Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread v2 (pg 77 - declares victory in Iowa)

[GoTfan]

This is such a silly complaint, man.

There's nothing wrong with Obama going out and asking someone to run for a position if he feels that person would do a better job.  If Ellison was such a great candidate he wouldn't have gotten his ass whooped by a "last-minute entrant" (by the way, that "last-minute" was two months before the race, and Perez/Obama probably waited until after the 2016 election to decide).

That isn't an establishment conspiracy to stop Bernie Sanders.  And it's certainly not something that justifies Bernie leading his supporters to boo the "Democratic establishment" over Republicans and Trump.

By the way, wasn't one of Bernie's chief complaints in 2016 that the DNC wasn't impartial, and he wanted it to be impartial?  Why is it a big conspiracy that Ellison didn't become chair, if the point was for the DNC to be impartial?  Could it be that Bernie actually wanted Ellison to make the DNC an arm of the Sanders campaign?

You're assuming either of them acted in good faith, which is a bad start. Perez was apparently extremely reluctant to run in the first place, and was basically shoved in by Obama, or at least that's what every single media outlet said, and then we were told there was no difference in their positions. Why would Perez be forced to run if he and Ellison had fundamentally similar ideas?

Answer: It was a concerted effort to halt a progressive from attaining a leadership position.

Maybe Obama, having worked with Perez for several years, thought he would be a more effective leader than the easily-demonized, obviously biased Ellison?

I also don't see what's wrong with trying to stop a Bernie ally from taking over the DNC.  Bernie's obviously playing a partisan game and declared war on the DNC, why isn't the DNC allowed to push back?  Perez easily defeated Ellison so obviously Ellison wasn't a very appealing candidate in the first place.

You're acting like this was all some big conspiracy to stop Sanders from gaining power when there's really no conspiracy to it.  There are a lot of reasons why Obama and the majority of DNC members preferred Perez to Ellison.  Ellison being a pawn of Sanders was one of those reasons.  It probably wasn't the most important reason.

Perez isn't obviously biased? he said the DNC shuld stay out of primaries. He then went and endorsed a primary candidate in his capacity as DNC chair.

It was a deliberate attempt to prevent progressives from gaining a leadership position and a chance for Obama to maintain his grip on the party.

I didn't think the Cuomo endorsement was appropriate, even though Cynthia Nixon is a ginormous idiot.

You can layer on all the insinuations and hostile assumptions you want, but the truth is you have no idea why Perez ran, why Obama asked him to run, why the party supported him, or why people wanted Ellison out.  Reasons may include:

• Perez being a guy Obama knew and could vouch for
• Ellison being a jackass with a checkered past and poor political instincts
• Perez being more qualified for the job due to better connections + ideas
• The party specifically not wanting a Bernie Sanders pawn to take control of the apparatus
• The DNC hates progressives and progressive ideas

You've just assumed it's the last one based on nothing other than your wanting it to be true.

Given the hostility that the Democrats have for their progressive wing (and that you seem to have as well), I'd say it's not entirely unfounded.

[GoTfan]

Answer: It was a concerted effort to halt a progressive from attaining a leadership position.

Tom Perez was considered something of a progressive hero too, up until the moment he dared to challenge Ellison.
Supporting Sanders and his minions isn't the be-all end-all of progressivism.

Then why does he challenge Ellison at Obama's request?

Are you saying that Ellison was entitled to be DNC chair? Otherwise, this question might as well be why did Ellison run for DNC chair.

It's astonishing that Berniecrats attack the establishment 24/7 and then expect from it to sit on its hands and just accept that a Bernie acolyte like Ellison be coronated DNC president.
That is the definition of arrogance and entitlement.

Still upset that he had the gall to run for President, I see.

Maybe he should break off into a third party and take his supporters with him. That would make you happy, right?

[GoTfan]

Still upset that he had the gall to run for President, I see.

Maybe he should break off into a third party and take his supporters with him. That would make you happy, right?

Do you have something relevant to say about the subject we were talking instead of this passive-aggressive malarkey?

Hang on, you're going to give me a lecture in being passive-aggressive?

I think the irony meter just broke.

[GoTfan]

David Sirota is walking evidence of how morally and ethically bankrupt the Sanders campaign is.

I shouldn't even have to tell you that this video is out-of-context and incredibly misleading.  You should just know it from the fact that it's in a Sirota tweet.

"Morally and ethically bankrupt".  
 

David Sirota has been vicious towards the Democratic Party and it's members. We'll never forget that him and Briana supported Jill Stein over Hillary, being the Bernie voters who flipped the election when they cried and pout that Saint Bernard was not crowned the nominee. That these people bought the ludicrous conspiracy theory that the DNC RIGGED the primary in favor of Hillary Clinton, when she won the most delegates fair and square.

His hirings show how much contempt Bernie has for the party.

Why not NEVER FORGET the idiots at Clinton's campaign who ran a horrible campaign so unaware they spent money in New Orleans to pump up the popular vote margin since they were so sure they'd win the electoral college. Sanders held more events for HRC in the midwest than she did for herself in the final months of the campaign and, being someone who supported HRC in the primaries last time around, I'm so tired of the ridiculously childish and inaccurate idea that anyone at Bernie's campaign is remotely responsible for HRC's loss. Stop blaming others. It's been four years.

Part of the reason Sanders has to win is for this four-year blame game to end. It's annoying and unproductive.

Silly me, I keep forgetting this is the Hillary Clinton 2016 campaign meathead.

We're not the ones who continuously blame anyone but her for losing to Donald Trump.

[GoTfan]

Biden is incapable of uttering a sentence with any actual substance. Those being the rare occasions where he is able to utter a sentence.

Post Deleted by Moderator

.Anyone using this attack is likely more conservative than liberal.

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/vetthebern/status/1215115147728973825

It's worth pointing out that the Twitter account posting this is explicitly ant-Sanders. This is their literal description:

A project of The People's View, Vetting Bernie will expose why Bernie Sanders is unfit to be the Democratic nominee or to serve as president.

Sounds like a Fox News version of 'Fair and Balanced' to me.

[GoTfan]

Sending volunteers out to the doors to talk sh**t about other Democrats is disgusting but it’s Sanders so his fans will hand wave it and call people who don’t like it sensitive but would have been ready to burn down Warren HQ if she even THOUGHT of doing that to him.

Meltdown alert.

[GoTfan]

Sending volunteers out to the doors to talk sh**t about other Democrats is disgusting but it’s Sanders so his fans will hand wave it and call people who don’t like it sensitive but would have been ready to burn down Warren HQ if she even THOUGHT of doing that to him.

Seems like everyone's freaking out over a non-story

https://twitter.com/ericisaac/status/1216445568148480002

But don't let the facts interrupt an opportunity to rant about THE BROS!

RFKfan would likely vote for Trump over Sanders anyway. As would a lot of Atlas Democrats it seems.

[GoTfan]

Disappointing to see Bernie go so negative like that against Warren. Takes away any doubt that I'll support Biden if Warren drops out before Maryland votes. Sanders needs to go return to the backbench or better yet retire.

"I don't like when he acts like a candidate so I'll never support him."

[GoTfan]

The vindication is real. LOL!

https://twitter.com/AlxThomp/status/1217207063014789123?s=20

The amount of you who were in this thread hollering that it was a smear job by the media. Y’all are going to learn to stop stanning politicians like they are celebrities or religious deities to be worshiped.

You can't really talk considering your old Beto fanboyism.

[GoTfan]

The script contains the faintest criticism possible of Warren's campaign, so yes this is a fake news smear propogated by out of touch Twitter eggs.

No you're making a mistake. Sanders is Satan and wants to murder enyone who's not a white man.

[GoTfan]

The script contains the faintest criticism possible of Warren's campaign, so yes this is a fake news smear propogated by out of touch Twitter eggs.

Yeah, I never understood why that was a story to begin with whether the script was real or not. It's insulting to say her supporters tend to be "highly educated and affluent"? It's a fact... and I hardly see how calling anyone either of those things qualifies as an insult.

Personally, my qestion is why did this emerge after a poll shows Sanders leading in Iowa and Warren's support dropping away?

[GoTfan]

These past few weeks have proven to me that Bernie is an unmitigated, political psychopath. He has created a cult following so strong, even Trump dwarfs in comparison. He has done this all while playing a persona of being a “kind/honest old man.” Even the Blue Avatars here seem to think he is genuine and just a bit idealistic at worst. Everything he has done this election cycle so far has been intentional. He is a smart and dangerous man.
I will vote Bernie if it somehow turns into Trump vs Sanders in 2020, but I will vote GOP for any House/Senate race in 2022 if Bernie wins just to keep this guy (and more importantly, his followers, in check)

Are you okay?

[GoTfan]

.
I will vote Bernie if it somehow turns into Trump vs Sanders in 2020, but I will vote GOP for any House/Senate race in 2022 if Bernie wins just to keep this guy (and more importantly, his followers, in check)

The mask comes off. You're no different from our garden-variety blue avatars.

Because I don’t want a mad-cultist having control of the House and the Senate?
This isn’t even about policy, this is about the fact that I can’t, in good conscious, give this man more power. These are the same reasons I will never support Trump, no matter how good the economy is, or if he suddenly changes his positions.

I can understand seeing the personality-driven support around Sanders as similar to Trump's, but in the end Sanders still promotes the better ideas and policy for the country. Furthermore, to want to impede a potential President Sanders with a GOP controlled Congress is only being as self-defeating as you see Sanders' persona as. You're ignoring how diverse the Democratic Party actually is ideologically, especially down-ballot. It doesn't sound like you genuinely care about progress and pursuing what's right if you can't get past your spite for Sanders. And that goes for any Democrat, left-leaner, or Trump/GOP opponent with any candidate.

Oh, absolutely. The guy should be treated like the traitor he is. He may not be supporting Trump, but McConnell is as dangerous as Trump and done as much damage to our democracy (if not more). The fact that he hates Bernie so much he'd be willing to give him a third chance is deeply, deeply disturbing.

1. I am willing to give Sanders a chance, I will vote straight blue in 2020 anyways. Sanders may be dangerous, but Trump is worse.
2. If Sanders proves me wrong, I will happily vote blue in 2022.
3.  I don’t support the turtle, but if Sanders truly is as dangerous as I predict, it will be a necessary evil.

The fact you're even hinting that you support Republicans because of some caricature of Sanders you've made inside your head pretty strongly states you're not a Democrat.

[GoTfan]

I believe your colleague from Washington has already said he'll do the same. Lord knows this Warren spat gives me a hell of a lot more appreciation for Biden. At the end of the day, he's a good man, and that's a hell of a lot more I can say about him than Warren.

Biden is most certainly not a good man.

This whole ordeal may have had me lose some respect for Warren, but let's not pretend that it somehow raises Biden above her in any respect.

Biden is genuinely one of the best people in politics.

snip

I know you're like his surrogate here, but it's genuinely tiring to see such a blatantly untrue statement.

This is a belief that was widely held by people in both parties prior to the election.  Everyone loved Joe.

What, cause he was mean to Anita Hill thirty years ago you're now going to claim he's some awful guy?  Get outta here, Jack.

I question the judgement of anyone who voted for the Iraq War.

[GoTfan]

Bernie Sanders is getting a lot of support from Trump circles lately.  First it was Kevin McCarthy and Donald Trump echoing the Bernie Bro accusation that Pelosi impeaching Trump is a conspiracy to hurt Sanders.

Now Trump, Trump Jr., and Tucker Carlson are all joining in on the Bernie Bro crusade against CNN, with all three declaring the debate "rigged" against Sanders and part of a broader Democratic Party conspiracy to deny him the nomination.

Maybe I was wrong about Sanders all along, based on the last 48 hours it seems he is capable of building a bipartisan coalition... just so long as the goal is to promote outlandish conspiracy theories and attack the Democratic Party.

Yes, because it was rigged. While the moderators provided a contentious atmosphere, it crossed the line into openly calling BS in the debate stage, reporting hearsay as facts, and starting conflicts for money. To put it as plainly as I can, CNN is fake news, meant to back the current establishment and boost their bottom line.

Sure, the Trumpists may agree with us, but we're also not the one defending false charges of sexism with actual sexism, so we have that going for us.

God I sometimes wish CNN would actually spread fake news about Bernie just to show you people what fake news is. Criticism of your candidate isn’t fake news.

If only Buttigieg suporters could learn the same.

[GoTfan]

Disgusting.
This man is a full blown sociopath.
This is a kamikaze ad and is honestly highly flawed as several posters have already mentioned. Shame on him, for once I was starting to feel okay with this guy after his ignoring of Hillary, but he pissed it away.

You've said you'll vote Republican if Sanders wins which invalidates anything you say anout the man.

[GoTfan]

Disgusting.
This man is a full blown sociopath.
This is a kamikaze ad and is honestly highly flawed as several posters have already mentioned. Shame on him, for once I was starting to feel okay with this guy after his ignoring of Hillary, but he pissed it away.

You've said you'll vote Republican if Sanders wins which invalidates anything you say anout the man.

Damned Atlas users misinterpreting my views for their own agenda. I’m really tired of explaining so this will be the last damn time I bother to write a unique response.

FORUMLURKER’S (Unofficial) ULTIMATUM

1. IF BERNIE SANDERS DRAMATICALLY BREAKS DEMOCRATIC NORMS TO PUSH HIS AGENDA AND/OR REFUSES TO PROPERLY CONDEMN VIOLENT ACTS BY HIS SUPPORTERS AGAINST POLITICAL RIVALS IN A TRUMP-ESQUE MANNER, I WILL VOTE FOR THE LARGEST OPPOSITION PARTY IN POWER IN THE 2022 MIDTERMS FOR NATIONAL HOUSE ELECTIONS (Senate Elections will be up to my discretion due to the longer terms)

2. SHOULD THE MENTIONED PARTY IN NUMBER 1 BE THE GOP, I WILL ONLY VOTE FOR THEM ON THE CONDITION THAT I PERCEIVE THAT TRUMPISM IS DYING FROM THE PARTY.

3. THE ABOVE APPLIES TO ANY DEMOCRAT, REPUBLICAN, LIBERTARIAN, OR WHATEVER STUPID PARTY IS IN POWER

4. I SPECIFICALLY MENTION BERNIE BECAUSE HIS RHETORIC, KAMIKAZE STYLE CAMPAIGN, AND HIS LACK OF SPECIFICITY IN REGARDS TO HOW HE WILL PASS HIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION GIVES ME REASON TO BELIEVE SANDERS IS LIKELY TO BREAK THE FIRST TERM.

5. ANYTIME SOME ATLAS USER TRIES TO MISREPRESENT MY POSITION ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT, I WILL ENTER THIS IN AGAIN.

6. ANY SUBJECTIVE/UNCERTAIN TERMS ABOVE WILL BE DETERMINED BY ME, BECAUSE IT’S MY OWN DAMN VOTE.
(Everything above is in all-caps just to emphasize my position clearly)


Do you need me to draw a picture book about it as well? Or has my point been made?

Dude I want you to read this post two or three times more. And on the last time you read I want you to consider from a perspective completely removed from this website. Do you know how absolutely how insane you sound?

Tbh I don’t care if I sound insane. If that is what is needed to make my positions clear, then I will do it.

Buddy, you're not well.

[GoTfan]

Watchdog files FEC complaint against pro-Sanders nonprofit

"WASHINGTON (AP) — The watchdog group Common Cause filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission on Wednesday, alleging that Our Revolution, a political nonprofit organization founded by Bernie Sanders, violated campaign finance law by accepting donations in excess of federal limits while boosting his White House ambitions...

Our Revolution has taken in nearly $1 million from donors whose contributions exceeded those limits and whose identities it hasn’t fully disclosed, according to tax filings for 2016, 2017 and 2018. Much of it came from donors who contributed six-figure sums."

https://apnews.com/cd7a58676b6fc8cbe2f9783f469d0bee

Silent on Clinton's victory fund and refuses to go after anyone else, but goes after Sanders for an alleged violation.

"Non-partisan."

[GoTfan]

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/479644-democratic-strategist-washington-will-freak-out-if-sanders-wins-democratic-nomination

So to the delight of all Bernie Sanders advocates (Trump supporters/surrogates/far left young people who subscribe to online media) , democrats across Washington are freaking out. Trump supporters have been told to vote for Bernie Sanders in the primary if possible.

The fear is that Bernie will be unpalatable that the democrats will shoot themselves in the foot and Trump will be re-elected. Its safe to say, millions of democrats that are affluent that will be put in a very difficult position come election day. Will you vote for a person that will hurt your life or will you hold your nose and vote for Trump. The democrats could have had my vote but have chosen a different path. I'm even thinking if I can vote for Elissa Slotkin for congress with Bernie on the ballot as a message needs to be sent to Bernie Sanders supporters that populism is a disease. Replacing one bomb thrower for another doesn't give me a choice.

In the UK, like Sanders online supporters, Corbyn was consistently told that he would lead the labor party to a landslide defeat. The reply was the policies are popular. Young people wee motivated and the membership of the party was behind Corbyn. Its the same with Sanders - they never listen and they are going to lead the party to a catastrophic defeat. Washington knows it. Congressional democrats know it. Down ballot democrats know it. And when the defeat comes in on election night - young people will blame democrats.

The party is in crisis and Trump is going to be re-elected.

Are you okay?

[GoTfan]

Literally no one will care about the Rogan controversy outside of twitter, where everyone arguing over it is 100% locked in with a particular candidate anyway.

And? Nobody cares about the basic sh-t Bernie supporters have spent the past 12 months raking the other candidates over the coals about but when he does something like embrace a known racist and homophobe y'all want to act like it doesn't matter. But let's blow up the internet because of an out of context Joe Biden quote from thirty years ago and because Hillary (accurately) said Bernie has accomplished nothing of note in his time of Congress.

Every Sanders supporter is racist and homophobic according to you.

[GoTfan]

It seem to me that he's peaking at exactly the right moment.

[GoTfan]

I think he’d be more effective at wielding institutional levers of power within the executive branch such as agency rule-making authority, executive orders, etc and would pursue a far better foreign policy for starters.

Now we are finally getting down to a somewhat plausible argument. Maybe Biden would be more effective with knowing how to run the executive branch, because he has experience working in the Executive Branch. That is an argument for an "insider" in general, as opposed to an "outsider."

I think though this mostly ends up depending on the people who work in the administration around the President. Perhaps the people who work with Sanders wouldn't know how to draft an executive order correctly, which could slow things down for example. Although typically, after a brief time of getting used to things, new Presidents and administrations learn how to do these things better, which I suspect would be the case with Sanders.

As for foreign policy though, Biden's record is voting for the Iraq war and counseling Obama to not to do the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden. If you think that that suggests his foreign policy would be better than Bernie's, then that is your prerogative, although I would disagree. IMO because one of the major areas where Presidents actually do have power is foreign policy, that is why having someone who has showed good judgment in the past is particularly important, as I think is definitely more the case with Bernie than with Biden. This is similar to the difference between Clinton and Obama on foreign policy on 2008 - although Clinton was more experienced in foreign policy, she had worse judgment. Experience making the wrong decision is not particularly what I would call a positive for a candidate.

Bernie and Biden are both awful on foreign policy, but at least Biden understands America’s basic foreign policy interests.  It’s basically impossible to be a non-interventionist and have a good foreign policy agenda imo, although many will disagree.  I don’t like the neo-conservatives either, to be clear.  I believe America has to be the world’s policeman because if we’re not then China, Russia, and other enemies, bad actors, and the like will fill the void.  It’s that simple.

I severely question the judgement of anyone who voted for the Iraq War, as should most people.

[GoTfan]

Economics is a social science.
Economists use the scientific method.  Real economists, not some pundit on cable news.

There is a difference between social "science" and actual science (aka "natural" science).

Economics is no more actual science than political science is. Yes, economists, political scientists, sociologists etc can make informed statements that are grounded in more than nothing. That is not the same thing, however, as biology/physics/chemistry/etc, and if you conflate the two then the public will say "oh, science must be BS then" whenever they see questionable social science.

This is a pointless argument.  The point is, people who are experts in which policies are fiscally workable and how such policies would impact America are in near-unanimous agreement that Bernie Sanders' policies are bad.  The reasons why aren't particularly complicated to understand.

https://www.politicususa.com/2016/01/14/170-economists-bernie-sanders-plan-reform-wall-st-rein-greed.html

[GoTfan]

From the oldest LGBTQ magazine: "The Time to Stop Bernie Sanders is NOW"

https://www.washingtonblade.com/2020/01/29/time-to-stop-bernie-sanders-is-now/

Despite the BS Sanders is selling he has never been a leader in any movement whether it is women’s rights, civil rights, LGBTQ rights, disability rights or immigrant rights. People must understand shouting and waving your arms about and selling what was once called ‘snake oil’ isn’t being a leader. It may play to the crowd, and seems to be playing to young people, but in our system of government it doesn’t work to move a progressive agenda forward and for over thirty years in Congress Sanders record of accomplishing practically nothing is proof of that.

Okay.

Was he not one of the first Mayors in America to openly endorse Pride marches? I also remember him being arrested at a civil rights protest and organising sit-ins at the University of Chicago.

Just this part of the article reeks anti-Sanders hyperbole.