America needs more immigrants

[Bismarck]

I care less about the total number and more about the method of selection and the expectations once arrived. I’m happy to welcome as many talented people as exist provided that they want to become Americans and not just live here (this means their children should be Americans, I don’t expect first generation to be fully Americanized but their kids should be) speak english, and are bringing a skill set that complements our economy rather than competing with American workers. Immigration is required for us to remain competitive but in the current condition of our country there are many challenges. The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

[Bismarck]

We should let in more immigrants from culturally similar countries, like those of Europe and certain groups of Latin America (those that are more developed and more Western). Over 2m immigrants is a good number.

Similar to who?  Similar to white people?

I agree with you that having different rules for different countries is wrong but are you questioning the idea that western countries are more similar to us culturally? Americans regardless of their ethnic background have a western culture. Black Americans are more similar to Europeans than Africans, the grandchild of a Chinese immigrant is just as western as the grandchild of an Italian immigrant. It isn’t like immigrants don’t assimilate into our culture (which is for and of everyone here  even if the people with whom it originated happened to have white skin and be primarily from the British isles)

[Bismarck]

I care less about the total number and more about the method of selection and the expectations once arrived. I’m happy to welcome as many talented people as exist provided that they want to become Americans and not just live here (this means their children should be Americans, I don’t expect first generation to be fully Americanized but their kids should be) speak english, and are bringing a skill set that complements our economy rather than competing with American workers. Immigration is required for us to remain competitive but in the current condition of our country there are many challenges. The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the hyphen meaning. When I say I am Asian American, I am not saying I have dual loyalty, I am an American first at the end of the day. However, I am emphasizing that it still is a part of my identity. It’s a part of the culture I was raised with and has influenced who I am today. I think a lot of Asian Americans feel similarly. Now you might be asking why not distinguish between nationalities instead of an arbitrary “Asian” category, and that’s fair honestly. In my ideal world, nobody would identify as “Asian” but instead their respective culture (Viet-American, Chinese-American, Hmong-American etc)
The reason that isn’t a thing currently is because of our society. From the beginning, Americans lumped East Asians into one box and more or less saw them as similar and treated them similarly. This combined with the anti-orientalism that persisted throughout the decades and even today exists on the individual level (but much less than before!) basically created a shared experience along with a shared outside perception. That created the idea of Asian American, and thing is, once you start it the cycle reinforces itself. Asian American becomes a term internalized by the group, that only further reinforces the idea of Asian American being a thing to the outside world, and it repeats until it’s a thing in itself.

The goal of removing the “race” boxes isn’t a bad one by any means for how we define race is subjective, but dismantling those labels simply is going to be a long and complex road. Ironically you agree with “SJWs” (Not a bad thing in this case!) in many ways, which shows that there is support for such a change that transcends polarization, but it still will be a long process. And ofc cultural hyphens will still exist as long as the minor cultural difference exists. Italian-American is still a thing (as it should be!) for good reason.

I think we agree more than you think. I have no problem with “Italian American” or “Chinese American” it’s the arbitrary boxes based on skin color that turn me off because those groupings are exclusionary rather than inclusive.

[Bismarck]

The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

Said racial politics reflect how multiracial WEIRD societies (e.g. Canada) work, and are partly rooted in the historic dynamic between ADOS and Caucasian Americans. I wouldn’t expect this to change even after Black America converges with the US as the whole on key socioeconomic indicators. 

Also Forumlurker (being mixed-race) seems to be using an inclusive definition of “Asian American”. Who’s to say he’s more or less Asian American than VP Harris?

Voted Option 3.

I don’t disagree about black Americans (or native Americans). Their historical circumstance does justify some separate identity within the American framework. With immigrants from Asia or Latin America however I don’t understand the impulse to put them into boxes the way historical tragedy has put black Americans in a box. For our country to work we need these new Americans and their descendants to see themselves as being in the same tribe as white and black Americans. Otherwise the “replacement theory” nutjobs are going to start appealing to more and more people.

[Bismarck]

The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

Said racial politics reflect how multiracial WEIRD societies (e.g. Canada) work, and are partly rooted in the historic dynamic between ADOS and Caucasian Americans. I wouldn’t expect this to change even after Black America converges with the US as the whole on key socioeconomic indicators.  

Also Forumlurker (being mixed-race) seems to be using an inclusive definition of “Asian American”. Who’s to say he’s more or less Asian American than VP Harris?

Voted Option 3.

I don’t disagree about black Americans (or native Americans). Their historical circumstance does justify some separate identity within the American framework. With immigrants from Asia or Latin America however I don’t understand the impulse to put them into boxes the way historical tragedy has put black Americans in a box. For our country to work we need these new Americans and their descendants to see themselves as being in the same tribe as white and black Americans. Otherwise the “replacement theory” nutjobs are going to start appealing to more and more people.

I see no contradiction between fostering a strong Latino or Asian American identity and members of those groups seeing themselves as part of the same “tribe” as white and black Americans. If anything, I would argue that the racialization of these identities is indicative of integration and assimilation into mainstream American society.

We see this as inter-ethnic Latino or Asian pairings (e.g. Mexican + Puerto Rican or Korean + Vietnamese) are more common among US-born Latinos and Asians than with foreign-borns, as they are less compelled to date and marry within the specific diaspora of their parents and grandparents who all grew up in the old country. Even those of us who date and marry our fellow co-ethnics have mixed race social circles, follow the same sports teams, and generally have the same formative experiences from school and work as everyone else.

This answer probably won’t assuage adherents of the “great replacement” theory, but it’s more intellectually honest than suggesting that we’ll “assimilate into whiteness” or that our group interests are inherently in conflict with those of White America.


I assume everyone’s rationale for voting for Option 5 has something to do with this: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22411236/immigration-census-population-growth

Voted for Option 3 to be a #moderatehero, but also because most citizens probably aren’t on board with Canada levels of immigration even if it makes the most economic sense.

I just disagree completely. The phrase “assimilate into whiteness” is what scares me. You’re taking mainstream American identity and racializing it. I don’t want hyphenated Americans to become “white” whatever that means. I want these 19th century categories placed on the dustbin of history where they belong. As long as Asians or Hispanics see mainstream American culture as “whiteness” it’s going to be something they don’t see themselves as part of. Meaning any gains they make come at the expense of white people rather than just being more new members of our big American family. isn’t the experience of the Irish and the Italians and the Jews a more appealing model for the new immigrants than the experience of the permanent other that black Americans have suffered through?