COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Hammy]

It's clear that some on the so-called left are just as bad as those on the right. Wearing a f-cking mask in a grocery store isn't harming anyone. Vaccines and masks together have the potential to crush this virus, but so many want to relinquish some of our best tools.

The problem is that you have one group who has done both of these, and one group who has refused to do either--and so many here are directing their rage at the vaccinated people who no longer wish to wear masks, rather than the unvaccinated who are both refusing to vaccinate and would similarly simply refuse to follow mask mandates.

Shout out to my fellow fully vaccinateds who have still been wearing a mask and socially distancing while in public.

Don't include me in this, I've been socially distancing since long before the pandemic because people have no concept of personal space.

That sounds more like social anxiety than anything else tbh.

I'm unfortunate enough to have all three-social anxiety, generalized anxiety (which has worsened during the pandemic), and panic disorder (also worsened through various unrelated life events) so I've always tried keeping my distance in densely crowded areas. Lines are especially troublesome as I get squeezed between a bunch of people.

This would've been an advantage had the pandemic not made me too nervous to go out in the first place

[Hammy]

Where can you find out if your county is high or substantial transmission?

If you look up 'covid cases' followed by your state in google it'll give you a graphic with a menu where you can just type it in and bring it up--that's what I've been using.

[Hammy]

This is basically the teacher punishing the entire class for the behavior of a few bad apples.

The CDC is also undermining its credibility through this move. Now, we're going to see the anti-vaxxers say that they are "vindicated" by this, and the alarmists will be "vindicated" also. Both groups will claim that the vaccine is ineffective. I will be very angry if my workplace decides to reimpose its mask requirement, and if mask mandates return to Colorado. This is the kind of thing I could see having a detrimental effect politically in next year's midterms.

It seems with Trump, the CDC guidance ceased to operate based on science, Biden has continued this. Unless this administration is willing to a-mandate vaccines, or b-enforce mask mandates for the unvaccinated, all of this is nothing but 'look like we're doing something with the lowest possible effort' and is no different than cops busting people for an ounce of pot while letting larger drug rings go unpunished.

[Hammy]

Right now the graph of new cases in Britain is pretty much a vertical line downward.

What's interesting there as well is the expected dramatic rise in deaths never materialized. The fact that you have nearly half the population (possibly more than that in the UK) vaccinated is vastly reducing the viral load that even the unvaccinated are exposed to.

[Hammy]

Biden will announce vaccination requirement across federal government on Thursday

President Joe Biden will announce on Thursday a requirement that all federal employees and contractors be vaccinated against Covid-19, or be required to submit to regular testing and mitigation requirements, according to a source with direct knowledge of the matter.

The announcement will come in remarks where Biden is also expected to lay out a series of new steps, including incentives, in an attempt to spur new vaccinations as the Delta variant spreads rapidly throughout the country. It will also follow the decision by the Department of Veterans Affairs to require its frontline health care workers to be vaccinated over the course of the next two months.

Biden alluded to the looming announcement on Tuesday.

"That's under consideration right now," Biden said, when asked if he would impose a vaccination mandate on federal workers.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/27/politics/vaccine-mandate-for-federal-employees-under-consideration/index.html

Good. With this, hopefully Pelosi wises up and reopens the Capitol.

I still suspect the capitol being closed is related to Jan 6, even if they're using covid as the public excuse.

[Hammy]

I’ll stop wearing a mask when we have this thing under control. I really don’t understand what is so offensive to some of the blue avatars on here about wearing a mask when you go out. You’re protecting yourself by doing so, and isn’t that the only thing righties care about (themselves)?

I will preempt this with the fact that I am speaking only for the vaccinated.

Most people, regardless of party at this point, are opposed to mask mandates. Constantly wearing a mask is uncomfortable, especially when it starts getting warm and humid. I have terrible anxiety which leads me to wear one if I'm out, purely to remove the endless, irrational, intrusive 'what if' from my conscious (plus the air quality has been downright awful here lately so I've also been wearing them when stepping outside)--but it still worsens eczema that I have around my nose.

A large percentage of people who received vaccinations did so in order to bring some normalcy to their life. I maintain that suddenly mandating masks for the vaccinated again for the vaccinated--especially as the unvaccinated will continue to ignore them--will do nothing but result in reduced vaccination rates and further spread of COVID, far beyond what we're already seeing.

The overwhelming majority of people are not going to do something when told it will allow them to avoid doing something they don't enjoy, only to be told they must do it anyway.

[Hammy]

Pfizer data suggest third dose of Covid-19 vaccine 'strongly' boosts protection against Delta variant

A third dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine can "strongly" boost protection against the Delta variant -- beyond the protection afforded by the standard two doses, suggests new data released by Pfizer on Wednesday.

The data posted online, which are expected to be discussed in a company earnings call on Wednesday morning, suggest that antibody levels against the Delta variant in people ages 18 to 55 who receive a third dose of vaccine are greater than five-fold than following a second dose.

Among people ages 65 to 85, the Pfizer data suggest that antibody levels against the Delta variant after receiving a third dose of vaccine are greater than 11-fold than following a second dose.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html

Booster shots are on the way, it seems. I'm not sure how much success they are going to have given that vaccination rates for the two shots we have already have plateaued, and given that the unvaccinated segment of our population seems to be unshakable at this point.

A third booster (and fourth, and as many as are needed down the road given there will always be variants, and even the flu vaccine is 'updated' every year) would still likely be accepted by most people who are fully vaccinated, especially if this administration stops acting like some sort of inverted Trumpism and lets vaccinated people get on with their lives. And given the protection seems almost exponential, that would almost certainly isolate this to the unvaccinated, even regarding asymptomatic cases--especially given that an exponential increase with each dose would dramatically spread out the time between to where it would probably not be needed more than twice a year.

And at this stage I'm in favor of revoking citizenship for anyone who continues to refuse a vaccine.

[Hammy]

As someone who got J+J, to my understanding the most popular vaccine worldwide, it annoys me to no end to be left out of these booster studies.

With Pfizer now widely available, what would happen if I got Pfizer as well?  What if I got just the Pfizer booster?  What about a J+J booster?

I'm less-protected than everyone else and I'd like to fix that.

There was a study some time back, though I don't have it readily available to post, that people who only got the J+J can be further protected with a dose of the Pfizer or Moderna. I would ask a doctor just to be sure as I don't remember if the study was published, or if the article mentioned they were beginning the investigative study. But it does appear there's an avenue there either way.

[Hammy]

'Stop trying to tell people how to live their lives': Gov. Ricketts responds to new CDC mask guidance

In a statement issued Tuesday, Gov. Pete Ricketts came out against new mask guidance issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“The CDC’s new guidance suggesting that vaccinated people wear masks indoors flies in the face of the public health goals that should guide the agency’s decision making. The CDC announcement only furthers the distrust many have with the CDC and does not help to encourage more people to get the vaccines that are helping bring the pandemic to a conclusion. The State of Nebraska will not be adopting their mask guidance.”

"Schools should convene in person without mask or vaccine requirements," says Ricketts.

Ricketts also said in the statement Tuesday that "it is time for the CDC and the government to get out of the way, and stop trying to tell people how to live their lives."

'Stop trying to tell people how to live their lives' says the party that does nothing but. The people who are actively spreading the virus out of refusal to even get a shot have no right to an opinion here.

[Hammy]

"J&J must be paused due to a 1 in million chance of a "blood clot"".

The pause was explicitly because J&J did not follow guidelines by listing the clotting as a potential side effect during the approval process, and in fact denied they were happening at all. If you withhold information on side effects (even if there's literally only one occurrence) in order to get faster approval you're going to run into trouble.

If Pfizer for example had not disclosed that it makes your arm sore and gone on a campaign denying it, or even antihistamines denying they make you drowsy, they too would've been paused and needed reapproval once the side effect guidelines were updated.

I never said vaccines don't work. 80% efficacy or whatever it is now is still much better than 0%. However, the prior messaging convinced many, including most on this forum, that the vaccine is an impenetrable COVID-repelling force field that would allow one to do anything safely with no protection. This was never true, but while in May it could be classified as a mild exaggeration, now with the Delta variant it is outright false and a dangerous lie. I applaud Joe Biden for having the courage to risk political blowback in order to do the right thing and allowing the CDC to amend the guidance.

I also never called for closing businesses or bringing back social distancing restrictions. Those cause economic damage while masks cause zero economic damage. You can go back through my posts in this forum, in May I called for removing the social distancing restrictions while retaining the mask mandate. Social distancing is absolutely not sustainable for long periods of time while masking should be.

First, the bold is nothing less than gaslighting. Literally nobody here has ever pretended the vaccines are 100% effective, but people like you are certainly acting like they don't work.

Second, masks are not 'zero cost' because the fact that they are unpleasant is significantly limiting how often and where I'm willing to go--and I'm wearing one on an entirely voluntary basis. Restaurants do not get my businesses, malls will not, places I would've frequented often will only get my business a few times a month, etc. My eczema is also worse than it's ever been (worsened by the fact that I need one to go outdoors at all lately due to poor air quality).

While I'm continuing to wear one purely due to uncontrollable anxiety, if masks are mandated you're going to see tens of millions move vaccinated people like me, who refuse to go to various businesses because it's simply not worth the discomfort.  Not to mention the cloth masks (which most are wearing) have been proven largely ineffective, rendering a mask mandate even more pointless.

[Hammy]

If numbers spike (still an if - look at what happened to Delta surges in London and India), it is indeed a massive failure by the Biden administration.

If numbers spike, it's a massive failure by unvaccinated Americans that will by and large only harm other unvaccinated Americans. Nothing to do with the Biden administration.

Going with mask guidance that will have no impact aside from lowering vaccination rates and breeding distrust in them is absolutely on the Biden Admin.

[Hammy]

Can anyone explain how badly (or not) I need to worry about Delta right now, being in north Georgia?

I'm fully vaccinated (Moderna, in January and again in February).  But my anxiety level has risen considerably over the last week or so.

If severe infection/hospitalization is what you're concerned with, then you're probably still fine, although the chance of it has increased a bit from "may not even be worth thinking about" to "very unlikely but probably worth at least considering".

If you'd like to avoid infection entirely, though, then it's probably time to consider changing your behavior to mask up indoors and avoid risky activities like dining indoors or attending unmasked gatherings. Delta is both much more contagious and has shown greater capability of causing breakthrough infections than prior variants. Also keep in mind that being bedridden for a week with a fever and feeling like complete trash, losing sense of smell and taste, and possibly suffering long term effects is still a "mild" infection if it didn't involve shortness of breath or a hospital trip.

Reported for outright misinformation

[Hammy]

Can anyone explain how badly (or not) I need to worry about Delta right now, being in north Georgia?

I'm fully vaccinated (Moderna, in January and again in February).  But my anxiety level has risen considerably over the last week or so.

I would say the risk is low, but depending on how bad the anxiety level is it wouldn't hurt to at least keep one with you if nothing else as a stopgap against intrusive worry, as is my case.

[Hammy]

Can anyone explain how badly (or not) I need to worry about Delta right now, being in north Georgia?

I'm fully vaccinated (Moderna, in January and again in February).  But my anxiety level has risen considerably over the last week or so.

If severe infection/hospitalization is what you're concerned with, then you're probably still fine, although the chance of it has increased a bit from "may not even be worth thinking about" to "very unlikely but probably worth at least considering".

If you'd like to avoid infection entirely, though, then it's probably time to consider changing your behavior to mask up indoors and avoid risky activities like dining indoors or attending unmasked gatherings. Delta is both much more contagious and has shown greater capability of causing breakthrough infections than prior variants. Also keep in mind that being bedridden for a week with a fever and feeling like complete trash, losing sense of smell and taste, and possibly suffering long term effects is still a "mild" infection if it didn't involve shortness of breath or a hospital trip.

Reported for outright misinformation

You're full of it. I'm reporting your post right back. Read 'em and weep:

Mild Illness: Individuals who have any of the various signs and symptoms of COVID-19 (e.g., fever, cough, sore throat, malaise, headache, muscle pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of taste and smell) but who do not have shortness of breath, dyspnea, or abnormal chest imaging.

Moderate Illness: Individuals who show evidence of lower respiratory disease during clinical assessment or imaging and who have an oxygen saturation (SpO2) ≥94% on room air at sea level.

Severe Illness: Individuals who have SpO2 <94% on room air at sea level, a ratio of arterial partial pressure of oxygen to fraction of inspired oxygen (PaO2/FiO2) <300 mm Hg, respiratory frequency >30 breaths/min, or lung infiltrates >50%.

Critical Illness: Individuals who have respiratory failure, septic shock, and/or multiple organ dysfunction.  

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clinical-spectrum/

Zero vaccinated people have shown up at long covid clinics, so again your posts are nothing short of scaremongering and vaccine denialism.

I'm spitting straight facts, always sourced, and you seem to be unable to accept them, relying instead on outdated information or outright lies. Mighty Trumpist of you. How many red hats do you have in your closet? Do you think Biden won the 2020 election fairly?

Quote removed by moderator.

Quote removed by moderator - keep this on topic.

You have repeatedly characterized literally everything short of hospitalization as mild, which is simply false. You also notably left out that mild does not include shortness of breath, contrary to what you have repeatedly claimed, based on your own source:

Mild Illness
Patients with mild illness may exhibit a variety of signs and symptoms (e.g., fever, cough, sore throat, malaise, headache, muscle pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of taste and smell). They do not have shortness of breath, dyspnea on exertion, or abnormal imaging.

[Hammy]

No, go read the NIH's definition and my post again, which you're literally quoting. As I said before, everything short of hospitalization or shortness of breath is a mild case; dyspnea is the same thing as shortness of breath and nobody would get "abnormal chest imaging" unless they were already hospitalized. All the typical unpleasant symptoms, fever, malaise, vomiting, loss of smell/taste, muscle aches, etc, all mild symptoms.

Just because you yell something loudly doesn't make it true. Quite Trumpist of you to think that it does.

By the way, the definition of a "mild" infection is one that doesn't require hospitalization. If you're bedridden for a week with a high fever, lose your sense of smell and taste, and have lingering symptoms like breathing issues, brain fog, and continue lack of smell and taste for months afterward, that was still a mild infection.

So in one post you claim lingering trouble breathing is mild, yet in another you claim that you've always said that everything short of that is mild. A high grade fever is also not mild, as that alone often warrants a visit to the emergency room.

Contradicting yourself in a public place in a way that's easy to prove is very Trumpist.

[Hammy]

No, go read the NIH's definition and my post again, which you're literally quoting. As I said before, everything short of hospitalization or shortness of breath is a mild case; dyspnea is the same thing as shortness of breath and nobody would get "abnormal chest imaging" unless they were already hospitalized. All the typical unpleasant symptoms, fever, malaise, vomiting, loss of smell/taste, muscle aches, etc, all mild symptoms.

Just because you yell something loudly doesn't make it true. Quite Trumpist of you to think that it does.

By the way, the definition of a "mild" infection is one that doesn't require hospitalization. If you're bedridden for a week with a high fever, lose your sense of smell and taste, and have lingering symptoms like breathing issues, brain fog, and continue lack of smell and taste for months afterward, that was still a mild infection.

So in one post you claim lingering trouble breathing is mild, yet in another you claim that you've always said that everything short of that is mild. A high grade fever is also not mild, as that alone often warrants a visit to the emergency room.

Contradicting yourself in a public place in a way that's easy to prove is very Trumpist.

I acknowledged the first definition was incorrect, you conveniently didn't quote that post. In every post subsequent to it, I used the correct definition. But of course you had to make yourself look like a Trumpist fool, not bother to read what I post, and quoting repeatedly when I use the correct definition.

Your definition keeps changing, as if you hope people will forget. And calling everyone Trumpist because they won't bow to your harassment campaign is the best way to make sure nobody takes you as anything but a troll who is hellbent on derailing the thread.

[Hammy]

No, go read the NIH's definition and my post again, which you're literally quoting. As I said before, everything short of hospitalization or shortness of breath is a mild case; dyspnea is the same thing as shortness of breath and nobody would get "abnormal chest imaging" unless they were already hospitalized. All the typical unpleasant symptoms, fever, malaise, vomiting, loss of smell/taste, muscle aches, etc, all mild symptoms.

Just because you yell something loudly doesn't make it true. Quite Trumpist of you to think that it does.

By the way, the definition of a "mild" infection is one that doesn't require hospitalization. If you're bedridden for a week with a high fever, lose your sense of smell and taste, and have lingering symptoms like breathing issues, brain fog, and continue lack of smell and taste for months afterward, that was still a mild infection.

So in one post you claim lingering trouble breathing is mild, yet in another you claim that you've always said that everything short of that is mild. A high grade fever is also not mild, as that alone often warrants a visit to the emergency room.

Contradicting yourself in a public place in a way that's easy to prove is very Trumpist.

I acknowledged the first definition was incorrect, you conveniently didn't quote that post. In every post subsequent to it, I used the correct definition. But of course you had to make yourself look like a Trumpist fool, not bother to read what I post, and quoting repeatedly when I use the correct definition.

Your definition keeps changing, as if you hope people will forget. And calling everyone Trumpist because they won't bow to your harassment campaign is the best way to make sure nobody takes you as anything but a troll who is hellbent on derailing the thread.

I changed the definition because the first one I used was wrong. But you couldn't even be bothered to read and then quoted the right definition and called it misinformation and then got punked by a simple link. It's not my fault I got to dunk in your face.

So you're only interested in dunking and I'm arguing with an immature troll, got it.

[Hammy]

Regarding the chart, that seems in line with a general reduction in deaths among unvaccinated individuals rather than a dramatic decrease in vaccine efficiency, given the CDC's graph still shows a very strong protection, and the total deaths per case increase is a third of what it was when we reached this point with the last wave.

I do have to wonder as far as more severe breakthrough cases how many of these are either elderly (who are generally more at risk from any infection) or nursing/hospital workers or people caring for sick (likely unvaccinated) family, who would be exposed to a much larger and more consistent viral load--has there been any study on this?

[Hammy]

Due to this fact, if you are young and healthy and thinking about your own personal risk, I would be more worried about the possibility of long COVID as compared to hospitalization/death per se.

I already have chronic fatigue, allergies, IBS and sleep issues so that would probably just blend into the general misery I've been in the last decade or so anyway, which I guess can either be good or bad depending on how you look at it.

But also, if there were a great decrease in efficacy, one would expect it to show up in later/newer data, not in the earlier data, both because more time will have elapsed since vaccinations, and also because delta will be more prevalent. At the least, the mRNA vaccines seem to be quite effective (remarkably so!) for at least the first 6 months or so.

I'm freshly vaccinated so if there is in fact a decline in strength over time (something I honestly assumed would be the case from the outset) hopefully they will have approved a third dose/interval booster doses by that point.

[Hammy]

In other words: The CDC’s reversa was not based on nothing like so many arrogant posters have been saying. If you want to be mad, be mad at the virus itself, don’t shoot the messenger for simply doing their job.

They lost all credibility when they lifted the mask guidance and suggested an honor system for unvaccinated in the first place as that was a purely political decision, so personally I'm going to be highly skeptical of anything that follows. And I remain skeptical of the change in guidance here for that reason--It's all about political pressure.

I change my mind when we have either enforced mask mandates for the unvaccinated, or vaccinate mandates.

[Hammy]

To you, the CDC lost all credibility in May when they said vaccinated don't need to wear masks? The guidance change that everyone here agreed is tantamount to recommending mask mandates be rescinded, because there is no practical way to enforce a vaccination-dependent mask mandate? So you're in favor of mask mandates now? What the hell have you been arguing for the last week then?

They lost all credibility when they lifted the mask guidance and suggested an honor system for unvaccinated in the first place as that was a purely political decision

Learn to read, context is important. A rushed lifting of guidance was done with little notice--many in the various agencies had less than 24h notice. Whether the decision was right or wrong down the road doesn't matter--it was made with too little haste to have taken anything beyond public opinion into account. And the honor system suggestion treated the unvaccinated as if they were upstanding citizens who would never lie about their status rather than the selfish delusional hypocrites that they are. The current guidance is an overcorrection. This will also be my last reply on this argument in this thread as I don't wish to derail it further.

https://twitter.com/bizboyle/status/1421183076743401482

The trend is gaining steam.

October 4 is an awful long time given how easily available vaccines are and how much more these people can spread it in the meantime.

[Hammy]

One positive of this epidemic is that it may finally be opening people’s eyes to how pernicious and corrupt public sector unions really are. Disgusting people.
https://twitter.com/kimmaicutler/status/1421197752344535040?s=21

If you work in a hospital, police station, nursing home or school, you should not be able to unionize. The pandemic has shown unions to be antiquated and nothing but unnecessary red tape.

It's San Francisco--I wouldn't use them as the basis to judge all public sector unions.

[Hammy]

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1421229518749044739

My favorite four words to describe the media prove to be fitting once again.

Their behavior during COVID plays a big part in why I hate them so much. 

I had to go digging through the CDC report for that reason to get a grasp on what's actually going on--the way some media is talking about it almost sounds like they're treating the vaccines as useless.

[Hammy]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

https://www.masslive.com/capecod/2021/07/how-provincetown-achieved-a-114-vaccination-rate.html

I Found the study and the numbers. 469 cases, of which 346 were vaccinated. The town has a 114% vaccination rate (the second article explains this better than I ever can) so this is in one of the most vaccinated places in the country.

346 breakthrough cases in a town of around 3000, spread by several large public gatherings (aka superspreader events--these weren't just people going out and about to the store or whatever) brought in by over 100 unmasked unvaccinated people.

I felt this warranted posting as the media is treating the vaccines as if they aren't working and obsessing over the "74% were vaccinated!" number without providing proper context.

There were probably less unvaccinated people in total in the town than there were cases based on what I'm looking at.

[Hammy]

CNN actually has good article out talking about how misguided and misleading most coverage of breakthrough cases has been.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/media/variant-media-coverage-white-house/index.html

Also talks about why the CDC guidance was updated:

"The reason why the guidance is changing is that Covid-19 is spreading really quickly, Delta is a big problem, and the reason for the spread is because of the unvaccinated." Wen said the primary reason the CDC needed to change its mask guidance is because the honor system wasn't working. In other words, people who were not vaccinated were acting as if they were and not wearing masks or following other basic safety protocols...]"The reason why the guidance is changing is that Covid-19 is spreading really quickly, Delta is a big problem, and the reason for the spread is because of the unvaccinated." Wen said the primary reason the CDC needed to change its mask guidance is because the honor system wasn't working. In other words, people who were not vaccinated were acting as if they were and not wearing masks or following other basic safety protocols...