Israel-Gaza war

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

UN expert finds reasonable claims to genocide acts in Gaza, according to Al Jazarra.

The UN special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territories, Francesca Albanese, writes in her report to the UN Security Council – which was released at the same time as the Gaza resolution vote – that “Israel’s genocide on the Palestinians in Gaza is an escalatory stage of a long-standing settler colonial process of erasure”.

“For over seven decades this process has suffocated the Palestinian people as a group – demographically, culturally, economically and politically – seeking to displace it and expropriate and control its land and resources. The ongoing Nakba must be stopped and remedied once and for all.”

The UN report finds that “there are reasonable grounds to believe” that the threshold for several genocidal acts against Palestinians is met: killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm and deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction.

“Israel has de facto treated an entire protected group and its life-sustaining infrastructure as ‘terrorist’ or ‘terrorist-supporting’, thus transforming everything and everyone into either a target or collateral damage, hence killable or destroyable,” says the report.

Albanese is one of the most infamously antisemitic diplomats to work at the UN since Waldheim.

She’s a 10/7 apologist.  Not just a Hamas apologist, but specifically regarding what happened on 10/7/23.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Those saying this resolution being passed "means nothing" because fighting hasn't stopped yet, rather miss the point. What has just happened is a pretty big deal.

Not really?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Here are my thoughts...

A ceasefire is unlikely from both sides. Netanyahu doesn't want a 6 week ceasefire, because the international pressure to make it permenant will be the most Israel ever experienced. Netanyahu needs to defeat Hamas to maintain in power. Even if Netanyahu somehow agreed to a 6 week ceasefire, why would Hamas agree to a ceasefire while the IDF still controls Gazan cities? Hamas won't agree to an agreement where they turn over hostages yet Israel remains in a position to take Rafah after 6 weeks.

The best case scenario would be for Hamas to be allowed to flee Gaza for a third country, allowing for the Palestinian Authority to take over. I suspect the US is secretly pushing for this. The only alternatives would be an Israeli assult on Rafah, which will easily result in 100k dead Palestinians or Israel withdraws from Gaza. But this is unlikely. Why would Hamas agree to leave? Unlike the PLO in 1988, they have no hope of ever returning. Most Hamas fighters are unmarried men. Family is very important in the Muslim world, these men would be giving up the chance to get married and have kids. Netanyahu needs a solid victory, allowing Hamas to flee isn't that.

There are two likely scenarios

1. Israel invades Rafah, causing mass international outrage but finally defeats Hamas. But destroys their relationship with the US

2. The US informs Israel that a Rafah invasion means no more aide and destroying their special relationship. Netanyahu no longer cares but the rest of the Israeli government decides to remove him from power to prevent scenario 1 from happening

There is no universe where Israel attacking Rafah destroys its relationship with the US.  They would be a response, but the US and Israel would definitely remain major allies

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Here are my thoughts...

A ceasefire is unlikely from both sides. Netanyahu doesn't want a 6 week ceasefire, because the international pressure to make it permenant will be the most Israel ever experienced. Netanyahu needs to defeat Hamas to maintain in power. Even if Netanyahu somehow agreed to a 6 week ceasefire, why would Hamas agree to a ceasefire while the IDF still controls Gazan cities? Hamas won't agree to an agreement where they turn over hostages yet Israel remains in a position to take Rafah after 6 weeks.

The best case scenario would be for Hamas to be allowed to flee Gaza for a third country, allowing for the Palestinian Authority to take over. I suspect the US is secretly pushing for this. The only alternatives would be an Israeli assult on Rafah, which will easily result in 100k dead Palestinians or Israel withdraws from Gaza. But this is unlikely. Why would Hamas agree to leave? Unlike the PLO in 1988, they have no hope of ever returning. Most Hamas fighters are unmarried men. Family is very important in the Muslim world, these men would be giving up the chance to get married and have kids. Netanyahu needs a solid victory, allowing Hamas to flee isn't that.

There are two likely scenarios

1. Israel invades Rafah, causing mass international outrage but finally defeats Hamas. But destroys their relationship with the US

2. The US informs Israel that a Rafah invasion means no more aide and destroying their special relationship. Netanyahu no longer cares but the rest of the Israeli government decides to remove him from power to prevent scenario 1 from happening

There is no universe where Israel attacking Rafah destroys its relationship with the US.  They would be a response, but the US and Israel would definitely remain major allies

I doubt Biden and Netanyahu would be on speaking terms. Same goes for most Democrats. They would remain allies but the relationship wouldn't be the same. Think LBJ and Britain during Vietnam

This I agree with, but I also think that as with Britain it would eventually recover.  It was the word “destroy” I took issue with.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Israel violating UN resolution by dropping bombs on Rafah.

https://twitter.com/mhdksafa/status/1772780840134553885

But…but…but Atlas told me the UN resolution was a big deal

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I’ve had to take a break from updates so let’s get caught up:

- Israel has continued its Al-Qarara offensive and had considerable success there.  They took the southeast quarter of the city first and rather than just moving along, really worked to take out the local Hamas infrastructure there so it couldn’t just come right back later.  At this point, Israel controls the entire southern half of the city as well as the southeast quarter of the northern half.  

- The push to reach and take the central Gaza coastline, by contrast, has fizzled out with Hamas successfully halting Israeli progress here for now.

- While little was taken in the way of actual population areas, Israeli forces in Abasan Al-Kabira (Israel controls all but the central third of the city) and Khuz’a (despite several offensives, Israel remains stuck at controlling only 3/4 of the city with Hamas firmly holding onto northwestern and parts of west-central Khuz’a) successfully linked up.  I wouldn’t be surprised if this is for an offensive in one of these cities, but which one is anyone’s guess.  

- Neither Israel nor Hamas will say who, but a high-level Hamas leader was apparently the target of an Israeli drone strike in Lebanon, but survived with only minor injuries.

- It is being reported pretty widely that unlike with Al-Arouri, Marwan Issa was found due to a combination of assistance from US intelligence passed along to Israel and an Israeli mole within Hamas.  I personally think this is Israeli disinformation to scare and stoke paranoia within the top Hamas leadership.  If Israeli intelligence had a mole well-placed enough to give them Marwan Issa’s location, then the last thing they’d be doing is broadcasting that to any journalist who will listen.  

- Whatever Netanyahu says publicly, while a Rafah invasion may yet come, it’s pretty clear it is not happening right now and the plans formed were for a future operation that may or may not end up happening.  I think Biden deserves a lot of credit for that, not that he’ll get it.  He almost certainly saved innocent lives by publicly drawing a red line with Netanyahu there.

- While Marwan Issa’s death is old news, it’s now being reported that Razi Abu Tama’ah (some articles spell his last name differently) - the Head of Hamas’ Combat Support Array and Head of non-explosive weapons procurement - was also killed in the same air strike.  He’s a lower level guy in the Hamas leadership hierarchy and really just a solidly mid-tier military guy, but he was still notable enough to be considered a significant target in his own right by Israel.  

- Israeli troops killed Ra’ad Thabat last night during the ongoing battle at the Al-Shaifa hospital complex.  Thabat - Hamas’ Head of Weapons Research, the Head of Hamas’ Weapons Production Unit, and a member of Hamas’ Political Bureau - was killed during a gunfight that ensued as he attempted to escape from Israeli troops who found him and several other terrorists hiding in part of complex.  Thabat was considered by Israel to be among the top ten surviving members of Hamas’ military wing at the time of his death.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

5 aid workers have been killed by an Israeli air strike. Among them are are Australian, Polish, UK and Irish nationals

This is especially bad because it appears the group coordinated its movements there with the IDF and gave notice (and received a green light to depart) that it was unloading food trucks at an Al-Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade complex.  That it was doing so is sketchy at best, but it did receive approval and the IDF isn’t denying that they knew the aid group was doing so then.  The IDF says it’s investigating what happened here and it doesn’t sound like this was approved by leadership reading between the lines, but someone above the “random low-level rogue soldier” level presumably had to sign off.  I will wait for more information before making final judgement, but if everything is as it appears then this is completely unacceptable on the part of the IDF.  Tell them they can’t unload food trucks at terrorist groups’ compounds or better yet, bomb the Al-Aqsa Martyr’s brigade complex itself well after the aide workers have left.  If everything is as it seems with this, then it’s not like this was even the only way to pull off some vital operation.

I would also note that this is not the only recent Israeli military action I have a real problem with.  I get that the airstrike in Damascus was a rare opportunity to take out some really bad and high-level targets (a top level commander of an elite unit of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who was also in charge of all Iranian intelligence and paramilitary operations in Syria and Lebanon, two other senior commanders, and four prominent Iranian military advisors), but this was completely unacceptable for a whole host of reasons.

The plain and simple fact is that you can’t do air strikes on embassies.  Some are claiming Israel merely bombed the residence of the Iranian Ambassador to Syria when he was absent and a meeting was being held there, but that’d be even worse.  Imagine if Iran blew up the Israeli Embassy in Turkey.  Does anyone honestly believe the US wouldn’t be screaming bloody murder or that Israel wouldn’t rightly be treating that as an act of war?  Even if Yahya Sinwar, Haniyeh, Deif, and Mashal had all been camped out there and been killed in the strike, this would still reckless, irresponsible, and completely unacceptable conduct by Israel.  You cannot bomb embassies or ambassador residences.  There is no excuse for this and I hope there are some sort of consequences or proportionate UN sanctions on Israel for doing this.  

By contrast, the hospital complex raid was a pretty unambiguous military success and I don’t chide Israel at all for doing it.  This was an area where Israel had expelled Hamas before and then Hamas essentially came back and converted it into a military intelligence compound of sorts.  A lot of valuable intelligence and documents were seized, hundreds of Hamas and PIJ militants were captured, some notable lower-level Hamas intelligence operatives were killed, and one of the top ten guys in Hamas’ military hierarchy was killed in a gunfight while he tried to escape Israeli soldiers who found him hiding in the maternity ward (hot off the heels of another notable military guy turning out to have been unexpectedly killed in the Issa airstrike, making it a two for one).

That said, it is important to acknowledge that the Al-Shaifa raid was not without its downside.  Because Hamas made a major base in a large hospital complex upon quietly retaking it, tons of Palestinian civilians who had been sheltering there were in the line of fire.  While I think Israel was definitely right to drive Hamas from the complex and that the operation should be considered a success, it is still important to acknowledge and not hand waive away the very real human cost resulting from Hamas’ strategy of turning Palestinian civilians into human shields.  It makes the unnecessary loss of innocent lives inevitable and that is a horrible tragedy whether those lives are Palestinian, Israeli, or any other group.  Innocent lives are innocent lives and you can acknowledge the necessity of something like the Al-Shaifa Hospital operation while still mourning the innocent lives lost.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Multiple charities have announced that they're suspending deliveries after the attack on the WCK convoy:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/charities-halt-gaza-operations-after-israeli-drones-kill-aid-workers

So I guess that attack worked out as intended.

Let's not jump the gun and assume that was the intent here. While I do have quite a few issues with how Israel has conducted itself, I doubt that it's official IDF doctrine to target aid workers.

That said, I doubt this was just some random soldier. The order for strikes like this would have to come for middle-ranking officers at the lowest, as would the follow-up strikes, which are far less defensible.

I share your sentiment to some extent, but it's looking VERY bad for Israel here. World Central Kitchen was fully in contact with the IDF, kept them aware of their exact location and travel plans, and their vans were clearly marked on the top with their logo. This seems like Israel intentionally killing aid workers who were working to prevent widespread famine.

I would be careful not to conflate “the IDF is deliberately killing aid workers” with “some mid-level or even upper mid-level nutcase went General Jack D. Ripper and unilaterally decided to order an attack on aid workers.”  It’s fairly clear imo that the higher level Israeli political and military leadership are both pretty pissed that this happened.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1777393184340955409

Hamas likely killed all the hostages.

If that's confirmed, the odds are there is no force on Earth that can force Israel into a surrender.

There never was

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1777393184340955409

Hamas likely killed all the hostages.

If that's confirmed, the odds are there is no force on Earth that can force Israel into a surrender.

There never was

No one was ever asking Israel to apart from the insane and-primarily-caricatures of people like me you invented in your own heads. It truly is amazing how the deaths of seven aid workers is seen-somehow-as irrelevant by people.

Get out into the real world every now and then.

Cool, now try responding to something I actually said rather than the insane caricatures you’ve invented in your own head of people like me.  It’s amazing how quick you are to resort to making outlandishly false claims about people you disagree with.

Get out into the real world every now and then.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Be weary of reports Israel killed this or that major Hamas figure.  They’ve been trying to spin various things as taking out major targets to act like they’re taking out a new major target every 1-2 days, but it is basically Israeli propaganda.  

For example, one of Haniyeh’s sons was a very low mid-tier guy in Hamas and the other two were basically bottom-level foot soldiers.  Yes, they’re Haniyeh’s sons, but none were being groomed for even upper mid-tier leadership, so this was nothing special.  Certainly not a good enough reason to turn his young grandchildren into collateral.  Yet this is being billed by some as some sort of major symbolic victory.  Similarly, a few days ago Israel took out a generic mid-level guy in Hezbollah and certain pro-Israel online media outlets have been trying to cast him as some top-tier once in a generation brilliant intelligence operative.

If someone notable in Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the Popular Resistance Committees, Hezbollah, PFLP, DFLP (some major Judean People’s Front vs. People’s Front of Judea action going on with those last two), I’ll post it here.  No one notable in Hamas has been killed since Israel took out the target of the most recent Al-Shaifa Hospital Complex raid.  

At some point, I’m going to make a running list of the leadership/notable guys in these groups and their status along with continuous updates so people can see how much progress Israel is or isn’t making without sifting through pages and pages of this thread.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/djrothkopf/status/1782750484274561381

https://twitter.com/djrothkopf/status/1782406552084758759

https://twitter.com/glcarlstrom/status/1783405441810116820

David Rothkopf is a registered foreign agent of the UAE

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If I wanted my accusations to be taken seriously, I would simply not use an outlet named after a mass murder pogrom.

Fair enough, is this more suitable for your liking Ray?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-17/ty-article/.premium/unrwa-israeli-army-forced-staff-to-confess-ties-to-hamas-using-torture/0000018e-ed4f-d5d5-a59f-ef5f32280000

Nope, strike two (can’t speak Ray, but I’m sure he’ll agree).  All this article says before the paywall is that UNRWA is making these allegations.  Given that they are facing extremely credible and serious allegations of deliberately and actively aiding a genocidal terrorist group, I’m not sure why anyone should trust a word they say.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If I wanted my accusations to be taken seriously, I would simply not use an outlet named after a mass murder pogrom.

Fair enough, is this more suitable for your liking Ray?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-17/ty-article/.premium/unrwa-israeli-army-forced-staff-to-confess-ties-to-hamas-using-torture/0000018e-ed4f-d5d5-a59f-ef5f32280000

Ah, yes, paywalled, unfortunately, but I can see enough. Looks like both sides have levied fairly extreme accusations against each other, and I'm sure there will be further investigations.

You can get around the paywall by pasting the URL into archive.is. Here is the unblocked article.

UNRWA: Israeli Army Forced Staff to Confess Ties to Hamas Using Torture
A report published by the UN agency for Palestinian refugees includes accounts by its staff members who were detained in Israel of being threatened and coerced to make false confessions that agency staffers took part in the October 7 Hamas attacks

UNRWA, the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees, accused Israeli security forces of using torture to extract false confessions from its employees about their ties to Hamas.

A report published by the agency Tuesday includes accounts by detainees working for the agency of abuse that included beatings by interrogators and doctors working with the military, as well as attacks by dogs and threats of rape and murder.

According to UNRWA, over 1,506 detainees from the Gaza Strip have been released from IDF custody after being interrogated, including 23 UNRWA staff and 16 family members of UNRWA staff.

In recent months, Israel has claimed that at least 30 UNRWA employees participated in the October 7 Hamas attack. In the wake of the accusations, some 20 countries and institutions suspended funding to the agency, but some of them have since resumed their support.

According to the report, UNRWA staff members detained by Israel were pressured to confess that agency staffers took part in the October 7 attacks. The abuse, which involved threats and coercion, included "treatment akin to waterboarding," according to the report.

According to data in the report, among the detainees who were released through the Kerem Shalom crossing into the Gaza Strip, without facing prosecution, were 43 minors and 84 women. According to the agency, they were interrogated several times prior to their release from Shin Bet custody.

Detainees described having all items in their possession at the time of their arrest confiscated, including identification documents and money. According to data obtained by Haaretz, 27 Gazan detainees have died in military facilities in Israel since the start of the war. It is not known, however, how many of them were suffering from health problems or from injuries due to the war before their arrest.

Most of the Gazans arrested by Israel are detained under the Unlawful Combatants Law, which permits the detention without trial of anyone who participated in hostile activity who is not classified by Israel as a prisoner of war.

In December, the cabinet approved an amendment to the law that degrades the conditions in which detainees may be held, and allows detainees suspected of involvement in terrorism to be held for 75 days without being brought before a judge.

In a report published by the UN refugee agency last month, it was claimed that Gazan detainees, of whom at least 1,000 civilians were released, were held in three military detention facilities in Israel, where they were beaten, robbed, stripped, sexually assaulted, blindfolded and denied access to doctors and lawyers, sometimes for more than a month.

The IDF submitted the following response: "We cannot respond to the testimonies mentioned in the report individually without the full details of the detainees and verification that they were held in IDF detention facilities.

During the fighting in the Gaza Strip, Palestinians suspected of terrorist activity are detained. The relevant suspects are taken for further detention and questioning in Israeli territory. Those who appear not to be involved in terrorist activity are released back to the Gaza Strip.

The interrogations are carried out in accordance with Israeli and international law while protecting the rights of detainees held in detention and interrogation facilities.

Inappropriate behavior towards detainees in detention and interrogation contravenes IDF orders and values. Any allegation of misconduct by IDF soldiers is investigated and dealt with accordingly. In appropriate cases, investigations are opened by the Military Police's Investigations Unit when there is a suspicion of inappropriate behavior.

The IDF rejects claims that it coerces detainees into giving false confessions. In addition, the IDF rejects allegations of systematic and deliberate abuse of detainees, including sexual abuse, in the detention and interrogation facilities under its responsibility. Allegations of sexual abuse are intended to create a false comparison to the systematic and cruel rapes committed by Hamas. It should be emphasized that so far not a single complaint has been submitted regarding sexual abuse of detainees by IDF soldiers, and as stated, the allegations cannot be clarified without providing the detainees' identifying details."

In other words, the group that got caught actively aiding Hamas’ genocidal terrorist campaign is attempting damage control by basically saying “umm…uhhh…I know!  The (((Israelis))) were torturing us!  Yeah, that’s it!  We didn’t do anything wrong when we aided Hamas and some of our employees took part in the 10/7 attack because the (((Israelis))) tortured false confessions out of our people!  Evidence?  Evidence?  We don’t need no stinkin’ evidence!  #TotalExoneration”

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If I wanted my accusations to be taken seriously, I would simply not use an outlet named after a mass murder pogrom.

Fair enough, is this more suitable for your liking Ray?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-17/ty-article/.premium/unrwa-israeli-army-forced-staff-to-confess-ties-to-hamas-using-torture/0000018e-ed4f-d5d5-a59f-ef5f32280000

Nope, strike two (can’t speak Ray, but I’m sure he’ll agree).  All this article says before the paywall is that UNRWA is making these allegations.  Given that they are facing extremely credible and serious allegations of deliberately and actively aiding a genocidal terrorist group, I’m not sure why anyone should trust a word they say.

So credible that the German government, who are even bigger cheerleaders for Bibi than the Biden admin, restored their funding.

No, Germany basically said “we aren’t quite convinced enough that they were aiding terrorists not to restore funding, but it’s possible that they were.”

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Jake Shields is a more reliable source than the IDF, prove me wrong

(also he isn't the source the confessing IDF soldier is)

Just keep on telling on yourself. That's right, the CTE Nazi who calls people "Lying Jews" is a credible source. You're in good company.

I mean, ModernBourbonDemocrat is an anti-Semite himself (I recommend putting him on ignore, nothing of value will be lost), so I’m sure he considers Fields being a Nazi who calls people “lying Jews” a testament to his credibility.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

No, Germany basically said “we aren’t quite convinced enough that they were aiding terrorists not to restore funding, but it’s possible that they were.”

You're the second person who has asserted this without providing any source in support.

At best the independent review the German government cited states that Israel has not provided any evidence for their claims:

Of note, UNRWA screens names using the New Consolidated List27 es-
tablished and maintained by the Security Council Committee. However, to
date, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, for example, have not been included in this
list by the UN Security Council.
UNRWA shares staff lists (names and functions) annually with host coun-
tries (Lebanon, Jordan and Syria), and with Israel and the US for East Je-
rusalem, Gaza and the West Bank.28 Sharing information on UN staff with
host countries is a regular practice that follows the Convention on Immunity
22
and Privileges. It is then the responsibility of these States to alert UNRWA
of any information that may deem a staff member unworthy of diplomatic
immunity. Of note, the Israeli Government has not informed UNRWA of any
concerns relating to any UNRWA staff based on these staff lists since 2011.
During meetings with Israeli officials, it was communicated that Israel does
not consider the sharing of the staff list as a screening or vetting process,
but as a standard procedure for the registration of UN and diplomatic staff
to ensure their privileges and immunities.
The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs informed that until March 2024, they
had received staff lists without identification (ID) numbers. On the basis of
the March 2024 list, which contained staff ID numbers, Israel made public
claims that a significant number of UNRWA employees are members of
terrorist organizations. However, Israel has yet to provide supporting evi-
dence of this.

https://www.unrwa.org/resources/reports/independent-review-mechanisms-and-procedures-ensure-adherence-unrwa-humanitarian

There is also a separate investigation into the claims of a dozen employees being involved in Oct. 7, ten of whom have been fired.

UNRWA isn’t a credible source for anything

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The likes in this thread have gotten really illuminating!

Stop. I only said innocent until proven guilty. I've been skeptical of some of these reports about Israel torturing people because I want to see conclusive evidence.

If you're going to tell UNRWA is a terrorist organisation, then give me conclusive evidence. As pointed out above, UNRWA themselves didn't conclude they had no part in it, but an independent review did. Evidently, what they found was not conclusive enough to the German government to halt funding entirely.

My dude, you are definitely not who I am referring to, as you have not liked any posts defending the use of a holocaust-denying Neo-Nazi as an anti-Israel source. We were having a perfectly respectable conversation about the UNRWA issue.

The 5(!) links that MBD provided about the IDF torturing people are all valid sources that have nothing to do with Jake Shields, but you haven't responded to them either.

I could easily point out the many issues with those links, including the accusations against some of the sources or the fact that they all rely on similar sources for their accusations, but I would be dancing for an audience of people who think it's okay to post a Holocaust survivor if he's saying the right things, so *shrug*

That should say Holocaust denier

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

On Friday, an Israeli airstrike in Gaza City killed the daughter and grandson of the prominent Palestinian poet Refaat Alareer, who was killed in an Israeli airstrike in December. Shaima Refaat Alareer died Friday along with her husband and 2-month-old son. Shaima had recently written a message on Facebook addressed to her late father, writing, “I have a beautiful news for you, I wish I could convey it to you while you are in front of me, I present to you your first grandchild. Do you know, my father, that you have become a grandfather? This is your grandson Abd al-Rahman whom I have long imagined you carrying, but I never imagined that I would lose you early even before you see him.” The website Electronic Intifada reports Shaima Refaat Alareer and her family were killed while sheltering in the building of Global Communities, an international relief charity.

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/29/headlines/israeli_airstrike_kills_daughter_grandson_and_son_in_law_of_acclaimed_poet_refaat_alareer

R.I.P. to the Alareer family.

Imagine actually considering Electronic Intifada a credible source

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

On Friday, an Israeli airstrike in Gaza City killed the daughter and grandson of the prominent Palestinian poet Refaat Alareer, who was killed in an Israeli airstrike in December. Shaima Refaat Alareer died Friday along with her husband and 2-month-old son. Shaima had recently written a message on Facebook addressed to her late father, writing, “I have a beautiful news for you, I wish I could convey it to you while you are in front of me, I present to you your first grandchild. Do you know, my father, that you have become a grandfather? This is your grandson Abd al-Rahman whom I have long imagined you carrying, but I never imagined that I would lose you early even before you see him.” The website Electronic Intifada reports Shaima Refaat Alareer and her family were killed while sheltering in the building of Global Communities, an international relief charity.

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/29/headlines/israeli_airstrike_kills_daughter_grandson_and_son_in_law_of_acclaimed_poet_refaat_alareer

R.I.P. to the Alareer family.

Imagine actually considering Electronic Intifada a credible source

Democracy Now is a credible news source and that's where I gather the information.

Your excerpt says they got it from Electric Intifada which doesn’t speak well of their credibility

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

For f***'s sake! Hamas cannot be "destroyed."

All that's been literally destroyed (other than Gaza and the lives of its residents) is Israel's reputation.

If there is a deal, and all hostages are released, the priority should be rebuilding Gaza. Keep security around the border if necessary, but this needs to end.

Why can't Hamas be destroyed?

Because you can't shoot an idea, as Thomas Dewey once said.

I think it really depends on what you mean, actually.  If you mean literally “can Hamas be destroyed” or better yet merely neutralized as a threat going forward even if some rump organization persists, then I think the answer is definitely “yes.”  I’d admittedly add the caveat that it will take years rather than months and anyone who claims otherwise is a liar, a fool, or both, but the point stands.  There is recent precedent for this too.  

Look at Al-Qaeda (a much stronger more and far more global organization than Hamas consequentially took much longer to destroy), of the top guys (using a very broad definition) in Al-Qaeda pre-9/11, everyone except Saif Al-Adel has been killed or captured.  And Al-Adel is only alive b/c he basically chose to spend the rest of his life under house arrest in Iran.  Al-Qaeda is still around here and there, but not in a meaningful way.  They’re no longer a real threat and have basically been destroyed and/or absorbed into various other groups.

In that sense, Hamas can absolutely be destroyed and in much less time than Al-Qaeda took (albeit it’ll still take years imo).  Now, if you mean the broader threat of Palestinian terrorism then no, that is not going anywhere for the foreseeable future regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Remember, Hamas is an organization rather than an idea.  And Hamas is bad enough that “the next group will only be worse” argument is pretty weak tea at best.  At a certain point, some groupe are evil, violent, and dangerous enough that it becomes a distinction without a difference or that the group’s continued existence is unacceptable regardless of who replaces them.  

I will say that I fundamentally reject the idea that eliminating Hamas requires some sort of mass destruction of Palestinians in Gaza.  I don’t think that is what Israel is doing now, but I want to be clear that I am not advocating such and disagree with posters on both sides who have (for very different reasons) at times attempted to conflate the Palestinian population of Gaza with Hamas.  It is an extremely important and meaningful distinction (Hamas vs. the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza), no matter what you believe about the conflict

"We will go into Rafah even if a ceasefire is agreed" makes absolutely no actual sense does it??

So you could, from an optimistic standpoint, just see it as Bibi bulls***ing to please his audience.

He has the same problem Obama had re: invading Syria if Al-Assad used chemical weapons.  Netanyahu made a big show out of telling everyone he was going to do something that he only later realized he might not actually be willing to do given the likely consequences of said action.  So now Netanyahu can’t act like he’s backing down, but also seems to know (maybe I’m being overly optimistic here) that he can’t actually invade Rafah (at least, not in the manner he’d intended).

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Netanhayu has made it pretty clear from day 1 that the only choices in the negotiations are either Gaza gets leveled now or it gets leveled after the hostages are released. Meanwhile, Hamas has said with slightly less force that any negotiations must leave them in power or at least safe after hostages are released.

This is why I dont put much faith in any of the negotiations that we keep hearing about.

I think if he was to try to go for total war in Rafah after getting the hostages back, that would probably jeopardize US support and thus lead to his government getting toppled. So that factors in a lot.

I think his thinking is that if he gets the hostages back (assuming they haven't been killed), then Biden's opinion will not matter because he can go all-out and reliably get the Republicans to support everything he does.

He has definitely calculated that if he can drag this out, then he gets his mate Donald back in then he has free licence to do what he likes.

I think this reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of Netanyahu.  He just wants to keep power, anything he does in relation to US politics stems from that.  The US Presidential election is the least of his concerns right now.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1786717441529188604?t=cCLNz_PoA016U-VZiwhp...

Yay?

It was a terrible deal

https://twitter.com/IsraelRadar_com/status/1786666447160177068

Yeah, this doesn’t sound like a serious proposal

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Thomas Friedman, who is definitely in the Biden orbit, wrote about a week ago that Israel can either choose Rafah or Riyadh. They've chosen Rafah and they will face the inevitable isolation which comes with that.

No one except Jared Kusher (and apparently Thomas Friedman, very much a washes up has been that never was) cares whether Saudi Arabia and Israel normalize relations

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Bibi is now making up lies in order to justify the invasion. How many allies died fighting the Nazi's? I'm pretty sure that number is somewhere in the millions.

The only nations that can be said to have come to the aid of the Jewish people at all during the Holocaust were Bulgaria and Denmark.  And even there, it was only to a point.  The allies could have easily bombed the railroads leading to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau, etc.  They didn’t do so because they didn’t care.