Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[jojoju1998]

I would be the last person to support a War, and I hope the diplomats can figure out a solution.

That being said, The only person asking for a War is Putin. Not Biden. Not anyone else. But putin.

[jojoju1998]

I think Pope Francis is the best person to mediate.

[jojoju1998]

I think Pope Francis is the best person to mediate.

There are very few Catholics in either of these countries though

Yeah, I feel like Pope John Paul II would have been a better fit to mediate since at least he was from Eastern Europe. Maybe in the 12th Century Popes were useful for mediation of international conflicts, but not today.

1. John Paul II mediated a dispute between Argentina and Chile in the 1980s, so this isn't out of the picture.

2. Ukraine apparently wants Pope Francis to intervene, like now. https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-looks-pope-francis-help-end-conflict-russia-report-1679024

Although there are not that many catholics in either country, Pope Francis is seen as the most trusted moral leader  in Ukraine.

[jojoju1998]

I think Pope Francis is the best person to mediate.

There are very few Catholics in either of these countries though

Yeah, I feel like Pope John Paul II would have been a better fit to mediate since at least he was from Eastern Europe. Maybe in the 12th Century Popes were useful for mediation of international conflicts, but not today.

1. John Paul II mediated a dispute between Argentina and Chile in the 1980s, so this isn't out of the picture.

2. Ukraine apparently wants Pope Francis to intervene, like now. https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-looks-pope-francis-help-end-conflict-russia-report-1679024

Although there are not that many catholics in either country, Pope Francis is seen as the most trusted moral leader  in Ukraine.

It makes more sense between Two heavily catholic countries like Argentina and Chile

Also, there is this to consider. https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/russian-roulette-the-popes-ecumenical

The Catholic Church's relationship with the Russian Orthodox Church which is seen as an extension of the Russian State. In fact, the Ukranian/Russian Conflict has split the Orthodox church in Ukraine in half.

[jojoju1998]

https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1496143838402035712

Good! This and the responses by both the US and EU are much more severe than they were in 2014. Especially how fast both sides have reacted. You just can be glad Biden is the president now, as it would not have been possible with the clown the preceded him.

What's also striking is that China has not voiced the usual support for Russia this time around. At the Munich Security Conference, the Chinese foreign minister even said something like an invasion was a violation of international rule (of course, the Chinese regime has an interest not to set any kind of precedent for separatist movements in Western parts of China).

It's because Ukraine and China have a very productive economic partnership, they don't want to jeopardize chinese investments in Ukraine.

In fact, Ukraine depends heavily on Chinese investments.

[jojoju1998]

And we have an update on who’s supporting Russia! To the surprise of exactly no one, in addition to Syria, Belarus, Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela have come out in support of Russia. Gee, there’s a shining example of stalwart anti-imperialist states opposed to violations of national sovereignty. And they’re such paragons of human rights as well! Truly they’re exactly the type of company one should keep for those champions of revolution worldwide.

China has stayed mute.

So is Vietnam.

[jojoju1998]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXC-jJhFaUI


I just have to share this...

[jojoju1998]

It could. I hope it doesn.t

[jojoju1998]

Am i allowed to laugh at the Conservatives who said war was not going to happen and the Far Leftists who say that the US and NATO are being the agresssors here ?

[jojoju1998]

Also suppose Russia conducts a full-fledged invasion. What's their plan a month from now when tens of thousands are dead, there's no end in sight to a Ukrainian insurgency, inflation increases as it always does with war, and there's thousands of people protesting outside the Kremlin?

1) They will use lots of artillery and bombs against any insurgency. If there is resistance in a city, they will bombard it until resistance stops. It won't be like American counter-insurgency efforts where they give fairly high priority to avoiding civilian casualties.

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1496614730064183298
2) There won't be people protesting outside the Kremlin because anyone who tries will get immediately arrested before they can even start.



Moscow police arrest lone anti-war protesters within minutes as Russia's propaganda machine ramps up

Muted protests in stark contrast to the Russian public response when the Kremlin annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014

Russian police have arrested several people who dared to publicly protest Moscow’s military escalation in Ukraine, bundling demonstrators in vans for holding up signs reading “No to War”.

While there is little or no public enthusiasm in Russia for active conflict with its neighbour, protests against a potential war have been muted after years of Kremlin crackdown on dissent. 

Wouldn't most (or at least a significant amount) Ukrainians choose death over Russian rule?
Urban warfare means high Russian casualties. Ukraine doesn't need to "win", they just need to up the body count to where enough Russian moms/wives get sick of seeing their boys come home in caskets.

 Read the subtext in the article you linked. There isn't the same fervor when they took Crimea in 2014. Young people are already lukewarm on the administration, fighting for the fantasies of septuagenarian elites looking to relive the USSR glory days they weren't alive for can't help much on that front. The Kremlin can't disappear them all. Mark my words, a botched invasion is one of the very few things which can jeopardize Putin's grip on power.

That's why I always believed, Putin wouldn't attack. It will likely be his end. But today's news are scary.

If Putin was that sane, he would focus on getting the Russian economy back to health.

[jojoju1998]

We need to fight this. It won’t stop with Ukraine.

If you're ready to put on a helmet and take up an AK, go right ahead, but no sane Western power would risk sending boots on the ground to start WW3.

If he does go in, western troops will probably roll up en masse to the Baltics / Eastern Europe anyway, preventing further land grabs.

Isn't it the insane thing to do on the part of western nations to not intervene? Wouldn't the same thing be to defend the Ukrainians and their territorial sovereignty just as we claim? If we won't defend Ukrainian sovereignty like we say we support, then what is the word of a western nation worth?

I know what it isn't worth:

A WW3 with a country holding the #1 nuclear stockpile.

And if Putin were to invade Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, would there not be people trying to worm out of NATO's Article 5 commitments using that same argument?

Well then we're screwed in that case.

And what's not say other countries like Iran, China, North Korea, will take advantage and start to do crazy stuff on their own ?

[jojoju1998]

Please please pray for the Innocent Children of Ukraine.

They should not have to deal with and experience this sh!t show.

[jojoju1998]

THE KIDS DAMN IT. NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE KIDS ! THOSE INNOCENT CHILDREN WHO GET CAUGHT UP IN  A MAD MAN'S QUEST FOR POWER.

[jojoju1998]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1496709533661646850

OK, this is bad, if true (needs confirmation). Russia may be attacking Moldova also, not just Ukraine.

I saw a report of this 5-10 minutes ago but assumed it must be a mistake, but this is 2nd report I saw.

If it is true, WHAT THE HELL ?? MOLDOVA ??

[jojoju1998]

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1496849908279787524
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1496849053824471041

If they establish a safe landing zone and the AA's already been neutralized, it's GG for Kyiv

Also really surprised with CNN's quality coverage, a big step up from their usual Corona fearmongering

Yeah, CNN easily was absolutely the best during this.

CNN international is not the same as CNN America.

[jojoju1998]

My Marine Corps Reserve Cousin says his unit " might " be deployed to Europe for " something ".

[jojoju1998]

By the way, Ukranian Americans, as well as Vietnamese Americans are some of the most republican, Conservative, voting blocks in America.


They hate Communism. They hate the Soviet Union. THEY ACTUALLY FLED THE SOVIET UNION. Many of them.

And Putin is nothing more than a Joseph Stalin Wannabe.

[jojoju1998]

Apparently China is Ukraine’s largest investor. Second largest export partner. And largest import partner.


China doesn’t care what happens to Russia or Ukraine. Only their bottom line. Their Bottom line will be hurt if Putin continues his schemes.

And if China openly backs Russia, the Western world will cut off acccess For Chinese businessmen.

[jojoju1998]

Apparently China is Ukraine’s largest investor. Second largest export partner. And largest import partner.


China doesn’t care what happens to Russia or Ukraine. Only their bottom line. Their Bottom line will be hurt if Putin continues his schemes.

And if China openly backs Russia, the Western world will cut off acccess For Chinese businessmen.

Russia and China have become important partners. They committed to a "no limits partnership" long ago. They have similar revanchist interests (Ukraine, Taiwan).

While true, it is interesting how tepid Chinese support has been so far.

They saw the same announcements from Putin as we have, they know he's a bit unhinged. China is never keen on loose cannons dictating its foreign policy.

China and Ukraine have had a productive economic partnership for almost 30 years. In fact, I would dare say that China is the bigger economic influence than Russia.  


China’s not going to risk their investments in Ukraine just so that Russia is happy.

[jojoju1998]

Unconfirmed : But it seems as if Putin wants a military coup in Ukraine.

[jojoju1998]

What is Putin's long-term plan, right now? Does anyone have anything but a vague idea? He's pointed out what he doesn't like about the status quo, but what does he intend to do with Ukraine? Does Putin himself even know yet?

He wants to turn Ukraine into a Vassal State, loyal to him and " Mother Russia ".

It's an extremely ideological bent.

[jojoju1998]

If Ukraine somehow is spared, it will be in spite of, and not because of Biden and NATO.

 Disagree. The material and intelligence support and support the US and nato has provided has been incalculable.  Is the sanctions less so, but still a factor.

We could have done more-looking at you Italy and Belgium refusing to wean yourself off of Russian produce luxury goods and diamonds for Pete's sake-but NATO and Biden  Did pretty much all they could hear with only some missteps.

Biden carved massive energy exceptions into his own sanctions, which he says he’ll review “in a month or so” (i.e. when he hopes there will be less political pressure to maintain them or impose more). His supply of military aid has also been incredibly lacking, especially when it comes to AA.

His response is less pathetic than some European leaders’, but still very weak.

Exxon helps ship Russian Oil. American investment companies invest in Ukraine, Russia,

Hell even the California Pensions Systems have investments in Russia. We're too tied up.

[jojoju1998]

Guys. I know prayers don't help, but in this case, we might just see the fall of a country and so Pray for the Children. They don't deserve this evil. Putin is evil, and I hope he rots in hell. Pray for the Brave Ukranian soldiers, and civilians, they have much more courage than I do.

As a child of refugees who fled from a country that also fell, I know the costs of tyranny, dictatorship. It just breeds misery. Human resentment. Fear. Trauma. Pain.

I don't know what the US will do or can do, if and when Ukraine falls, but... sigh.

[jojoju1998]

Why do I feel as if; Putin is holding back ?

Only 190,000 troops ?

[jojoju1998]

Serbia and India are hardly alone in failing to condemn the Russian invasion:

Israel fails to sign onto US text condemning Russia at UNSC

You know, Israel should ask itself, who is allied with Iran, and  Hezbollah, Spoliler alert, it's Russia.