Gianforte's win is a sea change for US politics; Violence is OK now

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I have been saying for some time now that we (the left, or the miscellaneous anti-Trumpian forces) need to admit to ourselves that our opponents are willing, even eager, purveyors of violence. And that they have no respect for, nor belief in, democracy. That DOES NOT mean immediately resorting to violence ourselves. Even if there were not many other considerations  - and there are -  violent politics has something like half the success rate of non-violent protest.

It DOES mean being prepared for violence from our opponents. We need to understand that they are NOT a legitimate opposition with whom we may disagree with all involved staying inside the framework of democratic government that we've had. We need to understand the reality we're facing, and find the best responses to it. With 'the best' meaning those most effective at stopping them, while simultaneously promoting the values of freedom, justice and prosperity for everyone.



Also, it behooves us to remember the old words of wisdom: the first one to propose violence is always a Fedplant.

Everything you said could be said about people on the left as well.  Stop pretending that your side collectively has the moral high ground.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

All I'm asking is that the left condemns its extremists.  Groups like Antifa won't just bash the fash, they'll bash anyone who doesn't conform to their extremist ideology.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

All I'm asking is that the left condemns its extremists.  Groups like Antifa won't just bash the fash, they'll bash anyone who doesn't conform to their extremist ideology.

They already do, genius! When the anti-fascist types assault a bona fide neo-Nazi there is at least rigorous debate among left us whether that is remotely acceptable or not. Add to the fact that there is just a Teensy tiny bit of distinction between someone slugging somebody giving a public speech denying the Holocaust and espousing over white supremacy, versus 8th Congressional candidate Dash Dash and now Congressman dash dash slugging a reporter for one of the leading papers in the world for asking a tough question about Healthcare reform. I don't support the violence in either case, but to try to typify them as equal brands of extremism on both sides is laughable. White supremacist preaching Holocaust denial, reporter from internationally respected publication asking tough question on Healthcare. Random anarchist professional protesters, verses a congressman representing a state of a million people. Do you seriously not see any distinction here

And again, even then the left is it best split if not slightly opposed to even sucker-punching about Holocaust denial would be concentration camp guards. Heck, a significant number are opposed on Free Speech grounds to even non-violently shouting down extremist speech givers like Ann Coulter.

Stop with the what about and false comparisons people! Until the right gives up this delusion that it's merely fighting back against the real outside agitators on the left, we are going to see more and more and more of this. And like Sanchez, they will use any random Thug in a million who threw an egg at a trump campaign worker to justify curb-stomping and uppity left-wing reporter

Richard Spencer is a legitimate neo-Nazi.  Milo Yiannopoulos is not.  And neither is Chairman Sanchez.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Guys, the Antifa protesters and other people you see getting into fights on YouTube and other people you talk about in AltRight circlejerks are not Democratic party officials or Democratic party elected members of government. I have not voted for them. I am not one of them. I have not supported them. No Democratic electorate has voted for them. The Guardian and other mainstream journalistic outlets have not hired them. Nor have they endorsed them. Denounce them all you want but that does not change that PF should be ejected from Congress pronto.

College campuses have created an environment where Antifa and like-minded people are tolerated.  And today's college students are tomorrow's leaders.  In 20 years we will see people like the Bikelock guy in public office.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

All I'm asking is that the left condemns its extremists.  Groups like Antifa won't just bash the fash, they'll bash anyone who doesn't conform to their extremist ideology.

They already do, genius! When the anti-fascist types assault a bona fide neo-Nazi there is at least rigorous debate among left us whether that is remotely acceptable or not. Add to the fact that there is just a Teensy tiny bit of distinction between someone slugging somebody giving a public speech denying the Holocaust and espousing over white supremacy, versus 8th Congressional candidate Dash Dash and now Congressman dash dash slugging a reporter for one of the leading papers in the world for asking a tough question about Healthcare reform. I don't support the violence in either case, but to try to typify them as equal brands of extremism on both sides is laughable. White supremacist preaching Holocaust denial, reporter from internationally respected publication asking tough question on Healthcare. Random anarchist professional protesters, verses a congressman representing a state of a million people. Do you seriously not see any distinction here

And again, even then the left is it best split if not slightly opposed to even sucker-punching about Holocaust denial would be concentration camp guards. Heck, a significant number are opposed on Free Speech grounds to even non-violently shouting down extremist speech givers like Ann Coulter.

Stop with the what about and false comparisons people! Until the right gives up this delusion that it's merely fighting back against the real outside agitators on the left, we are going to see more and more and more of this. And like Sanchez, they will use any random Thug in a million who threw an egg at a trump campaign worker to justify curb-stomping and uppity left-wing reporter

Richard Spencer is a legitimate neo-Nazi.  Milo Yiannopoulos is not.  And neither is Chairman Sanchez.

So you would put Milo and a reporter from the guardian at the same level. Interesting. Again, I don't condone even at face value violence against either one. The real response here is Beats post directly above yours. Read it for an understanding of the real problem here.

I would not put Milo at the same level as a reporter.  I don't like Milo and I don't like Trump.  But if Milo is invited to speak somewhere, people should just deal with the fact that someone they disagree with is going to speak.  Some people couldn't handle that.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Guys, the Antifa protesters and other people you see getting into fights on YouTube and other people you talk about in AltRight circlejerks are not Democratic party officials or Democratic party elected members of government. I have not voted for them. I am not one of them. I have not supported them. No Democratic electorate has voted for them. The Guardian and other mainstream journalistic outlets have not hired them. Nor have they endorsed them. Denounce them all you want but that does not change that PF should be ejected from Congress pronto.

College campuses have created an environment where Antifa and like-minded people are tolerated.  And today's college students are tomorrow's leaders.  In 20 years we will see people like the Bikelock guy in public office.

oh come one...in the 60s/70s, they were blowing up college campuses and rioting on a near daily basis. Today it's just a bunch of hipsters swinging a bike lock that's so heavy that they fall over holding it.

Conservatives have been complaining about college campuses since Buckley wrote God and man at Yale in 1951.

I swear American politics is the same sh*t being complained about over and over

That's true, the protesters grew up.  And that might happen again.  But the '60s activists weren't demanding censorship, they were activists for freedom (though in a very flawed way).

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Guys, the Antifa protesters and other people you see getting into fights on YouTube and other people you talk about in AltRight circlejerks are not Democratic party officials or Democratic party elected members of government. I have not voted for them. I am not one of them. I have not supported them. No Democratic electorate has voted for them. The Guardian and other mainstream journalistic outlets have not hired them. Nor have they endorsed them. Denounce them all you want but that does not change that PF should be ejected from Congress pronto.

College campuses have created an environment where Antifa and like-minded people are tolerated.  And today's college students are tomorrow's leaders.  In 20 years we will see people like the Bikelock guy in public office.

oh come one...in the 60s/70s, they were blowing up college campuses and rioting on a near daily basis. Today it's just a bunch of hipsters swinging a bike lock that's so heavy that they fall over holding it.

Conservatives have been complaining about college campuses since Buckley wrote God and man at Yale in 1951.

I swear American politics is the same sh*t being complained about over and over

That's true, the protesters grew up.  And that might happen again.  But the '60s activists weren't demanding censorship, they were activists for freedom (though in a very flawed way).

It is funny that the purveyors of National Lampoons are now the voices saying "you can't say that" or "you can't do that."

Yeah, and then there's the people advocating for resegregation.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Guys, the Antifa protesters and other people you see getting into fights on YouTube and other people you talk about in AltRight circlejerks are not Democratic party officials or Democratic party elected members of government. I have not voted for them. I am not one of them. I have not supported them. No Democratic electorate has voted for them. The Guardian and other mainstream journalistic outlets have not hired them. Nor have they endorsed them. Denounce them all you want but that does not change that PF should be ejected from Congress pronto.

College campuses have created an environment where Antifa and like-minded people are tolerated.  And today's college students are tomorrow's leaders.  In 20 years we will see people like the Bikelock guy in public office.

oh come one...in the 60s/70s, they were blowing up college campuses and rioting on a near daily basis. Today it's just a bunch of hipsters swinging a bike lock that's so heavy that they fall over holding it.

Conservatives have been complaining about college campuses since Buckley wrote God and man at Yale in 1951.

I swear American politics is the same sh*t being complained about over and over

That's true, the protesters grew up.  And that might happen again.  But the '60s activists weren't demanding censorship, they were activists for freedom (though in a very flawed way).

Not true...in 1967, there was a 300 student riot to prevent Dow Jones from speaking or recruiting at U of W due to the fact they made Napalm for the Vietnam War. There are other examples like Nixon being relentlessly booed at Oxford Union.

Like I said: just the same sh*t over and over

In general the protesters of the '60s were demonstrating for freedom.  Today they police language, demand resegregation, talk about collective guilt, and want a safe space where they never have to hear a dissenting view.  And their professors by and large don't confront them and often support them.  Professors who confront the student mob are harassed.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/hunting-of-bret-weinstein-evergreen-state/

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I heard the exact same stuff about my college when I was a democrat in the early 90s. Almost to a tee. Am I African studies course my senior year I argued with the professor about afrocentrism being a fundamentally flawed paradigm like eurocentrism. I argued vociferous Lee with several students about it.

Did I get shunned for speaking my mind against the broadly held alternative you? No, I became friends with a lot of these students. Did the professor tisk tisk me and make me feel like an ass? No, he gave me an A and wrote a recommendation for me to law school.

Good for you.  But many professors today would act differently.  Today, race is considered supremely important by politically active college students.  Race is inserted into every discussion.

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I've seen no evidence for that.  Conservatives are tired of being labeled racist and sexist for no reason.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I heard the exact same stuff about my college when I was a democrat in the early 90s. Almost to a tee. Am I African studies course my senior year I argued with the professor about afrocentrism being a fundamentally flawed paradigm like eurocentrism. I argued vociferous Lee with several students about it.

Did I get shunned for speaking my mind against the broadly held alternative you? No, I became friends with a lot of these students. Did the professor tisk tisk me and make me feel like an ass? No, he gave me an A and wrote a recommendation for me to law school.

Good for you.  But many professors today would act differently.  Today, race is considered supremely important by politically active college students.  Race is inserted into every discussion.

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I've seen no evidence for that.  Conservatives are tired of being labeled racist and sexist for no reason.

Horse manure. I have friends who are college students and their recounting of situations are no different. Lord knows the whining of conservatives is literally word for word identical. I am guaranteeing you having been a college student then and more than a little familiar about what goes on in campuses today that there is no damn difference.

The conservatives want to stop being thought of his racist and sexist they should stop supporting any Conservative candidate who says racist and sexist things or holds racist or sexist policies. There are a few left I think.

This type of thing started before Trump announced he would run.  College students were fed toxic ideas before 2015.  The idea that not wanting companies to be forced to pay for birth control is sexist and the idea that opposing affirmative action is racist are not conducive to civil debate.

Anti-Trump Republicans are still called these things.