CPRM, Pt 3: LA 11/6

[Zaybay]

I also dont think that you understand the implications of this. The ones who are winning in the state legislature are not party sympathizers, but progressives, and with these victories, its official, the Progressives now outnumber the State Party. With this, they effectively control the agenda, and can write the bills. Unless Cuomo just wants to veto every Progressive bill coming out of the state senate, the progressives definitely won downballot, and the party took some serious hits.

I am willing to bet good money, the legislature will write exactly the bills Andrew Cuomo will want to sign - and no others. He will very happily be setting the agenda for his 2020 campaign. He is a mainstream Dem, and a few nice socially progressive reforms will only be welcomed by him. But if you are expecting a revolution of some sort - that will die long before he has to veto anyting whatsoever

Great victory for Mario Andrew Cuomo. Daddy would be proud!

Not expecting a revolution, but I think you should turn around and look at what Cuomo became during the primary. He went very left, and even supported abolishing ICE. Of course, Cuomo will still hold sway over what happens, but its not a powerful grip, and many of his allies in the state senate lost today. The "anti-Cuomosits" won in many seats, and they now represent a majority in both chambers. I am expecting a more progressive agenda, and some fighting between Cuomo and the legislature.

Also, if he runs in 2020, he falls on his face. I mean, it would probably be just as bad as Biden's performance in 2008.

"Abolishing ICE" is exactly the sort of a position that can easily be adopted by any sensible Dem without any ideological problem whatsoever. I mean, ICE is a relatively new agency to begin with (remember the good old INS of my young days?) It has become controversial - get rid of it. Merging some of ICE, CBP and USCIS and calling it something else would not be a problem whatsoever, and it does sound nice. And, in any case, a Governor can do exactly nothing about it - even saying this is a part of a presidential campaign, not of this one

Once Dem majorities in both chambers are established, they will fight for the honor of cooperating with the governor on implementing his reform program.

Ok, so you are right that he cant do anything about ICE. But he has implimented many other reforms, such as
-higher minimum wage
-environmental standards
-Kicking ICE out of the state(he can do that)
among others

Anyway, most of your argument is based on the probables and the maybes, if we look at the actual political standing of the chambers, both are now Progressive dominated, and, just as the State house rebelled constantly against Cuomo, I doubt the State senate will just submit, especially since the IDC puppet is gone.

[Zaybay]

Something to keep in mind is that Cuomo for whatever reason believes that he can win the nomination  in 2020. It's why he has marched left at a break-neck pace. If the Republicans somehow maintain control in 2019, even after Dems gain the five or more expected seats in the senate, then it negatively affects Cuomo's 2020 bid. After all, the results tonight show that democrats are fine with moderates, but intolerant of traitors in the Trump era.

Please point to the moderates who won, because all I see is a Liberal AG, a moderate LG, and a suddenly super progressive Governor who wants to abolish ICE, and raised the minimum wage, and whatnot. The state party won at the top, not the moderates.

Oh and Cuomo is a obvious moderate who, as I said, has tacked left in preparation for a 2020 bid.

true, but my overall point is that the state didnt really seem to vote based on moderateVSprogressive, that was the case downballot, but not at the top. It seems more geographical than political at the top.

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Cuomo is a snake, is what Im getting at, someone who will do anything to stay in power. If that means bowing to the Progressive state legislature so he doesnt look bad, then thats what he does. I mean, he already has bowed to Progressives in many issues due to Nixon, and now that 7 moderates have been replaced with DSA/Progressives, hes going to have a much harder time controlling them, if at all.

[Zaybay]

Cuomo is a snake, is what Im getting at, someone who will do anything to stay in power. If that means bowing to the Progressive state legislature so he doesnt look bad, then thats what he does. I mean, he already has bowed to Progressives in many issues due to Nixon, and now that 7 moderates have been replaced with DSA/Progressives, hes going to have a much harder time controlling them, if at all.

Is calling a decent human being a "snake" consistent with the rules of this forum? It would be very unfortunate, if you were to be reported

At this point of his career, Cuomo is not thinking about staying in power, but about gaining it elsewhere (whether he will run, or, like his father, chicken out, is another matter). The governor, who made gay marriage the law of New York, does not need self-styled progressives in the state legislature to push him anywhere He will negotiate with the party leadership in both chambers and he will get exactly what he wants

Starting to think that you just really like Cuomo, to which I say that he will likely stay governor for a while now. But, as I said before, that doesnt change the political situation that has developed.

[Zaybay]

Cuomo is a snake, is what Im getting at, someone who will do anything to stay in power. If that means bowing to the Progressive state legislature so he doesnt look bad, then thats what he does. I mean, he already has bowed to Progressives in many issues due to Nixon, and now that 7 moderates have been replaced with DSA/Progressives, hes going to have a much harder time controlling them, if at all.

Is calling a decent human being a "snake" consistent with the rules of this forum? It would be very unfortunate, if you were to be reported

At this point of his career, Cuomo is not thinking about staying in power, but about gaining it elsewhere (whether he will run, or, like his father, chicken out, is another matter). The governor, who made gay marriage the law of New York, does not need self-styled progressives in the state legislature to push him anywhere He will negotiate with the party leadership in both chambers and he will get exactly what he wants

Starting to think that you just really like Cuomo, to which I say that he will likely stay governor for a while now. But, as I said before, that doesnt change the political situation that has developed.

I sincerely hope that he is only the governor for the next two years

The main political change in NY is that bipartisanship is out - that is the real change. So, now this will be NY Democratic machine politics - and that is not such a big change.

If you mean he resigns his seat for a 1% PV vote in the presidential primary, then I agree with you, but Im pretty sure he just stays put.

And, as I said before, the R senate was a Cuomo creation, so what really happened was that Cuomo lost his barrier. As I said before, the progressives/anti-Cuomos know represent more than his loyalists, so its unlikely he will maintain a large grip over the state.

[Zaybay]

Cuomo is a snake, is what Im getting at, someone who will do anything to stay in power. If that means bowing to the Progressive state legislature so he doesnt look bad, then thats what he does. I mean, he already has bowed to Progressives in many issues due to Nixon, and now that 7 moderates have been replaced with DSA/Progressives, hes going to have a much harder time controlling them, if at all.

Is calling a decent human being a "snake" consistent with the rules of this forum? It would be very unfortunate, if you were to be reported

At this point of his career, Cuomo is not thinking about staying in power, but about gaining it elsewhere (whether he will run, or, like his father, chicken out, is another matter). The governor, who made gay marriage the law of New York, does not need self-styled progressives in the state legislature to push him anywhere He will negotiate with the party leadership in both chambers and he will get exactly what he wants

Starting to think that you just really like Cuomo, to which I say that he will likely stay governor for a while now. But, as I said before, that doesnt change the political situation that has developed.

I sincerely hope that he is only the governor for the next two years

The main political change in NY is that bipartisanship is out - that is the real change. So, now this will be NY Democratic machine politics - and that is not such a big change.

If you mean he resigns his seat for a 1% PV vote in the presidential primary, then I agree with you, but Im pretty sure he just stays put.

And, as I said before, the R senate was a Cuomo creation, so what really happened was that Cuomo lost his barrier. As I said before, the progressives/anti-Cuomos know represent more than his loyalists, so its unlikely he will maintain a large grip over the state.

1. Oh, Andrew Cuomo is far to sensible to resign for a primary My hope, of course, is that he wins Now, this is only a hope - I very much realize it is less likely than not (to begin with, he is his father´s son, and I still remember the old Hamlet-on-the-Hudson routine as if it were yesterday). But he would be a great president.

2.  Cuomo is a good NY politician. He knew full well that IDC was dead in this new partisan age. He sacrificed them deliberately. At this point he needs a good Dem majority in the legislature - that is exactly what he got. He is very much in control and will remain so till, at least, Jan. 20, 2020

Im just going to focus on point 2, since there is nothing to say on point 1.

It has been leaked by staff that the reason that he ditched the IDC was so he could secure his reelection. And it worked. The problem was that the IDC wasnt suppose to lose their primary. Cuomo provided financial, political, and electoral aid to many of these state senators, including Felder. His allies, including one of his closest friends, the leader of the IDC, went down. He know has a majority, sure, but as I keep pointing out, its a progressive one, one that has already shown rebellion, so dont think that they are suddenly going to become foot soldiers or something.

Did he get a D majority, yes, did he get a good one, one loyal to him and the state machine, no.

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Simple, Cuomo is begging him to come back, and the only reason Felder stayed with the GOP was because they promised him a seat in power. He said that if the Ds flip the senate, he switches. Anyway, Felder is one of Cuomo's top allies, so I expect Cuomo to welcome him back, just as he did the IDC(less so the legislature)

[Zaybay]

Simple, Cuomo is begging him to come back, and the only reason Felder stayed with the GOP was because they promised him a seat in power. He said that if the Ds flip the senate, he switches. Anyway, Felder is one of Cuomo's top allies, so I expect Cuomo to welcome him back, just as he did the IDC(less so the legislature)

You seem to operate on the assumption that Cuomo is a bad politician. Of course, he was begging Felder to come back - he wanted a majority, and there isn't one without Felder. Assuming he has a majority without Felder, why would he need him? To ensure the yeshiva vote in 2020?

No, Im talking about that Felder is literally a Cuomo ally, I mean literally. The two are personal friends, and Cuomo helped to fund his campaign, even though he was a traitor Dem. Sure, getting Felder to rejoin the caucus would have been smart politiking, but it didnt happen. In the end, Felder and Cuomo won, Felder gets to have the power he wants, and Cuomo gets his ally back in the caucus in 2019.

Cuomo is not a bad politician, hes actually a really good one, but he is, however, a corrupt one. Both are not mutually exclusive

Did he get a D majority, yes, did he get a good one, one loyal to him and the state machine, no.

Well, as usual, loyal to state and local machines. Some of which will call themselves "progressive".

Which is why the state and local  party actively funded their opponents. Come on, this isnt even logical anymore. The facts are there, the state senate moved Left today by a large margin, and Cuomo lost his loyalists. This isnt some 9th dimensional chess move, the anti-machine Ds now constitute a majority of both chambers.

[Zaybay]

Cuomo helped to fund his campaign,

Source?

His top funders include Peter Rebenwurzel, Jack Kishk, and Joseph J. Sitt, who are Cuomo loyalists and contributes as well.

[Zaybay]

Cuomo helped to fund his campaign,

Source?

His top funders include Peter Rebenwurzel, Jack Kishk, and Joseph J. Sitt, who are Cuomo loyalists and contributes as well.

that isn't the same thing, is it? Are you friends with all of your friends' friends?

No, it is the same thing. They are literally Cuomo's allies, and its already been documented that they follow his orders on who to fund. But you seem to be making as many excuses as possible, so me saying this is rather pointless.

[Zaybay]

Cuomo helped to fund his campaign,

Source?

His top funders include Peter Rebenwurzel, Jack Kishk, and Joseph J. Sitt, who are Cuomo loyalists and contributes as well.

that isn't the same thing, is it? Are you friends with all of your friends' friends?

No, it is the same thing. They are literally Cuomo's allies, and its already been documented that they follow his orders on who to fund. But you seem to be making as many excuses as possible, so me saying this is rather pointless.

Documented where? Mind to provide a source?

My proof is that they are his main contributers, and the fact that they support every candidate he supports, which is not a coincidence. There is also a couple news articles about him meeting with these people, but Im not going to waste my time finding them, since your just going to plug your ears in.

[Zaybay]

Oh ffs, cut it out you two. This is a stupid debate that's going nowhere.

Which debate? I thought this was a friendly discussion of NY politics. Or has this place changed to the point where any disagreement on any matter is prohibited? Is one now only supposed to say things like "thank you very much for a profound and thoughtful argument you have provided"? I am trying to give this place another chance, but, it seems, at this point, anything beyond trivialities an pablum is frowned upon here.

No, hes right, this has gone no where from where we started. There is no point in arguing with someone who fundamentally wont listen.

[Zaybay]

Koh concedes MA-3 D:

MA just got a tinge more conservative in its delegation.