What is the best long term solution for Israel/Palestine ?

[pppolitics]

Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) has 4.5 million Palestinians living there.

Imagine if those Palestinians suddenly become citizens of Israel.

Non-Jews (Muslims or otherwise) would suddenly outnumber Jews, making Israel no longer a Jewish majority state.

What Israel wants is to annex OPT without giving citizenship to the Palestinians living there.

That would mean de jure apartheid or ethnic cleansing on a massive scale.

That is probably too distasteful for the US to accept otherwise Israel would do it.

[pppolitics]

Gaza becomes some sort of protectorate, I don't particularly care who administers it because literally anyone else will be better than Hamas.

Israel annexes the West Bank, granting full citizenship to all residents regardless of religion or ethnicity, and embarking on a program to deradicalize those Palestinians sympathetic to terrorist groups. Ideally within a decade most Palestinians can vote in elections, etc.

For the latter part, the only question is whether to just do it now to rip the bandaid off, or delay a decade or so to strengthen Israel's demographic cushion. Such a cushion is needed to ensure Israel can remain both Jewish and democratic after the annexation.

The status quo on the Temple Mount is also unacceptable, though understandable given the fraught circumstances. Any true solution needs to include an allowance for Jews to pray on the Mount - our holiest site -  on at least some fixed number of days each year.

A one and a half state solution, I guess. The West Bank is much less radicalized than Gaza and unlike Gaza I don't think annexing it would endanger Israel's Jewish and democratic character. Israel will need to pump a LOT of money into deradicalization, education, and workforce training for the West Bank Palestinians but that is worth it and far better than the current situation. But before this can happen the Palestinians (Hamas aside) will need to recognize that they've lost, they aren't getting a state, and it's time to look forward rather than backward.

I literally do not care what the path forward is for Gaza as long as whoever administers it next doesn't allow it to be a safe harbor for terrorism. And *anyone else* is better than Hamas.

“So to strengthen Israel’s demographic cushion”

So you want to force an autonomous state into your own country while keeping them a supressed minority? This is invasion s**t and you are on the same moral level as the orcs invading Israel right now. Settlers trying to invade the West Bank can honestly get f**ked and the Palestinian government has every right to do what they want with them.

I guess you don’t care about border security when it’s people you like doing the invading.

Here is a better solution: Israel stays the f**k out of the West Bank, get the invaders out, and actually focuses on defending their borders instead of spending military resources protecting settlers???

Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people. Palestine had so many chances and they turned every one down. And if you think the Jews uniquely have no right to a state where they are the majority after the last 2,000 years of expulsions and genocides, then I don't know what to tell you. Two major world religions are confounded by our continued existence and refusal to convert, and historically every time we think things are finally going smoothly it all goes to shlt again. After 1945 we as a people firmly resolved that never again shall we be led like lambs to the slaughter, resisting only too little and too late. We are done getting pushed around.

Integrating West Bank Palestinians is only possible if it is widely recognized that this will not endanger Israel's Jewish character, yes. These things take time too even in the best of cases. The whole point is that they would not be a "suppressed" minority - like Arab citizens of Israel today, they would enjoy the full rights of citizenship and democratic, civic and economic participation.

I'm not going to dignify Snowstalker's post with a response.

As a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I demand a homeland for our people!

[pppolitics]

Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) has 4.5 million Palestinians living there.

Imagine if those Palestinians suddenly become citizens of Israel.

Non-Jews (Muslims or otherwise) would suddenly outnumber Jews, making Israel no longer a Jewish majority state.

What Israel wants is to annex OPT without giving citizenship to the Palestinians living there.

That would mean de jure apartheid or ethnic cleansing on a massive scale.

That is probably too distasteful for the US to accept otherwise Israel would do it.

The lunatics on here want it both ways, they want a Jewish majority state AND the land of the Palestinian people, they won’t tell you their dirty little secret on how to get both though…

Which is why I'm advocating full Israeli citizenship for West Bank Palestinians and a protectorate for Gaza...

Even giving citizenship to 2.7 million Palestinians in the West Bank would be enough to vote out the far-right Israeli government in power, which is why it won't happen.

[pppolitics]

Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) has 4.5 million Palestinians living there.

Imagine if those Palestinians suddenly become citizens of Israel.

Non-Jews (Muslims or otherwise) would suddenly outnumber Jews, making Israel no longer a Jewish majority state.

What Israel wants is to annex OPT without giving citizenship to the Palestinians living there.

That would mean de jure apartheid or ethnic cleansing on a massive scale.

That is probably too distasteful for the US to accept otherwise Israel would do it.

The lunatics on here want it both ways, they want a Jewish majority state AND the land of the Palestinian people, they won’t tell you their dirty little secret on how to get both though…

Which is why I'm advocating full Israeli citizenship for West Bank Palestinians and a protectorate for Gaza...

Even giving citizenship to 2.7 million Palestinians in the West Bank would be enough to vote out the far-right government in power which is why it won't happen.

Israel must remain a majority Jewish nation

Leave occupied territory. Problem solved.

[pppolitics]

There will be no "long-term solution" until the United States stops giving Israel a free pass.

[pppolitics]

Full citizenship to Palestinians and acknowledge Israel is the homeland of Jews and Arabs. The only way forward is assimilation between both ethnic groups under a new identity. Oh and defeat Hamas if it isn't obvious.

...and henceforth they will be known as Palestijew

[pppolitics]

If the US decides to withhold aid to Israel until a solution is found, the solution will be found in no time.

[pppolitics]

The Two state solution is dead and has been dead for awhile. Similarly the idea of the Israelites and Palestinians living in peace and harmony is complexly unrealistic and would just turn this  religious' ethnic conflict into a serious of bloody Yugoslavia style   conflicts.

The "best" solution probably looks alot like what looks to be happening Azerbaijan and Armenia. One side "wins" in a quick/mostly bloodless way and the other relocates.

Population transfers did a lot to lower tension between Greece and Turkey. They are of course part of the reason Poland/ Germany aren't trying to regain Kaliningrad.

The issue of course comes in where do the Palestinians go. The Arab world for all their Pro-Palestine talk have refused to grant citizenship to any refugees, created by the wars they started.  Jordan makes the most sense.

The problems with the above of of course are clear, but I would argue the cycle of religious/ethnic slaughter is worse. It is sad that this is probably the best way forward but I honesty don't find the other proposals realistic.

The two-state solution is only dead because the United States became Israel's enabler.

If the United States puts its foot down and demand that it happens, the two-state solution is suddenly viable.

[pppolitics]

The Two state solution is dead and has been dead for awhile. Similarly the idea of the Israelites and Palestinians living in peace and harmony is complexly unrealistic and would just turn this  religious' ethnic conflict into a serious of bloody Yugoslavia style   conflicts.

The "best" solution probably looks alot like what looks to be happening Azerbaijan and Armenia. One side "wins" in a quick/mostly bloodless way and the other relocates.

Population transfers did a lot to lower tension between Greece and Turkey. They are of course part of the reason Poland/ Germany aren't trying to regain Kaliningrad.

The issue of course comes in where do the Palestinians go. The Arab world for all their Pro-Palestine talk have refused to grant citizenship to any refugees, created by the wars they started.  Jordan makes the most sense.

The problems with the above of of course are clear, but I would argue the cycle of religious/ethnic slaughter is worse. It is sad that this is probably the best way forward but I honesty don't find the other proposals realistic.

The two-state solution is only dead because the United States became Israel's enabler.

If the United States puts its foot down and demand that it happens, the two-state solution is suddenly viable.

Palestine rejected the two state solution in the 40s, and the 90s.

The idea that you think the US can just snaps its fingers and make this go away so how unserious you are in this topic

Why would Israel do anything when the US continues to reward Israel for its bad behavior?

...and $3 billion a year is one hell of a reward