Mueller report thread - Mueller testimony July 24

[Progressive Pessimist]

I wrote a long, depressed diatribe about this in the "Indictment-o-rama" thread, so if you care what I think go read that there. The Cliffnotes version of it is that I now think that Trump firing Mueller and creating a constitutional crisis for the country would have been a better result and that I was wise to temper my expectations of the report. That still didn't help that much though. I'm feeling really down right now. This may not 100% guarantee Trump's re-election but it undeniably helps him. The guy is practically invincible.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I wrote a long, depressed diatribe about this in the "Indictment-o-rama" thread, so if you care what I think go read that there. The Cliffnotes version of it is that I now think that Trump firing Mueller and creating a constitutional crisis for the country would have been a better result and that I was wise to temper my expectations of the report. That still didn't help that much though. I'm feeling really down right now. This may not 100% guarantee Trump's re-election but it undeniably helps him. The guy is practically invincible.

Since you apparently know what's in the report already, how about sharing it with the rest of us?

The lack of any new indictments plus my already pessimistic expectations are enough to make me think that the report will vindicate Trump.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I wrote a long, depressed diatribe about this in the "Indictment-o-rama" thread, so if you care what I think go read that there. The Cliffnotes version of it is that I now think that Trump firing Mueller and creating a constitutional crisis for the country would have been a better result and that I was wise to temper my expectations of the report. That still didn't help that much though. I'm feeling really down right now. This may not 100% guarantee Trump's re-election but it undeniably helps him. The guy is practically invincible.

Since you apparently know what's in the report already, how about sharing it with the rest of us?

The lack of any new indictments plus my already pessimistic expectations are enough to make me think that the report will vindicate Trump.

There have been multiple reports on how Mueller doesnt think he can indict a sitting president.

I knew that already, but without any other associates being indicted it sounds as if there is no real link between Trump himself and Russian collusion, which is what it would have taken for Trump to be harmed in any way by this investigation. The political harm was always the biggest threat to Trump by this, whether that meant potential removal from office or baggage going into the 2020 election. That doesn't seem to matter now though. Trump's supporters are already celebrating at the lack of new indictments and rubbing it in the faces of the President's opponents. And even if the report has at least some damaging accusations within it, they still won't care. Sure, they were never going to, but that will probably translate to Americans who weren't particularly invested in the investigation either. Trump needs those people on his side if he wants to win re-election and the Trump base are insistent that Democrats overplayed their hand here, it will swing some Independents or soft-Trump support back to him.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Everyone calm down.
Let's wait until we get more details of what is in the report.

*Profusely breathes in brown paper bag*

[Progressive Pessimist]

I wrote a long, depressed diatribe about this in the "Indictment-o-rama" thread, so if you care what I think go read that there. The Cliffnotes version of it is that I now think that Trump firing Mueller and creating a constitutional crisis for the country would have been a better result and that I was wise to temper my expectations of the report. That still didn't help that much though. I'm feeling really down right now. This may not 100% guarantee Trump's re-election but it undeniably helps him. The guy is practically invincible.

Since you apparently know what's in the report already, how about sharing it with the rest of us?

The lack of any new indictments plus my already pessimistic expectations are enough to make me think that the report will vindicate Trump.

We already know more than enough to impeach Trump. He has violated his Oath of Office and the Emoluments Clause. He actively solicited and recieved help from the Russian government to win election. And he, his family, business and campaign, sought a quid pro quo of Trump Tower Moscow for sanctions relief. These aren't things we were waiting on the Mueller report to prove, they're matters of public record. But as Pelosi has acknowledged, the GOP isn't going to do their damned job and impeach Trump while they have any alternative.

What I'm hoping is that the Mueller report will be damning enough to make continuing to enable Trump prohibitively damaging to the GOP. This has never been super-likely, but given what we already know, hoping that Mueller's investigation would produce such info is reasonable. There was never going to be an indictment of Trump from Mueller. Justice Dept procedure was very clear on that, and a by the book guy like Mueller was unlikely to violate precedent like that. I was expecting more indictments of criminals in Trump's circle, but as far as I know, there are still sealed indictments and Muller has demonstrated a pattern of handing off prosecutions not directly related to his directive.

For now, I'll wait and see. But let's be clear - the public evidence of Trump's malfeasance is already damning. There is no vindication, at most, he will not be driven from office. (The cult may claim that as a vindication, but they're deplorable to begin with.)

I'm more worried about undecideds or Trump's soft-support becoming more solidified behind him if the report doesn't detail any wrongdoing. Those are the dumbest, and most dangerous people in this country, as I see it. They're Trump's truest enablers.

I always knew that Trump's base would interpret this in the most self-validating way possible whether that interpretation is "vindication" or "witch hunt-conspiracy." But with the high profile that this investigation has had over the past two years, being equated to Watergate and everything, any sort of positive development for Trump and his cohorts within it may endanger future investigations by the Democratic House committees or even the Southern District of New York investigation. They're going to have to tread carefully now because such a result from the Mueller report may end up backing up Trump's claims of a "partisan witch hunt," even in spite of several Russian conspirators and Trump subordinates getting indicted. Americans' attention spans and capability for rationally seeing the big picture don't bode well for the republic if we don't get any revelations that aren't particularly damaging. All other aspects of Trump's corruption that are already well-known or may become known in the name of transparency or ethics, may just cease to matter. That's why I've been so nervous these past two days.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Here are two ways I am looking at this report:

The measured, calm way: I am not going to make any excuses for the result that has been discovered. Mueller did his job to the best of his ability over the past two years and unfortunately, despite much of the evidence and expectations, it didn't work out the way I wanted it to. There was nothing that could have been done about it and it's better that he did investigate after Trump fired Comey, than if he didn't and we just let that slide. I always had a feeling that proving collusion with a foreign power was going to be difficult. This still doesn't mean that Russia didn't interfere with the election though, there is no denying that they did, especially with several Russian nationals being indicted.

Also some justice was indeed served for some Trump campaign staff-Gates, Manafort, Papdopoulos, etc. Also, Mueller seems to have tried to have his cake and eat it too with this report by leaving it up to the Attorney General to indict for obstruction of Justice or not. That was never going to come to reality though, considering that it's Trump's Justice Department. Furthermore, impeachment/removal from office never would have happened even if the result of the report did support that. So with that said, there is some small room to spin this defensively for Democrats in regards to Barr. They can, and should, definitely demand the full report being made public. But after that, Democrats, and he country as a whole should probably move on and be more cautious with their investigations, even when they're completely warranted.

Finally, I guess we should be glad that this dropped in March of this year rather than being an October surprise in next year's election or something. That definitely would have caused a Trump re-election. It's also fairly ambiguous this early on, if it will still even matter. A year and a half is a long time in politics, and Trump is capable of veering off course and distracting the country with more publicity stunts and scandals that will move the media cycle and national conversation. It's even ambiguous is enough Americans care now. It's hard to think they won't, considering the ubiquity of this investigation over the span of almost two years, but it's possible that it's only the partisans of either direction that care the most about it.

Now for my more honest, less wishful thoughts: I F***ING TOLD YOU SO! This report was exactly what I expected when I heard that there would be no further indictments. This is a travesty when it comes to taking how the mind of the average American thinks! My thoughts in the above paragraphs are not going to matter in the long term as long as Trump gets to set the narrative! He always does manage to do it and will undoubtedly do it again! Republicans may be saying "let's move on from this" but they don't mean it! Trump can remind us constantly about this and how much of a win it is for him and his party.

And as I have said before in earlier posts, it now delegitimizes future investigations. They are all partisan witch hunts now and surely lack the gravity that this one had. Democrats do actually have to move on though, and it kills me to say this because Russian interference and Trump's corruption still exists as problems. But this country is too short-sided and vapid to remember that when Trump keeps being human teflon. I am still adamant that Trump should have attempted to fire Mueller, that would have been a better result. Instead Trump actually does the reasonable thing and benefits from it! I told you, the guy is invulnerable, even though he shouldn't be! The way things should be and the way things are could not be any different. Accept that Trump got to where he did because of ow susceptible the average American is used to seeing things overly simplistically like he does.

This is a f***ing disaster, and it's not even because of the report itself. Like I said, there is some grey area within Barr's statement alone, but it's still not going to stop Republicans from declaring this a 100% win. As long as they can insist that they won, they won because shallow-ass American voters are going to buy into it. I swear, the Southern District of New York better not wrap up its investigation late next year, because that will spell doom for the Democratic candidate when he ends up exonerated in that one too. In spite of the many objectionable things Trump has done, he always finds a way to get away with it, whether it's due to apathy or having such potential crimes hidden well enough or delegating them to his patsies like Cohen. Trump wins again. Th country may not be the ones tired of winning, but I wonder if he is?

The Democrats have to be as masterful as possible if they want to win next year. They need to play it as safe as possible. They need to only focus on Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. To hell with everything else. I think the Senate might even need to be written off at this point. Beating Trump can still be done only because Trump still probably has very little room to grow in this increasingly partisan country, but there is a pattern of Trump always managing to squeeze himself out of situations, and it can, maybe even will, happen again. I don't see a recession happening, and I don't see demographics bailing the Democrat out. It's made even tougher because Americans don't actually care about issues or policy either. But either way, the best chance we had to be rid of him was in 2016, and this country failed that test. We're at a point of no return. Our history is stained forever and whatever redemption that could happen in 2020 still won't undo it.

Actually real quick, let me touch on 2016-that is a perfect example of how Trump and the right manages to get away with things. Clinton got exonerated too, but she suffered for that exoneration and to make it worse, Republicans didn't accept it and still insisted that she committed crimes, only for that to work! Some Democrats may be thinking that we should do these same thing, but the double standard is going to make us seem like the partisan hacks while the Republicans and their warnings of emails were just them being patriotic ethics watchdogs.

What a load of bulls***. I hate this country and I don't know if I can take another four years of this. The country can't either. If he wins again, this country will be even more of a reactionary "paradise" than it already is and the world will be made more vulnerable too. Please, everyone reading this who may even have the slightest inclination to vote Democratic, do so. It's not worth f***ing around. I know that the Democrats may not always be perfect, and I know that this argument often gets mocked, but what is there really to gain from enabling Trump for another four years? You can hate the Democrat all you want when they get into office, but can't we at least let that happen first?

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go do something else to keep my mind off of this. My mental health is in a very tenuous position right now. I wish I could receive a brainwash to gain the mentality of a Republican, it's probably so much less stressful...actually maybe not because then I'd perpetually feel persecuted and angry even when my side is winning. So maybe there is just no peace of mind when it comes to the current politics of our country.

[Progressive Pessimist]

“The Special Counsel states that ‘while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.’”

As important as that sentence is, no one is going to take it into account when Trump and the GOP dig their heels in and insist on 100% pure innocence. American voters don't take nuance very well and Trump has proven to be the first person to say something enough times and make it true, at least in terms of perceptions.

Face it, we're never hearing the end of this, and we deserve that for having expectations about the investigation that weren't grounded in reality as much as we may have thought.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Scott Pelley just begin 60 Minutes by saying, "The Mueller Report findings completely exonerate President Donald Trump".

Today is a Reaganfan sort of day.

That person is an irresponsible hack that should be fired for saying such a thing.

That's the narrative though. It's set. Even if it isn't exactly true. It's similar with how the FBI investigating emails on Huma Abedin's computer automatically meant that Hillary Clinton was guilty after all, even as that wasn't necessarily true. That was how people perceived it though. This country has an endemic double standard that is destroying us from the inside and may help Trump win again in 2020.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I accept Mueller's ultimate conclusion, which we now have available.  But the full report should be released.

Also, the president most certainly did attempt to obstruct justice.  Barr's personal conclusions are irrelevant and unimportant.  I want to see Mueller's full, uncensored report.

In any case, it seems like (again, without having the full report--which is a necessity) there was no collusion, and I accept that.  Provided the full report is released and confirms that, I think Trump just won reelection.

That totally ignores the fact that he has has countless other problems that come in way ahead of collusion (which many people believe did happen). He spent last week attacking a dead person, he shutdown the government and didn't even get what he wanted and the list goes on. He needs more collusion to get re-elected and collusion that involves tampering with actual votes.

Nobody cares about any of that anymore, all of that will be forgotten by American voters. Meanwhile, Trump can shape the narrative on this and bring it up whenever he wants to humiliate Democrats and delegitimize any other investigations or ethical concerns that they have. I'm still not convinced 100% that it has cemented his re-election, if this had dropped in October of next year it would have, but it unequivocally is a benefit to him. 

[Progressive Pessimist]

I accept Mueller's ultimate conclusion, which we now have available.  But the full report should be released.

Also, the president most certainly did attempt to obstruct justice.  Barr's personal conclusions are irrelevant and unimportant.  I want to see Mueller's full, uncensored report.

In any case, it seems like (again, without having the full report--which is a necessity) there was no collusion, and I accept that.  Provided the full report is released and confirms that, I think Trump just won reelection.

That totally ignores the fact that he has has countless other problems that come in way ahead of collusion (which many people believe did happen). He spent last week attacking a dead person, he shutdown the government and didn't even get what he wanted and the list goes on. He needs more collusion to get re-elected and collusion that involves tampering with actual votes.

Nobody cares about any of that anymore, all of that will be forgotten by American voters. Meanwhile, Trump can shape the narrative on this and bring it up whenever he wants to humiliate Democrats and delegitimize any other investigations or ethical concerns that they have. I'm still not convinced 100% that it has cemented his re-election, if this had dropped in October of next year it would have, but it unequivocally is a benefit to him. 

All of that is already baked into public perception. With that said he does something outrageous every week and there is no reason to think he will change in time to be re-elected. If anything this report will prompt him to do worse things.

That's really the only hope we have is for Trump's typical behavior to move the media narrative beyond this. It's bound to happen eventually but the sooner, the better.

Actually this would be a good time for the Democrats to take a page out of Trump's distraction book and convince Biden to announce his candidacy or something. He's really the only major candidate left and him announcing would attract quite a bit of media attention. Maybe not enough to completely push this development out of the cycle, but it would at least diminish it.

[Progressive Pessimist]

McConnell blocks resolution calling for Mueller report to be released publicly

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) on Monday blocked a resolution calling for special counsel Robert Mueller's report to be released publicly.

Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) asked for unanimous consent for the nonbinding resolution, which cleared the House 420-0, to be passed by the Senate following Mueller's submission of his final report on Friday.

Remember back when the GOP obsessed over surveillance and collecting private information (some of which could be sold publicly) while claiming "only those who are guilty have something to hide?" There is no reason at all for them to withhold a public release unless there's something damning in it.

Agreed. This actually might thankfully give Democrats an opening in reversing the optics of this dilemma.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I'm so glad that I put Hollywood on ignore.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Cough
https://mobile.twitter.com/mkraju/status/1110996095369445376

Americans' stupidity actually helps Democrats for once! Maybe they have more to gain from being stubborn than previously thought. It's worked for the GOP all this time after all.

[Progressive Pessimist]

http://twitter.com/ABC/status/1111713641961803777

Cool.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1109918388133023744
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1113047970251931648

The guy who plays the President on the Republican Dystopia reality show seems very unhappy that people might see the report that clears his name.

Hmm, that's quite the change of tune.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1109918388133023744
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1113047970251931648

The guy who plays the President on the Republican Dystopia reality show seems very unhappy that people might see the report that clears his name.

It blows my mind that Trumpists don't understand that if he was innocent, he would want the report open to the public ASAP. Only a guilty person would be acting like this. YOUNG children can figure this kind of thing out.

I guess a certain percentage of his base know but don't care. Their orange fuhrer is above the law in their eyes and they cannot WAIT for martial law. I'm not saying martial law will actually happen.

Remember when Trump said that pleading the fifth indicated automatic guilt? Yeah, neither does he.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I've said this before but our version of "collusion delusion," as a counter to it, is exoneration exaggeration.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Republicans don't care about transparency, only about shaping narratives. Barr epitomizes this.

[Progressive Pessimist]

All this news is making me feel even more foolish about my initial freak-out after the Barr summary. I apologize yet again. Clearly, the only thing I should have taken seriously from the letter was that Barr is a f***ing hack! Why do so many insist on dying on these hills for Donald mother-f***ing Trump? What was to gain from editorializing the report like that? The narrative clearly wasn't going to last. That goes double for Richard Burr.

This report may still not be everything that we Trump opponents wanted, but for Trump and his associates to still continue spinning it as an outright victory for him just because it barely implicated him in a crime, is laughably absurd. Granted, I still don't think this all matters that much in the long-run, even though it should. Trump will not be impeached, and was never going to be even if he was implicated in both counts of the investigation, and the public (that isn't us) will continue not caring as his approval ratings remain stagnant. That said, there is still quite a bit to bludgeon him with from this report, and that's about the best that we can get from it. We won't be able to get rid of Trump until next year, but  the report, and maybe even Mueller's testimony to Congress, if he does so; can be of some assistance with that goal. Hopefully with that, I'm wrong and people will wake up to how abnormal and abominable Trump's actions were during this investigation and be one of the many reasons why he should not be re-elected. His paranoia was ultimately his biggest self-inflicted wound, and he should suffer for prioritizing his insecurity over the rule of law.

All in all, it's good to have the truth out in the open now. Even if it is a messy, redacted truth.

[Progressive Pessimist]

So, if I am following this correctly, the Republican spin for the report consists of the following:

1. No politicians are moral, therefore expecting morality out of Trump is hypocritical.

2. Trump wasn't indicted of a crime therefore his conduct resembling conspiracy to commit a crime is perfectly fine and totally exonerates him.

3. Mueller is the real criminal because he chose to describe Trump negatively in his findings even though he isn't indicting Trump of anything, therefore robbing Trump of being innocent until being proven guilty.

4. The Democrats talked about the report for two years and since there is some nuance to it, they are completely wrong and Trump needs to exact revenge on them.

5. Robert Mueller, a lifelong Republican, hired Peter Strzok at one point; so his entire staff consisted of Democrats pursuing a witch hunt based on a petty, personal vendetta against our President. That includes Mueller himself too because he once golfed at one of Trump's country clubs.

Feel free to add to the list if you hear any new kinds of this perfectly logical rhetoric by our country's "law and order" party.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Barr is not going anywhere. He has proven his loyalty to Trump, which is tantamount to doing your job well in today's DC.

This is the unfortunate truth. Trump didn't get this out of Sessions, and now that he has "his" Attorney General, he won't be letting him go anytime soon.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Again, I'll emphasize, if Trump has been "fully and completely exonerated" why is he so skittish about Mueller testifying?

EDIT: GeorgiaModerate already made this exact point. My bad.

[Progressive Pessimist]

If Trump really did something illegal, the best chance for him to be indicted is if what he did is also illegal under the laws of New York. Then he could be indicted by AG Letitia James. The thing with that is, since it'd be a state charge, he wouldn't be able to pardon himself.

I'm almost confident this is gonna happen the day he's no longer President.

I keep having this image in my mind of Trump seated behind his successor as they are giving their inauguration speech, when two special agents come down the Capitol steps and say to him "Sir, would you come with us please?"

I would cry tears of joy if that happened.

My fantasy involves Trump and all of his associates and family back at the Trump Tower boardroom after losing the election, to which FBI agents kick down the door and start arresting them all in slow motion, like that scene from 'Wolf of Wall Street.' Then cut to a mugshot montage!

[Progressive Pessimist]

If Trump really did something illegal, the best chance for him to be indicted is if what he did is also illegal under the laws of New York. Then he could be indicted by AG Letitia James. The thing with that is, since it'd be a state charge, he wouldn't be able to pardon himself.

I'm almost confident this is gonna happen the day he's no longer President.

I keep having this image in my mind of Trump seated behind his successor as they are giving their inauguration speech, when two special agents come down the Capitol steps and say to him "Sir, would you come with us please?"

I would cry tears of joy if that happened.

My fantasy involves Trump and all of his associates and family back at the Trump Tower boardroom after losing the election, to which FBI agents kick down the door and start arresting them all in slow motion, like that scene from 'Wolf of Wall Street.' Then cut to a mugshot montage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Uy0Uznw4E

It's Mueller time!

Yeah, something like that. *Sigh* if only...

[Progressive Pessimist]

Checks and balances feels like such a foreign concept now. The Constitution's Framers f***ed up so bad. The American experiment was worth a try, but it is clearly a failure.