Opinion of Jesus Christ

[JSojourner]

The only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end. 

[JSojourner]

Oh no doubt.  I agree with you 100%.  I was just pointing out that Jesus wouldn't have preferred the govt to solve the problem, He would want us to do it.  Jesus was a kind individualist, not a bleeding heart socialist.

This is the problem I have with false choices.  The Bible is pretty clear that solving these problems is everyone's job.  Church, individuals and government.  The judgment of the nations in Matthew 25 is key.  "Whatever you did for the least of these, you did to me."  If Jesus is speaking to individuals, what happens to the Christian doctrine that we are saved by grace and not works?  More, the Greek word for "nations" implies a group judgment.  "Ethnos" specifically implies that rulers and legislators are enjoined, with individuals, to the task of ending poverty, comforting the sick and visiting prisoners.

The Old Testament  reinforces this in Amos, Isaiah, Jeremiah and elsewhere.  Kings, rulers, leaders and individuals are all held accountable, judged and punished for refusing to aid the poor and the marginalized.  Jeremiah 22 is particularly instructive.  There, Kings and rulers are called to the gate of the city to hear the word of God and are told that the previous King "knew the Lord" because he treated workers with justice, fed the poor and so on..."rather than paneling his walls with fine cedar".

The problem I have is that liberals say it's all government's job, as though individuals (including the poor themselves) have no responsibility in the matter.  The problem I have with conservatives and libertarians is that they say it's all the work of churches and individuals, as though government has no responsibility in the matter.  It's an either-or, false choice that I refuse to accept on Biblical grounds.

[JSojourner]

Oh no doubt.  I agree with you 100%.  I was just pointing out that Jesus wouldn't have preferred the govt to solve the problem, He would want us to do it.  Jesus was a kind individualist, not a bleeding heart socialist.

This is the problem I have with false choices.  The Bible is pretty clear that solving these problems is everyone's job.  Church, individuals and government.  The judgment of the nations in Matthew 25 is key.  "Whatever you did for the least of these, you did to me."  If Jesus is speaking to individuals, what happens to the Christian doctrine that we are saved by grace and not works?  More, the Greek word for "nations" implies a group judgment.  "Ethnos" specifically implies that rulers and legislators are enjoined, with individuals, to the task of ending poverty, comforting the sick and visiting prisoners.

The Old Testament  reinforces this in Amos, Isaiah, Jeremiah and elsewhere.  Kings, rulers, leaders and individuals are all held accountable, judged and punished for refusing to aid the poor and the marginalized.  Jeremiah 22 is particularly instructive.  There, Kings and rulers are called to the gate of the city to hear the word of God and are told that the previous King "knew the Lord" because he treated workers with justice, fed the poor and so on..."rather than paneling his walls with fine cedar".

The problem I have is that liberals say it's all government's job, as though individuals (including the poor themselves) have no responsibility in the matter.  The problem I have with conservatives and libertarians is that they say it's all the work of churches and individuals, as though government has no responsibility in the matter.  It's an either-or, false choice that I refuse to accept on Biblical grounds.

You win this round Batman!  Excellent points.

Nah, you keep holding our feet to the fire.  We are idiots if we think it's up to government alone or that the poor themselves bear no responsibility.  This is why liberals need strong conservative and libertarian voices to keep us honest.  I hate that this tension exists in our country -- and yet, I shudder to think about what it would be without it!

As to Torie's comment about legislating from the Bible, I basically agree.  I think one can draw one's philosophy of governing from sacred writ, without legislating from it, however.  But he's spot-on.  It's a terribly slippery slope.