UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Conservatopia]

Something I've been wondering about - what would y'all's ideal Tory party look like?

You mean what ideology would it have if it was modelled after me?  Probably a cross between Law & Justice (PiS) and Civic Democratic Party (ODS).  I'm not an ideologue so whilst my ideal party would definitely be more right wing than it is now I can't say what specific ideology it would follow beyond broader themes like "conservatism" and "unionism" like it does now.

If you mean my ideal party structure etc for the Tories then that's a deeper issue.  I suppose federalisation (hobby horse alert) of the party would be one thing along with a more open selection process for candidates.  I guess something similar to the structure and processes of the Canadian Tories.

For the leadership election I would prefer if it was more similar to the Labour party's process.  That way the membership would have a wider choice of candidates instead of just two to pick from.

[Conservatopia]

Rumour mill.

Boris "jokingly" threatened to demote Rishi to Health Secretary after a bust-up over net zero.  Sunak doesn't want to go full green loony as it will hurt poorer voters most whereas Boris is hell bent on trashing the economy in order to chase the fools' gold of net zero.  Anyway this "joke" didn't go down well and "sources close to the Chancellor" have said that if Boris dares to demote Sunak then Sunak will resign and organise a leadership challenge from the backbenches.  By the way rumour has it that Sunak would be replaced by Truss with Mogg as deputy.  Yeah that seems a stretch.

But wait there's more!  Boris wants to sack Priti Patel too and replace her with Gove (because of the illegal immigration getting out of hand) and her "sources" have made it clear she won't go quietly either.  Both Boris and Priti have lost a lot of popularity in the grassroots recently.

To round up: things might be about to get wild or it could all be a damp squib.  The latter is, of course, more likely.

[Conservatopia]

That would all be great if the Tory grassroot had any real power but sadly you're one of the most powerless party member in the world.

Tell me about it.
I envy the power the Lib Dem membership or even Labour's seem to have.

If the situation looks serious enough that defeat is possible, Conservative leaders always resign. There's a thing about not wanting to be another Ted Heath.

Absolutely.  And it pretty much always ends up all grubby with backstabbing and stitch-ups.

[Conservatopia]

She's not actually Thatcher in the above post.

So what? It's not her marriage to Dennis Thatcher that made her an unlikely Labour voter, but her upbringing and the values and social position of her family.

Yes, agree with this. Its just about possible to see how different circumstances might have made her a Liberal, but *never* Labour.

Her family was traditionally Liberal, perhaps unsurprisingly for Methodist shopkeepers. Though They were Liberals of the Gladstone rather than Lloyd-George variety, and by 1950 her father said that the Conservatives had come to stand for much of what the Liberals used to.

Agreed.  Thatcher was obviously much closer to the ideology of Gladstone than to that of Disraeli, which the Tories then were following.  I could waffle all day about Gladstone and Dizzy but it would become boring quite quickly I fear.

[Conservatopia]

I went to see Geronimo this afternoon.

Revolution of our times.

[Conservatopia]

I humbly submit that I think I know JRM a bit better than most who just know him from TV.  He's absolutely genuine.  Seriously - it's real and not a character.

Make of that what you will.

[Conservatopia]

I don't think Gove would even be considered....he looks like a cartoon character

I think Cassius was impressed with his dancing prowess rather than his looks.

Patel and Badenoch would be historic firsts, something that a white-dominant conservative party needs......

Lol.
We've only got the most diverse cabinet in history with a record number of the holders of the Great Offices having a minority background (arguably all four do).

Listen chum the UK isn't obsessed with skin colour like the Yanks are.

[Conservatopia]

Definitely couldn't afford Eton. They do some scholarships, but not many.

I almost got into Cambridge myself; you don't pay upfront with student loan payments only taken out of salaries above a certain level. There are also various grants etc. that you can get:

https://www.ucas.com/finance/scholarships-grants-and-bursaries

Interesting.....can you get middle class jobs by going to these elite places or are you going to be working in Westminster instead of the middle class commoner life in Essex or Somerford?

No.  Britain has a rigid class system which means that no matter how smart you are or how hard you work you can only get a job that fits with your caste.  This means that somebody who might be Einstein and get into Oxford with a scholarship and so on but happens to have a provincial accent and maybe a dad who drove lorries will only ever be allowed to stack shelves in Tesco or collect litter because they belong to the proletariat.

That's just the way the class system works here.  Another example: my friend dropped out of school at 14 and enjoys eating glue but thanks to his upper-class status he got an executive position at HSBC upon turning 18.

[Conservatopia]

Who are the Manchin/Sinema/Collins/Murkowski of the British House of Commons?

I know there are centrist Labor and centrist Tories who are to the center of their partisan extremes......

This is actually quite a good question.

The answer is that this phenomenon does not really appear in British politics the way it does in the US.  Rebellions are on more of an issue by issue basis.  MPs don't tend to be judged on their personal voting record as much as US congresscritters.

That being said during the chaos of the Brexit bill there were groups on both sides who would frequently rebel.  Most of these MPs lost their seats in 2019.  This was especially the case on the Labour side where a number of Labour MPs backed May and Boris' Brexit deals for a variety of reasons (supported Brexit, hated Corbyn or represented a heavily-Leave area).  Some examples (not all):

Kate Hoey (left Labour, retired)
John Mann (left Labour, retired)
Melanie Onn (defeated 2019)
Caroline Flint (defeated 2019)
Frank Field (left Labour, defeated 2019)
Ronnie Campbell (retired)
About 4 more I think

Some of those MPs are very leftwing like Campbell while others are more centrist like Mann or Flint although the real Labour centrists mostly supported Remain.

There were a couple of these types of rebels on the Tory side (all these are centrist):

Dominic Grieve (left party, defeated 2019)
Anne Milton (same)
Nick Boles (left party, retired)

[Conservatopia]

We should bring back the days of privateers - they could plunder the Spanish Main for us and bring back booty to pay for the NHS.

[Conservatopia]

The squabbling in this thread takes me right back to 2019.

Ah how young and innocent we were back then when we trembled with fear at monsters while marvelling at wizards and unicorns.

[Conservatopia]

Notable that thus far basically each person has been replaced by somebody more rightwing than the original holder of that office.  Possibly to cheer us up after the NICs increase?  Anecdotally it seems to be working so far as the rightwingers that I know are all very happy.

Also notable that lowly Kit Malthouse is about the only Boris ally left now that Williamson, and before him Goldsmith and Leadsom, are gone.  Boris not belonging to a particular wing of the party (although in his heart a one nation Tory) has both strengths and weaknesses and could ultimately be his downfall.

[Conservatopia]

An investigation would find that it was a misjudgement to hand her the detonator, but she couldn't fairly be blamed for having pressed it.

Now, now be fair - I'm sure an independent commissioner would be appointed to do a public consultation as well.

[Conservatopia]

the British commoners

 

[Conservatopia]

Someone needs to explain that Mary Poppins is not actually an accurate portrayal of 21st century England.

And also do something about the way he is making this thread ridiculous

There is a class system in Britain, always have, always will.

I'm not making the thread ridiculous, it is the truth. There are the commoners and the political class and the nobility, hereditary and non-hereditary peers...

Yes and all Americans wear cowboy hats, have enormous bellies, say "Howdy" and "Yeehaw" and carry as many guns as they can.

[Conservatopia]

The Met should be disbanded and started again from scratch.  It's not just this case there's countless other failures like their treatment of the Tory MPs accused by Carl Beech.

[Conservatopia]

Bronz, if you must post here at least talk sense.  No stupid nonsense about "commoners" and "nobles" and the political leaning of athletes or your dumb race obsession.

[Conservatopia]

Tory MP David Amess has just been stabbed at his constituency surgery.

[Conservatopia]

Not to mention all the threats of violence MPs receive.  It's a wonder that it hasn't happened more frankly.  Hopefully this leads to some form of protection being put in place because MPs, particularly outspoken MPs like Duffield et al must be at serious risk from the bilious disgusting people who do these things.

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He was a silly old fool, but the penalty for that should not be death.

He was a good MP with similar political views to my own.  It's a bit beneath you to attack him now.

[Conservatopia]

In any event, I hope MPs consider granting city status to Southend in his honor. His bringing it up at every PMQ's which he was called may have been a long-running joke, but he truly worked tirelessly for it.

This is happening.

It seems like the logical thing to do. And, really, it's no more absurd than Wolverhampton being an official city is it?

Bournemouth when?

[Conservatopia]

Liberal Democrats down 1

Still not enough.  Redraw the maps.

[Conservatopia]

Reeves did rather well I thought and got in a corker of a zinger for what it's worth.

Overall I'm fairly happy with this budget.  An increase in the cost of red wine is unacceptable however.

[Conservatopia]

When the inevitable happens I hope and expect that we get a ceremony and scenes similar to this:

The part with the cranes is rather moving I find.

[Conservatopia]

Whenever the Queen seems frail, I look at Charles and the constitutional and media chaos that will surround the succession. The fights over whether Camilla should be Queen, the gaffe-prone King, the squabbling over coronation costs and invitations. Parliament being summoned to swear fealty, etc. Another round of Diana discourse. It may be a disruptive and divisive period.

God Save The Queen indeed.

I'm no fan of monarchy but I think it will all go fairly smoothly. Within about a month it will be business as usual and headlines will be back to Tory sleaze, Labour infighting and Lib Dem irrelevance like the good old days.