "rigged" (and its usually pretty obvious when it actually *is*)

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/brianlilley/status/1493069729124257793?cxt=HHwWgsC41cHAubgpAAAA


But according to leftists , Trump was a fascist for wanting to invoke the insurrection act to stop violent rioting in this nation.


When will we see MSNBC and CNN go on a moral outrage over this

Trump is quite fashy anyway, though.

[CumbrianLefty]

Trudeau Derangement Syndrome really is a thing, just this thread shows that

[CumbrianLefty]

They are going to end up barring people from banking for life, without due process
https://twitter.com/drrollergator/status/1493738584884404227?s=20&t=owkJARet...

There should be a general strike in Canada

This is better known as a standard far left demand, you know.

[CumbrianLefty]

I'm not sure what it says that the poll I've seen on the imposition of the Emergencies Act was at 51% in favor and 42% against.  

In 1970, outside of Quebec anyway, I believe support for the imposition of the War Measures Act to deal with the FLQ was around 90%.

Around the same time, from the book Turning Point: 1968 by Irwin Unger and Debi Unger (Page 499): A Harris Poll soon after the Democratic Convention (in Chicago) showed that 66% of Americans agreed with the statement "Mayor Daley was right the way he used police against demonstrators."

The police action was shown on live television and was later described by an investigating commission as a 'police riot.'

Polling in the US also showed massive support for the Kent State Massacre - several rang phone-ins to say their only regret was that even more "bums" hadn't been killed.

[CumbrianLefty]

Scotland was never one of the best Tory areas in the UK, and could last be meaningfully described as "leaning" towards them in the 1950s. It is true, though, that Thatcher augmented their decline there.

[CumbrianLefty]

Indeed, he should go because he is an ineffective leader.

[CumbrianLefty]

Canada has basically defined itself against its more powerful neighbour since, well, forever really?

(and its not just a thing on their "left" either)

[CumbrianLefty]

In case it isn't extremely clear already, most Canadians have no desire to see Canada become part of the USA. No desire at all.

I'm totally sure this is true, but has there ever been polling on the issue?

[CumbrianLefty]

Grim stuff, and a high death toll for something not involving guns.

[CumbrianLefty]

Example A of how gun control does not stop mass killings. 

No, it just makes them a lot less common.

(and as already said, this number of dead is rare in knife crime - but routine in shootings)

[CumbrianLefty]

Did you support Donald Trump?

I will love to see your reaction when Pierre Poilievre, the French Trump, wins in a landslide, which he certainly will provided there isn't massive voter fraud.  We will Make Canada Great Again! 

I assume this is facetious, but with your ilk one never knows

[CumbrianLefty]

Peterson grifting? Say it ain't so!

[CumbrianLefty]

Wasn't the previous Canadian Greens leadership actually very pro-Jewish?

[CumbrianLefty]

Genuine question - how is Singh still there?

The NDP's result last time was underwhelming on any reasonably objective criteria.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yeah, have there really been no white people killing others in Canada recently?