MN-05: Not a topic about Israel, thank you very much

[America Needs R'hllor]

So Omar is apparently an anti-Semite

https://mobile.twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/269488770066313216

Oh god this is disgusting and scary. It sounds like something a terrorist leader would say, not a serious American politician. She must immediately apologize and rescind these murderous comments. In any case, add her to the list of candidates I'd support Trump over.

[America Needs R'hllor]

So Omar is apparently an anti-Semite

https://mobile.twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/269488770066313216

That's not anti-Semitic.

You mean like how it wouldn’t be homophobic if someone said “The gays have hypnotized America.  May God awaken the people and let them see what homosexuals want to do to our children”

Let’s be honest, Atlas would be up in arms if this was said about anyone other than Jews (Israel has long been the anti-Semitic left’s code/dog whistle for “teh evulz JEWS”).  Anti-Israel doesn’t always mean anti-Semitic, but for obvious reasons, the two can often overlap.

Directly attacking marginalized groups like proposed in your strawman argument would be homophobic, just as if Omar calling all Jewish people evil would be anti-Semitic. However, Omar clearly isn't doing that and if you think she is you're obviously reaching.

I mean, have you ever heard of the term 'dog-whistle'? Because if I've ever seen one, it's right there in this tweet, especially with the world "hypnotized". And calling your god to awaken a people so that they see the "evildoing" (and presumably slaughter the evildoers) brings images of the crusades or of jihad. And btw, this tweet doesn't even make sense- the people of Gaza elected a terrorist organization that promises to slaughter all the Jews in Israel, they don't need any "awakening". Well, they do- they need to wake up to the fact that Hamas is responsible of their terrible humanitarian situation.

[America Needs R'hllor]

I'm not going to respond to all of the far-leftists defending a blatant antisemite. It doesn't surprise me anymore. The far-left and far-right are made for each other.

Not surpised, either, that Ellison is possibly going to be replaced by someone even worse. Dayton should be ashamed of himself for endorsing this trash

This. Leftists wouldn't be defending it if a Christian called for a crusade against Muslims.

[America Needs R'hllor]

MoveOn and Democracy for America endorsed Ilhan Omar. Most of the non-Omar support seems to be coalescing around State Senator Patricia Torres Ray, rather than Margaret Anderson Kelliher, who doesn’t really seem to be running a visible campaign.

Noted: American progressive organizations are becoming increasingly antisemitic.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Omar's comments about "Israel brainwashing the world" are not any sort of substantive policy criticism and instead reflect 19th century libels about Jews as a shadowy illuminati.

I agree that refusing to seat her is a nuclear option, but what should happen is that both houses of Congress should issue a bipartisan statement condemning the campaigns of Omar, Cockburn, Nehlen, and Jones as wholly unfit to serve in Congress.

This. No one is "triggered by a hijab"- we're triggered by blood libel and hateful comments that, decades ago, were amongst the biggest causes for murders and persecution of our people in pogroms.

[America Needs R'hllor]

The use of word "hypnotized" was unfortunate and inappropriate, but her follow up explanation helped clear things up to me and are more in line with my views. Also happy to see she voted for the anti-FGM bill.

She doubled down in the follow up

Yes but she used the word "appartheid" rather than "hypntized" so her antisemitism is fine now.
Seriously, people like Omar and the ones defending her here are the reason we need a country, and the reason will need nukes. We'll never be at the mercy of antisemites and their apologizers again.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Shish, (changed it for pun lol), for a bunch of justice dems y'all are quite neoconny. Omar is a bright and articulate individual who made great statements on twitter, and my only criticism was that she did not go far enough.

Confronting antisemitism is now neoconny? I'm unable to discern how many levels of woke you're on right now.

Nah fam, not that as much as the iron clad support for Israel even among many justice dems on this forum.

As you might've noticed if you had some reading comprehension, almost everyone on this thread has criticism for Israel. It's just that some of them also know to discern valid criticism from rabid, 19th-century antisemitism. Something you clearly can't do.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Love the defense of Omar's antisemitism by the same red avatars who came to the defense of Wallace, Cockburn, Ellison, Waters, and Davis, "she's not an antisemite, she just believes that Israel is the great satan and that a secret jewish power controls the world"

She's just calling for a crusade against the Jewish state, nothing to see here. Just a progressive FF

[America Needs R'hllor]

Love the defense of Omar's antisemitism by the same red avatars who came to the defense of Wallace, Cockburn, Ellison, Waters, and Davis, "she's not an antisemite, she just believes that Israel is the great satan and that a secret jewish power controls the world"

She's just calling for a crusade against the Jewish state, nothing to see here. Just a progressive FF

There is, of course, no room for Muslims in a Jewish state. Just some mild ethnic cleansing, nothing to see here.

Of course, Muslim parliament members and Arabic Supreme Court Judges are indicative of a racist, ethnic-cleansing country...
If you respond to an antisemitic statement by a political candidate you support by deflecting with lies, I think you should do a little bit of reflection with yourself.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Love the defense of Omar's antisemitism by the same red avatars who came to the defense of Wallace, Cockburn, Ellison, Waters, and Davis, "she's not an antisemite, she just believes that Israel is the great satan and that a secret jewish power controls the world"

She's just calling for a crusade against the Jewish state, nothing to see here. Just a progressive FF

There is, of course, no room for Muslims in a Jewish state. Just some mild ethnic cleansing, nothing to see here.

Of course, Muslim parliament members and Arabic Supreme Court Judges are indicative of a racist, ethnic-cleansing country...
If you respond to an antisemitic statement by a political candidate you support by deflecting with lies, I think you should do a little bit of reflection with yourself.

Yes, just like the fact that there are African-American congresspeople and judges means that there's no racism in America. Most people would do a little soul-searching after their country murdered unarmed protestors en masse (not to mention sniping a medic or two), but clearly that's beneath you.

Of course there's racism in Israel, and in any other country. Do you mean America is an racist, ethnic-cleansing state? You gotta have a better argument than that
Also, unlike the Western coalition which doesn't really investigate the countless deaths their strikes caused, Israel IS investigating deaths. But when thousands of hostile people attack the border, many of them armed, there will obviously be deaths. We won't give up on our right to exist.
So yeah, still no valid excuse for Omar. Yawn.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Meh, it’s surprisingly not an unpopular opinion to hold among the activist left, that extremists need rehabilitation rather than the death sentence/life in prison.

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Those people weren't poor victims of unfair drug laws or victimized immigrants struggling to make an honest living in a hostile environment so their children can have better lives.  They're terrorists belonging to a vile organization with no place in any civilized society.  The way Omar is coddling them and implying they shouldn't receive tough prison sentences for their crimes in ridiculous, offensive, and makes a mockery of the desperate situations of people who actually deserve to be treated with leniency.  It's also an insult to the Somali community to imply - as Omar did - that giving ISIS recruits to appropriately long prison sentences is an attack on Somali values.

Yeah this is disgusting. Omar is the single worst serious candidate this year. I'd vote for almost anyone over her.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Meh, it’s surprisingly not an unpopular opinion to hold among the activist left, that extremists need rehabilitation rather than the death sentence/life in prison.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Those people weren't poor victims of unfair drug laws or victimized immigrants struggling to make an honest living in a hostile environment so their children can have better lives.  They're terrorists belonging to a vile organization with no place in any civilized society.  The way Omar is coddling them and implying they shouldn't receive tough prison sentences for their crimes in ridiculous, offensive, and makes a mockery of the desperate situations of people who actually deserve to be treated with leniency.  It's also an insult to the Somali community to imply - as Omar did - that giving ISIS recruits to appropriately long prison sentences is an attack on Somali values.

Yeah this is disgusting. Omar is the single worst serious candidate this year. I'd vote for almost anyone over her.

Arthur Jones. Paul Nehlen. Archie Parnell.

Omar is probably going to win, those 3 don’t have a shot in hell.

Yep, that's why I said "serious candidate".

[America Needs R'hllor]

In a year of fantastic campaign ads, Ilhan may have the best.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1024476402761048064

"In a year of fantastic campaign ads, Duke may have the best."

[America Needs R'hllor]

In a year of fantastic campaign ads, Ilhan may have the best.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1024476402761048064

"In a year of fantastic campaign ads, Duke may have the best."

This post...oof.

Sorry for being annoyed that so many Democrats (including the Governor of Minnesota) don't care about blatant and vicious antisemitism. It's not like apathy about anti-Semitism could ever be harmful to my people, right?

[America Needs R'hllor]

In a year of fantastic campaign ads, Ilhan may have the best.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1024476402761048064

"In a year of fantastic campaign ads, Duke may have the best."

This post...oof.

Sorry for being annoyed that so many Democrats (including the Governor of Minnesota) don't care about blatant and vicious antisemitism. It's not like apathy about anti-Semitism could ever be harmful to my people, right?

"Ilhan Omar tweeted about Palestine, she's LITERALLY THE NEXT HITLER"

She didn't tweet about Palestine, she tweeted about how "Israel hypnotized the world". This is the most obvious dogwhistle ever. I refer you to the earlier pages lf this thread to read the arguments people provided about the viciousness of this tweet.

The fact that she didn't apologize proves to me that she's an antisemite, and that makes her completely illegitimate. Sad that Governor Dayton and many progressives don't care about Jews.

[America Needs R'hllor]

In a year of fantastic campaign ads, Ilhan may have the best.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1024476402761048064

"In a year of fantastic campaign ads, Duke may have the best."

This post...oof.

Sorry for being annoyed that so many Democrats (including the Governor of Minnesota) don't care about blatant and vicious antisemitism. It's not like apathy about anti-Semitism could ever be harmful to my people, right?

"Ilhan Omar tweeted about Palestine, she's LITERALLY THE NEXT HITLER"

She didn't tweet about Palestine, she tweeted about how "Israel hypnotized the world". This is the most obvious dogwhistle ever. I refer you to the earlier pages lf this thread to read the arguments people provided about the viciousness of this tweet.

The fact that she didn't apologize proves to me that she's an antisemite, and that makes her completely illegitimate. Sad that Governor Dayton and many progressives don't care about Jews.

Sad that Netanyahu doesn't care about Muslims, either.

Woah that showed me. I strongly oppose Netanyahu but whatever

Hey dude, Netanyahu is creating an apartheid state at the expense of Palestinians in Israel. That's a fact.

Btw- no it's not lmao. But I'm not going to argue about it with far-leftists that read some article. I've got better things to do like cry about the exam I'm going to fail tomorrow.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Antisemitism is very common among far-left parties all over the world.

Yep. While usually I strongly dislike the "both sides philosophy", on this issue it's quite true- political extremists, both right and left, often search for boogeymen to blame for problems and enthuse the base. Jews, unfortunately, make great boogeymen.

[America Needs R'hllor]

I think what is being referred to by many as anti-semitism is actually anti-zionism, which are not one in the same. One is a hatred/discrimination against the Jewish people, while anti-zionism is the opposition to political and ethonational movement to create the Jewish state.

They are not the same.

There has been, what, 4 Democrats accused of being anti-Semites? Cockburn, Omar, Wallace, Tlaib. Thats who I can think of off the top of my head. And most of the evidence used against these has shown that they are Israeli critics and anti-Zionist, but not anti-Semites. Especially when Jewish Organisations have endorsed many of these candidates.

Siiigh. There's no need to tell me the differences, I'm well-aware. I'll put it simply for the last time, because at this point progressives seem as stubborn about ignoring Omar's words as conservatives are about Trump:

She said that Israel hypnotized the world, a crystal-clear dogwhistle using old stereotypes against the Jewish people. She said that she's praying to Allah for the people of Gaza to defeat which, considering the goals of Hamas, means genocide of the Jewish people. I couldn't overstate how antisemitic that tweet was, and the fact that she did not apologize for it means that she still endorses these views. She's antisemitic.

Tlaib is not antisemitic, and I've barely seen anyone accusing her of being one, because Jews aren't stupid. She might be anti-zionist (though I haven't seen any proof even for that), but she isn't antisemitic.

We know the differences. We can distinguish between an antisemitic candidate and one who isn't. Can you?

[America Needs R'hllor]

I think what is being referred to by many as anti-semitism is actually anti-zionism, which are not one in the same. One is a hatred/discrimination against the Jewish people, while anti-zionism is the opposition to political and ethonational movement to create the Jewish state.

They are not the same.

There has been, what, 4 Democrats accused of being anti-Semites? Cockburn, Omar, Wallace, Tlaib. Thats who I can think of off the top of my head. And most of the evidence used against these has shown that they are Israeli critics and anti-Zionist, but not anti-Semites. Especially when Jewish Organisations have endorsed many of these candidates.

Siiigh. There's no need to tell me the differences, I'm well-aware. I'll put it simply, because at this point progressives seem as stubborn about ignoring Omar's words as conservatives are about Trump:

She said that Israel hypnotized the world, a crystal-clear dogwhistle using old stereotypes against the Jewish people. She said that she's praying to Allah for the people of Gaza to defeat which, considering the goals of Hamas, means genocide of the Jewish people. I couldn't overstate how antisemitic that tweet was, and the fact that she did not apologize for it means that she still endorses these views. She's antisemitic.

Tlaib is not antisemitic, and I've barely seen anyone accusing her of being one, because Jews aren't stupid. She might be anti-zionist (though I haven't seen any proof even for that), but she isn't antisemitic.

We know the differences. We can distinguish between an antisemitic candidate and one who isn't. Can you?

I was not referring to Omar specifically, but to the 4 candidates in general who have been accused.

And, I will not defend anything that she said, as it was poorly written, and rather offensive. But, I must ask, isnt conflating her tweet supporting Gaza and thinking it means a support of the genocide of the Jewish People a bit of a leap in logic?

Also, found the tweet that started this debate, so we can refer to it directly.
https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/269488770066313216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwca...

I cant find the one about Gaza, so it would be helpful if you could find that tweet.

Sorry, it wasn't directly about Gaza (though the hashtag was so I'm pretty sure she was referring to it), but praying to Allah that he will "awaken the people" makes me, personally, quite scared of what these "awakened people" will do to evil me. Calling your enemy evil, btw, is one of the steps towards genocide, so there's that too. I exaggerated with the genocide part because I remembered the tweet differently, but this tweet is still very much antisemitic, and I'd expect Democrats to recognize and condemn antisemitic dogwhistles (especially ones as clear as this one), just like they do with anti-black or anti-Muslim dogwhistles.

As for the other candidates- as I said, Tlaib isn't an antisemite, not close. From what I've read, she's good. And I'm not sure about Cockburn, though her book smelled very bad and had some dogwhistles. But in any case, your entire point was that we can't distinguish between anti-zionism and anti-semitism- my point was, that I clearly can considering all that. Democrats will now have to choose whether to support an unapologetic anti-semite or not.

[America Needs R'hllor]

well, first of all, shes not unapologetic. She has tweeted many times before and after about her support for the Jewish community, and is endorsed by many synagogues, and it doesnt seem that she has any other tweet that conflates an anti-Semite image.

Second of all, her entire tweet depends on what you see from her wording, because it can be interpreted many ways. "Awaken" can mean exactly what you said, but it can also be to "wake up" and see whats happening in Israel and be more knowledgeable about it and demand change, considering many Americans dont know about whats going on in the region. The problem with the tweet is really the language, as it is so vague and contains many odd phrases that it can reinterpreted any way.

The hypnosis line is rather poor, but, from the research I was able to do on Jewish stereotypes, hypnosis, or mesmerization is not one of them. I might be wrong, but thats what I found. If she had said "Israel has robbed the world...." or something similar, that would immediately be recognized as racism, but Im sitting here for 1/2 an hour looking for hypnosis and the Jewish People, and have found no connection. She could have easily meant "Everyone really likes Israel even if they do terrible things", but, again, her wording is so awful and the phrases so vague that its up to interpretation.

Again, I could be on the wrong track here, but thats just how I see it.

Well, I guess one needs to be trained in the intricacies of Jewish stereotypes to recognize the dogwhistle here

Outright hypnosis is obviously not one of them. No one (other than maybe Alex Jones or something) believes Jews have the magical ability to hypnotize people, and it's definitely not what Omar meant (if it is, then she has other problems, lol). But what IS a Jewish stereotype, is that the Jews are evil deceivers who manage to lie their way to convince people to do things for them. This is what she implied about Israel, and this is the antisemitic core in her tweet.

As for the rest- I guess EVERYTHING is about wording. But when someone uses vicious and agressive language, interwined with antisemitic dogwhistles, and doesn't apologize for it, then I'm not going to give her the benefit of the doubt. Also:

Neither Tlaib, nor Wallace are anti-semitic, not even close. But the other two candidates clearly are.

Omar is a clear anti-semite, while Tlaib and Wallace are clearly not. But I am unsure about Cockburn.

Colour me pleasantly surprised.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Thats fair, didnt think about that.

I still would rather not judge a person based on one tweet that uses vague language. Nothing else about her says her being an anti-semite, except for her tweet, which was, again, poorly written and had vague language.

And as for her non-apoligy, she make it rather clear that she isnt apologizing because she doesnt see it as attacking Jews:

https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1002295140172664832?lang=en

Again, I could be completely wrong, and could be defending a rapid anti-Semite, but I just dont see that much proof in favor of it, unlike Trump's hatred of Mexicans, which is rather clear and obvious, and MN's Lewis, which refers to AAs directly and uses the hateful stereotype of being "stuck on entitlements".

That tweet just makes it worse, considering Israel isn't an appartheid state by every definition, and trying to legitimize the Jewish state with lies is just another indicator of antisemitism. So she doens't just ignore her antisemitic tweet, she reinforces it by attacking those who call her to apologize. And if nothing else, this pathetic tweet just reflects badly on her character. It looks like one of Trump's tweets in response to critics.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Thats fair, didnt think about that.

I still would rather not judge a person based on one tweet that uses vague language. Nothing else about her says her being an anti-semite, except for her tweet, which was, again, poorly written and had vague language.

And as for her non-apoligy, she make it rather clear that she isnt apologizing because she doesnt see it as attacking Jews:

https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1002295140172664832?lang=en

Again, I could be completely wrong, and could be defending a rapid anti-Semite, but I just dont see that much proof in favor of it, unlike Trump's hatred of Mexicans, which is rather clear and obvious, and MN's Lewis, which refers to AAs directly and uses the hateful stereotype of being "stuck on entitlements".

That tweet just makes it worse, considering Israel isn't an appartheid state by every definition, and trying to legitimize the Jewish state with lies is just another indicator of antisemitism. So she doens't just ignore her antisemitic tweet, she reinforces it by attacking those who call her to apologize.

the Apartheid state is actually an anti-Zionist term, not an anti-Semite term. And thats the key I was trying to establish. From her other tweets and her history of being a legislator, it seems that she is a rabbid anti-Zionist, not an anti-Semite, which can be easily conflated.

Many Jewish leaders have called the state of Israel the same thing, and even the UN agrees with this assessment. So this is not antisemitism, its anti-Zionism.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/16/is-israel-an-apartheid-state-this-u-n-report-says-yes/?utm_term=.89c52a7a897c

I'm... I'm not saying that lying about Israel is antisemitic by itself. All I said was that it reinforced the previous tweet, and did the opposite of soothing fears about it.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Thats fair, didnt think about that.

I still would rather not judge a person based on one tweet that uses vague language. Nothing else about her says her being an anti-semite, except for her tweet, which was, again, poorly written and had vague language.

And as for her non-apoligy, she make it rather clear that she isnt apologizing because she doesnt see it as attacking Jews:

https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1002295140172664832?lang=en

Again, I could be completely wrong, and could be defending a rapid anti-Semite, but I just dont see that much proof in favor of it, unlike Trump's hatred of Mexicans, which is rather clear and obvious, and MN's Lewis, which refers to AAs directly and uses the hateful stereotype of being "stuck on entitlements".

That tweet just makes it worse, considering Israel isn't an appartheid state by every definition, and trying to legitimize the Jewish state with lies is just another indicator of antisemitism. So she doens't just ignore her antisemitic tweet, she reinforces it by attacking those who call her to apologize. And if nothing else, this pathetic tweet just reflects badly on her character. It looks like one of Trump's tweets in response to critics.

They're gonna pass a bill that would legalize segregation between Arabs and Israelis! The ruling party is a collection of deeply racist ultranationalists. IT IS AN APARTHEID STATE, it is today's South Africa. What about the Gaza killings back in May at the hands of the IDF? Or the MP who said Netanyahu's policy on African refugees being that they're poisoning Israeli culture? Or the settlers in the West Bank that have made life hell for Palestinians that have lived there for generations?

And why is it that Muslim candidates are always given intense scrutiny over their views on Israel? I know Keith Ellison was very recently disgraced, but I remember the smears against his DNC chair campaign about how he was an antisemite because he hung around the Nation of Islam back in the 1990s. This whole "Omar is an antisemite!" reads like more Atlas poster anxiety about Muslims running for office, just like how El-Sayed was just too damn Muslim for Michigan.

....Lol. I live here, you don't need to tell me what laws we're passing, especially considering the fact that you're wrong. I honestly shouldn't bother becasue it both derails the thread and will fall on deaf ears, so this will be my last comment on the matter:

1. The section of the law that was supposed to allow local communities (both Jewish and Arab) to segragate is gone. It wasn't passed and won't pass.
2. You can shout as much as you want, but the cold, hard facts are that Israel is nothing like SA. There was an Arab Supreme Court Justice, the Arabic party is the third-biggest in the parliament, there's a Druze minister.
3. The Gaza killings? What does that have to do with appartheid? If you must know, the IDF was defending Israeli territory and citizens from literally hordes of hostile attackers. Sure, they were just brainwashed Palestinians sent by Hamas, but what were we supposed to do? Let them breach the border?
4. MK Oren Hazan is an a**hole and I have no sympathy for him. Rep. Steve King is an a**hole and I have no sympathy for him. Neither Israel nor the U.S. are appartheid states.
5. The settlers make life hell for Palestinians, the Palestinians make life hell for the settlers. The military occupation is a sad reality and it's time BOTH governments become ready for compromise and peace.

As for the "anxiety" about Muslim candidates- no. The Nation of Islam is antisemitic, so obviously Ellison hanging out with them was bad, but he made it clear that he's not an antisemite. Neither are El Sayyed or Tlaib. Omar is.

But it shows anti-Zionism, and not antisemitism, and thats what I've been trying to say. That the two are not the same, but can be easily conflated as both. I feel that Omar treated the situation poorly, yes, but shes not anti-Semetic, shes anti-Zionist, which is more common on the left.

Also, your backtrack at the beginning of the sentence is kind of telling. Being anti-Zionist isn't Antisemitic.

My "backtrack" was a rhetorical tool to show that I'm frustrated by you not really reading my posts As I said, this will be my last comment on the matter- this is feeling exactly like arguing with alt-right conservatives about racist dogwhistles.

[America Needs R'hllor]

3. The Gaza killings? What does that have to do with appartheid? If you must know, the IDF was defending Israeli territory and citizens from literally hordes of hostile attackers. Sure, they were just brainwashed Palestinians sent by Hamas, but what were we supposed to do? Let them breach the border?

This statement alone contains far more racist connotations than anything Omar has ever said about Israel.

Omar is not an antisemite.

Lol ok, if you say so. Make sure to tell that to all the Arabs you're peacefully coexisting with

[America Needs R'hllor]

2. You can shout as much as you want, but the cold, hard facts are that Israel is nothing like SA. There was an Arab Supreme Court Justice, the Arabic party is the third-biggest in the parliament, there's a Druze minister.

America is not racist because Clarence Thomas

America is, indeed, not an appartheid state. Is there racism in America? Sure. Is there racism in Israel? Sure. Do we have a lot of work to do to improve the situation of minorities in both? Of course. This doesn't make this old claim any less a lie, usually meant to delegitimize the Jewish State.