Which of these states do you consider Southern?

[RINO Tom]

Just WV and KY, unless you consider the Southwest as Southern.

For reference, the Census counts all but Missouri, the BEA counts only WV and KY.

If we're defining there to be only 4 regions though, I'd include WV, OK, and TX

I'd largely agree with this.  Missouri, like Illinois, has culturally Southern parts ... but the states - and those areas - simply aren't in *The South*.  Similarly, NOVA might not be culturally Southern, but it's just simply the South, period.

[RINO Tom]

To those who selected it: How is West Virginia southern?

Because it's literally part of the South?

[RINO Tom]

"Appalachia" really deserves it's own distinction from "The South".    The two really do have quite a few differences.

Where is the line between the two, though? Is Tennessee "Southern" or "Appalachian"? Should Pennsylvania be considered part of "Appalachia"?

If you use this distinction, the only state that would purely fit into Appalachia is West Virginia, but parts of Pennsylvania, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Georgia would fit as well.  But, by the time you move far enough down the mountain chain to Tennessee (look at places like Knoxville and Chattanooga), the culture is much more Southern than Appalachian.  Plus, over two-thirds of Tennessee lies outside the Appalachian Mountains (even Knoxville isn't really high up at all).  Where I am in Middle Tennessee, it is pretty flat, and parts of West Tennessee have more in common with Mississippi than East Tennessee.

With this in mind, unless you are getting very specific with your divisions "Appalachia" should just be considered part of "The South", IMO.

Amen.  Do people think regions can't be diverse in and of themselves?  The South, for some reason, seems to get more of this attention than other areas.  Nobody denies that both Ohio and North Dakota are Midwestern, for example, though they are clearly not exactly the same culturally.  Regions, however you chose to define them, should be static (once they're defined), and it's perfectly fine if they encompass several different types of people.

[RINO Tom]

^ Of course.  Southern Illinois is *The South* in most senses of the word, but the fact is, it's in Illinois, which isn't part of the South.  I know that sounds ridiculous, and if I were making a county map of where "The South" is, I would include parts of several states, but I think if you are doing a map of which WHOLE states fit into the South, you would have to include WV, as most measures include it.

[RINO Tom]

Only Texas.  I define the South as the states that seceded.

I get the logic behind this, but I imagine people in the Midwest or Northeast would be absolutely perplexed if you included WV in their regions...  Doesn't fit at all.

[RINO Tom]

Only Texas.  I define the South as the states that seceded.

I get the logic behind this, but I imagine people in the Midwest or Northeast would be absolutely perplexed if you included WV in their regions...  Doesn't fit at all.

I don't know what region WV fits into.

I'm originally from Kentucky, and I would consider that state more Midwestern than Southern.  Similar to Missouri.

Maybe I'm biased because I'm from Illinois and my sister goes to school in Indiana (and therefore has most of her closest friends from the state), but I think most people in Illinois and Indiana very much view Kentucky as the South ... heck, they view the southernmost parts of their states as effectively the South (just not officially "there" yet, haha).

[RINO Tom]

Side note: I'll make the bold prediction that Virginia will never be considered a Northeastern state.  Politics is very, very irrelevant to that, and I think the South will stay static like other regions have (North Dakota and Illinois don't have to be in different regions because they vote very differently, LOL) the further we get away from the civil rights movement.  The South will come to be viewed just like the West: a region that includes a LOT of very different states, not some separate kingdom of people who are all the same and love grits.  That's not to say cultural Southernness (God, that felt dumb to type, LOL) will go away, because it never will.

I think the only reason Delaware and Maryland ever became associated with the Northeast is that they were, in fact, north of DC, and people still subconsciously see DC as the divider between North and South dating back to the Civil War.

[RINO Tom]

I consider Maryland, DC and NOVA to be a transition zone, even though many say they're Northeastern because Northeastern = liberal and affluent. 

Why are more of these lists not made to be adjusted for cost of living?  That's how we'd judge literally anyone's affluence in real life.  In other words, a "higher median income" in the Northeast doesn't make it more affluent if it's met with a higher cost of living...

https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/2016/10/17/median-household-purchasing-power-for-the-50-states-and-dc

States like Nebraska and Utah are functionally more affluent than Massachusetts or Vermont, really, even if they have lower median incomes.