JCP Convention, December 2010 (endorsements posted)

[Јas]

I stand with Fritz and PS on this issue, and not in order to "save" anyone. I don't really see the point to set such dangerous precedent (expelling a sitting Senator without a vote) with only two weeks left.

It wouldn't be setting a precedent to declare the vacancy; rather, it would be setting a new precedent not to declare the vacancy.

[Јas]

It happened once, with DWTL.  That was perhaps done improperly.

Wasn't he voted out by the Senate ?

No, declaration of vacancy.
Which raised no complaint from anyone, including DWTL himself when he returned.

[Јas]

It happened once, with DWTL.  That was perhaps done improperly.

Wasn't he voted out by the Senate ?

No, declaration of vacancy.
Which raised no complaint from anyone, including DWTL himself when he returned.

For reference sake:
The amendment to the OSPR incorporating the vacancy rule. One may note it's content was largely adopted on advice of then Chief Justice TCash. The amendment was approved by Senators across all parties, including the now Associate Justice Ebowed.

The declaration of vacancy thread re: DWTL. As may be noted the legality of the declaration was not questioned by any person of any party, including DWTL on his return.

The vacancy having been noted to the Secretary of Forum Affairs, it led to a special election won by the then chief legal advisor to the executive, Attorney General Marokai Blue.

The first suggestion that the method may not be legally sound was not raised until 3 and a half years after its adoption, when Bacon King's position was brought into question.

[Јas]

Well, perhaps the Senate should formally expel him just to be cautious...

Are you going to begin that process? I haven't the slightest idea how it is to occur and there is no mention of it in the OSPR. The only thing I have seen so far is the 2/3rd's requirement in Article 1 of the Constitution.

someone puts forward a motion to expel, someone seconds it, then you have a big ol' vote on the matter, and then life goes on

Where is the proper place for this motion to be offered?

An expulsion motion would normally be conducted in its own thread.

I'd also say though that if the PPT is not willing to execute the Senate's stated rules, he should either offer his resignation, or, at the very least, make a motion to change the rules he finds objectionable.

[Јas]

I tried to fix this problem via constitutional amendment, the Senate voted it down and the nay voters have made no attempt to repeal the OSPR clause dealing with vacancies. No one here is neglecting their duties Jas, so I haven't the slightest idea what the  you are talking about.

I'm not accusing you of neglecting your duties, as of yet. (I'm presuming here that you have notified the appropriate powers over the vacancy of Barnes's seat.)

I do believe though that you would be disregarding Senate rules should you purport to call a vote to expel a 'Senator' who per the OSPR is no longer in office.

[Јas]

No I didn't inform the SoFE directly at the time because a Special election was judged unnecessary due to the closeness of the election and thus a pointless endeavour, untill now with the amendment to the Proportional Representation act. Had this question about the legitimacy of the vacancy clause not been left open like this, I would have posted something similar to what I did for Libertas, at the time. However, the OSPR says I "....Shall further notify the SoFA (an office no longer existing) or Regional Governor, as appropriate, of the vacancy". It doesn't say where the notification must occur or how, and thus my thread alerting that Barnes exceeding the 21 days should suffice under that as "notification". 

I would say that a decision as to the holding of the election is not yours to make - but for the DoFE.

The rules give you the duty simply of notifying such vacancies as may occur to the appropriate authorities (and indeed, the SoFA no longer exists in that form, but it has a successor office that one can reasonably infer should be notified instead).

I don't plan to motion to expell Barnes. If bgwah or someone in the JCP wants to introduce the motion, they can do so. There is noting in the OSPR preventing an expulsion vote from occuring for no reason either, is there? I will just delay direct notification till it is finished. 

Technically there's nothing in the OSPR about expulsion votes at all.

However to hold an expulsion vote concerning someone who, per the Senate rules, isn't a Senator would seem to represent a fairly clear disregard for those same Senate rules.