UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Shades of C.S. Lewis arguing for decriminalizing homosexuality on the quintessentially Tory grounds of disliking "interferers and busybodies". Although obviously Pratchett wouldn't have had anything like the same personal and philosophical views on the matter as Lewis.

A case of reaching a remarkably similar destination by a very different route.

In the same period, of course, you had the Suffolk Constabulary cheerfully letting Britten and Pears live openly as a couple, while in London the Met as good as had an undercover officer in every public toilet in the West End.

[afleitch]

Shades of C.S. Lewis arguing for decriminalizing homosexuality on the quintessentially Tory grounds of disliking "interferers and busybodies". Although obviously Pratchett wouldn't have had anything like the same personal and philosophical views on the matter as Lewis.

A case of reaching a remarkably similar destination by a very different route.

In the same period, of course, you had the Suffolk Constabulary cheerfully letting Britten and Pears live openly as a couple, while in London the Met as good as had an undercover officer in every public toilet in the West End.

Though worth bearing in mind this was probably more to do with them being 'the right sort' of person in terms of profile and class than just a benevolence towards their identity/self. I doubt that tolerance extended much down the social ladder!

Though EM Forsters lover Harry Daley was a copper with the Met. Great memoirs about his trysts, the influence of the BUF (which he despised) in the force in the 30's etc. Pre-war police seemed slightly more tolerable than those immediately post-war.

[Blair]

One of the great sub plots of The Swimming Pool Library is the revelation that the met officer who entrapped the friend was in fact actually gay.

I know it would be rather low down their list but have the Met ever actually apologised for it?

[CumbrianLefty]

Pre-war police seemed slightly more tolerable than those immediately post-war.

There was a definite attempt by the authorities to reinforce "traditional" moralities after WW2 ended, given how the war years had upended them in so many ways.

[Conservatopia]

Rumour mill.

Boris "jokingly" threatened to demote Rishi to Health Secretary after a bust-up over net zero.  Sunak doesn't want to go full green loony as it will hurt poorer voters most whereas Boris is hell bent on trashing the economy in order to chase the fools' gold of net zero.  Anyway this "joke" didn't go down well and "sources close to the Chancellor" have said that if Boris dares to demote Sunak then Sunak will resign and organise a leadership challenge from the backbenches.  By the way rumour has it that Sunak would be replaced by Truss with Mogg as deputy.  Yeah that seems a stretch.

But wait there's more!  Boris wants to sack Priti Patel too and replace her with Gove (because of the illegal immigration getting out of hand) and her "sources" have made it clear she won't go quietly either.  Both Boris and Priti have lost a lot of popularity in the grassroots recently.

To round up: things might be about to get wild or it could all be a damp squib.  The latter is, of course, more likely.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Rumour mill.

Boris "jokingly" threatened to demote Rishi to Health Secretary after a bust-up over net zero.  Sunak doesn't want to go full green loony as it will hurt poorer voters most whereas Boris is hell bent on trashing the economy in order to chase the fools' gold of net zero.  Anyway this "joke" didn't go down well and "sources close to the Chancellor" have said that if Boris dares to demote Sunak then Sunak will resign and organise a leadership challenge from the backbenches.  By the way rumour has it that Sunak would be replaced by Truss with Mogg as deputy.  Yeah that seems a stretch.

But wait there's more!  Boris wants to sack Priti Patel too and replace her with Gove (because of the illegal immigration getting out of hand) and her "sources" have made it clear she won't go quietly either.  Both Boris and Priti have lost a lot of popularity in the grassroots recently.

To round up: things might be about to get wild or it could all be a damp squib.  The latter is, of course, more likely.

That would all be great if the Tory grassroot had any real power but sadly you're one of the most powerless party member in the world.

[Continential]

What would happen in a hypothetical leadership spill if Boris wins/Rishi wins/or if Patel wins?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If the situation looks serious enough that defeat is possible, Conservative leaders always resign. There's a thing about not wanting to be another Ted Heath.

[Conservatopia]

That would all be great if the Tory grassroot had any real power but sadly you're one of the most powerless party member in the world.

Tell me about it.
I envy the power the Lib Dem membership or even Labour's seem to have.

If the situation looks serious enough that defeat is possible, Conservative leaders always resign. There's a thing about not wanting to be another Ted Heath.

Absolutely.  And it pretty much always ends up all grubby with backstabbing and stitch-ups.

[jaymichaud]

"The 1983 United Kingdom General Election but somebody stepped on a butterfly"

[Blair]

The rules actually make it harder for a candidate to oust a leader explicitly- as there’s a risk the membership would sour on who wielded the knife.

The big story is how bad Boris is at actually keeping anyone around him for more than two years without pissing all over them- these problems will only get worse when more difficult spending decisions come up. 

[EastAnglianLefty]

"The 1983 United Kingdom General Election but somebody stepped on a butterfly"

Short of being replaced by a Soviet sleeper agent, I'm struggling to see any collection of circumstances where Thatcher could ever end up as a Labour supporter.

[TheTide]

"The 1983 United Kingdom General Election but somebody stepped on a butterfly"

Short of being replaced by a Soviet sleeper agent, I'm struggling to see any collection of circumstances where Thatcher could ever end up as a Labour supporter.

She's not actually Thatcher in the above post.

[Lord Halifax]

She's not actually Thatcher in the above post.

So what? It's not her marriage to Dennis Thatcher that made her an unlikely Labour voter, but her upbringing and the values and social position of her family.

[CumbrianLefty]

She's not actually Thatcher in the above post.

So what? It's not her marriage to Dennis Thatcher that made her an unlikely Labour voter, but her upbringing and the values and social position of her family.

Yes, agree with this. Its just about possible to see how different circumstances might have made her a Liberal, but *never* Labour.

[EastAnglianLefty]

And fundamentally the difference between a Tory and the sort of Liberal Thatcher could conceivably have been are mostly cosmetic anyway.

[LabourJersey]

She's not actually Thatcher in the above post.

So what? It's not her marriage to Dennis Thatcher that made her an unlikely Labour voter, but her upbringing and the values and social position of her family.

Yes, agree with this. Its just about possible to see how different circumstances might have made her a Liberal, but *never* Labour.

Yeah, this isn't like American politics where you could imagine, say, FDR becoming a Republican or Eisenhower a Democrat. Political identities in the UK were more based on social positions/circumstances than the US (back then anyway, though obviously social status was a big thing in the US political sphere in the early 1900s too)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I mean they still are to a significant extent, it's just that social divisions are much blurrier than they were and our society in general is less highly political than it was, so it is much more common to not really have one at all.

[cp]

I mean they still are to a significant extent, it's just that social divisions are much blurrier than they were and our society in general is less highly political than it was, so it is much more common to not really have one at all.

Surely you mean partisan. If anything, the present day accentuates the degree to which people/things/concepts are filtered first and foremost through a political lens, particularly compared to preceding decades of greater parochialism and provincialism.

[Blair]

Pretty hilarious to see the Tory party for once having the mental meltdown.

[CumbrianLefty]

Pretty hilarious to see the Tory party for once having the mental meltdown.

What is this a reference to exactly......

[Blair]

Pretty hilarious to see the Tory party for once having the mental meltdown.

What is this a reference to exactly......

The ‘we must change how A-levels are graded’ story, along with the threat to sack Williamson in 6 months time and replace him with Badenoch . It’s rather under reported how little this Government actually cares about education- or specifically schools policy.

Along with the continued rifts between Boris and Sunak, and the Tory MPs (I refuse to call them red wall as two of those quoted were in seats held by the party in 2010!) ranting on WhatsApp about how they shouldn’t do anything on climate.

The interesting thing is that once COVID (hopefully) becomes less of a political dividing line it’s going to expose this Government really lacks a political agenda to put on leaflets- beyond some very unpopular reforms to the planning system.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Surely you mean partisan. If anything, the present day accentuates the degree to which people/things/concepts are filtered first and foremost through a political lens, particularly compared to preceding decades of greater parochialism and provincialism.

Depends when you're thinking of really. If we're talking, say, twenty years ago or so, then, yes, that would be a better way of framing it. There is a large and loud minority of the population who are highly political in a way that was quite rare then. But if we mean fifty, sixty, seventy years ago and longer, then I would say very clearly not. Politics and even a faith in political ideologies was never the primary concern of all that many people, but it was a feature of the everyday lives of ordinary people in a way that is very much lost now.

[NewYorkExpress]

David Cameron personally promoted Greensill Capital to investors shortly before their collapse.

Former Prime Minister David Cameron personally promoted Greensill Capital to investors before the controversial company collapsed.

BBC Panorama discovered Mr Cameron appeared with the company's founder, Lex Greensill, at an event hosted by the Swiss bank Credit Suisse in 2019.

The collapse of Greensill in March has left the bank's clients facing billions of dollars in losses.

Mr Cameron says there was no wrongdoing in any of the actions he took.

Education secretary Gavin Williamson told BBC Radio Four's Today programme on Tuesday that Mr Cameron had been "absolutely cleared" of any wrongdoing by two independent investigations.

He added he had made himself "available to parliamentary scrutiny", which was "the right thing to do".

Mr Cameron worked for the company as a part-time adviser for two-and-a-half years after stepping down as prime minister.

Panorama has also discovered documents indicating his role earned him about $10m before tax.

[afleitch]

The Terfen horde are now attacking any women's charities that are trans inclusive;

https://mobile.twitter.com/rapecrisisscot/status/1424767097108934662

And they attacked Scotrail for a Pride train. Anything LGBT is now 'why do you hate women'.

The brain worms are burrowing deep. And being turned charities. Who needs the far right when you have semi-retired 'feminists' to attack women's rights!