MA-SEN Megathread: Senator Markey wins

[GoTfan]

If I remember correctly, Kennedy voted against a measure to restrcit the PATRIOT Act, which says volumes about his stance on civil liberties.

[GoTfan]

Kennedy voted against restricting the PATRIOT Act, which should logically end the matter.

Furthermore, I don't understand how you can be a Kennedy and be opposed to universal healthcare.

[GoTfan]

Go Markey! As said before, there is no need to replace him. Kennedy is only running because he thinks his last name basically entitles to the seat.

He’s running because Markey is a non-existent seat warmer. Good man but not great Senator.

If my state is as great as we think it is - it’ll vote Kennedy. It’s way closer than it should be though

Kennedy literally said there'smore to being a Senator than the bills you file or the votes you record.

That is literally a Senator's job description.

[GoTfan]

We're going in circles on this unfortunately. Thank you @BruceJoel for the amazing analysis.

At least the majority of us agree that Markey is the man

If he loses, I want Biden to make him EPA Administrator or Energy Secretary. Lifelong environmental champion should qualify him for either.

[GoTfan]

Could Kennedy be anymore transparent that he's just using the Senate seat as a launchpad in 2024?

[GoTfan]

Hang on, hang on. A Kennedy is decrying something as white, well-off and well-educated?

A F***ING KENNEDY IS DECRYING SOMEONE ELSE AS WHITE, WELL-OFF AND WELL-EDUCATED?!

HOW STUPID CAN A PERSON BE?!?!

[GoTfan]

To me, the most exciting thing about this race is that if Kennedy loses, his career is basically over. The thought of that just makes me happy.

It would also end more than seventy years of virtually uninterrupted Kennedy service in the United States Congress, as a member of that family has served in either the House or the Senate since 1947 (with the exception of the years 2011-2013). My hope is that this century will put an end to political dynasties of this nature. I don't want any more Kennedys, Bushes, or Clintons. And hopefully, we won't get any more Trumps either after this one leaves office.

So people have used the logic that someone shouldn’t win based on their last name but aren’t you suggesting someone should lose purely based on their last name? So if someone wants to make a difference and run for office they should be disqualified because they had a relative that did so? That’s BS.

I don’t look at the Kennedy’s and Bush the same way I think of Clinton (at least Hillary) and the Trumps. The Kennedy’s and Bushs both had members of the family who distinguishedly served the nations military in brave combat rolls. I look at Hillary and the Trumps as people in it for the wrong reasons.

Every generarion of mt family has been in the military going back to the Napoleonic Wars.

Do I get a free Senate seat?

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/WinWithJMC/status/1289210158946508802

Latest MA-Sen Poll from JMC Analytics:

Markey - 40
Kennedy - 36
Undecided - 24

Leans among undecideds:

Markey - 44
Kennedy - 41
Pure undecided - 16

Markey is leading in Middlesex, Essex, Boston proper, and narrowly in Plymouth (surprisingly), while Kennedy is leading in Norfolk, SE Mass, and even slightly in Western Mass

You love to see it.

[GoTfan]

JKIII big mistake was not taking the why are you running thing head on

He should be saying:

“Yes I’m a Kennedy. I’m proud my grandfather is Robert Lennedy. I’m proud my great uncle is President John F Kennedy. I’m proud of how much my family has accomplished in the realm of public service. I’m not shying from that. Do I think that means this seat is my birth right? Absolutely not. It belongs to the people and I have to earn that vote on my own not based on who I’m related too. I run because while I might agree with many same policies as Ed Markey, his execution and effort has left a lot to be desired. I have the motivation and the dedication to be in this state not just when an election rolls around”

Can you please explain what’s lacking in his “effort” and “execution”?

Yeah. You're talking about a guy who's been leading the charge of the environment since the day he entered Congress and co-wrote the GND. Regardless of what you think of his stances, you cannot say he lacks effort.

[GoTfan]

Pro-Kennedy PAC to launch ad barrage:

https://twitter.com/vgmac/status/1290114126388375552

Am I alone in thinking that this isn't exactly a good sign for Kennedy?

[GoTfan]

Let's go Joe Ed

[GoTfan]

Next they just need to send in FDR Jnr....

Jokes aside this race is a fascinating example of the importance that national campaign groups give you over random hill endorsements.

The Roosevelts at least had the smarts to stick to low-profile lives in banking or law or whatever after Eleanor died. They knew they couldn't match FDR or TR's stature.

Yeah like most members of the Kennedy's generation before this they had short terms in the House & quit- although my post was a snarky reference to when the Kenendy's sent Fdr Jnr to West Virginia to lie about Humphrey's war record.

 Oh, didn't get that reference. I never knew FDR Jr. was involved in that West Virginia primary (which I did know was dirty and they throw the book at HHH there)

Oh he definitely was.

The Kennedys, and especially RFK, were dirty campaigners. Hell, those pamphlets supposedly released about a Catholic President? There's a pretty good chance that the Kennedy campaign itself printed them.

[GoTfan]

https://polsci.umass.edu/sites/default/files/SenatePrimaryAug2020Toplines8-12.pdf

Lean Markey

He’s run a great campaign

According to the "Words most associated" bit, Kennedy is an entitled, young, ambitious opportunist.

That is the most accurate summary of him ever.

[GoTfan]

Now, since Warren is certainly going for Cabinet, Pressley will get the seat, not Kennedy

Isn’t Pressley the reason why Kennedy ran against Markey in the first place?

I'm inclined to tnink so. Running against Pressley will be very, very difficult for Kennedy if he loses here and decides to dive at Warren's seat.

[GoTfan]

Now, since Warren is certainly going for Cabinet, Pressley will get the seat, not Kennedy

Isn’t Pressley the reason why Kennedy ran against Markey in the first place?

I'm inclined to tnink so. Running against Pressley will be very, very difficult for Kennedy if he loses here and decides to dive at Warren's seat.

Yeah, the fact that it would've been difficult in any event given her popularity is probably the reason he decided to go now for Markey, whom he probably (& seemingly wrongly) assumed would be easier to beat than Pressley.

It's incredible to think we live in a world where a Kennedy could lose two Senate races.

[GoTfan]

If you're going to carry on about Markey not being an actual progressive, then can we perhaps talk about how Kennedy ia running to Markey's right on the environment? The literal writer of the GND. Can't be much more of a progressive on the environment than that.

Also, you don't get to say you're losing intelligence whenever you hear someone praise Markey because you're referring to voters in your own state as stupid and a joke because they haven't fallen for the Kennedy bollocks again.

You make a point about service and now much his family has given to the country. Yeah, okay, let me tell you about a guy named Hubert Humphrey, who was probably the guy most responsible for dragging the Democratic Party kicking and screaming to the left on civil rights, and then got rolled by a Kennedy machine that courted southern segregationists. Or a man named Lyndon Johnson, who actually managed to get both the CRA and VRA passed while JFK sat on his hands, not to manage the fustercluck with James Meredith.

No politician is completely shiny. Hell, no person is. Yet to say that the Kennedys are above that is the height of stupidity.

[GoTfan]

If you're going to carry on about Markey not being an actual progressive, then can we perhaps talk about how Kennedy ia running to Markey's right on the environment? The literal writer of the GND. Can't be much more of a progressive on the environment than that.

Also, you don't get to say you're losing intelligence whenever you hear someone praise Markey because you're referring to voters in your own state as stupid and a joke because they haven't fallen for the Kennedy bollocks again.

You make a point about service and now much his family has given to the country. Yeah, okay, let me tell you about a guy named Hubert Humphrey, who was probably the guy most responsible for dragging the Democratic Party kicking and screaming to the left on civil rights, and then got rolled by a Kennedy machine that courted southern segregationists. Or a man named Lyndon Johnson, who actually managed to get both the CRA and VRA passed while JFK sat on his hands, not to manage the fustercluck with James Meredith.

No politician is completely shiny. Hell, no person is. Yet to say that the Kennedys are above that is the height of stupidity.

Your assessment of the Kennedy’s on the race issue is laughable.

First, JFK made the decision to reach out to MLK’s wife when Nixon refused because of political ramifications.

In the early days of the administration there was some apathy on civil rights because JFK wanted his agenda passed but after tons of upheaval and disgusting acts of prejudice - JFK insisted on discussing the matter on national television and effectively putting the South in play for 64. Bobby took up the matter at justice in a way that had never been done before. There’s a reason John Lewis was such a staunch supporter of the Kennedy’s.

Your point about LBJ passing CRA and VRA while JFK sat on his hands is so ridiculous - JFK was dead. From the time sufficient momentum built up he was given a matter of months to pass such things. LBJ was able to pass it in such a short time due to the fact he used JFK’s memory to impose pressure on those who who didn’t want to vote for it.

No politician is perfect but it’s hard to get much better than John F Kennedy.

So you deny that they sought the support of southern segregationists in the 1960 election?

And it is far from laughable mate. Larry Tye's excellent book goes into more detail about it.

[GoTfan]

GMA once again, as always, is either missing the point on purpose or genuinely doesn't understand how someone can like Ed Markey.

I don't support Markey because he's on good terms with AOC (certainly doesn't hurt my opinion of him though). I support him because he's one of the biggest net neutrality fighters in Congress. I support him because he also wants to see single-payer healthcare established and cosponsored the Medicare For All Act. I support him because he's one of the strongest environmental warriors in Congress, authoring the Green New Deal and the Climate Security Act and is a strong opponent of the Dakota Access Pipeline.

If Kennedy had adopted those positions, then I would have been inclined to hear him out. Unlike a lot of other progressives, I don't particularly care if someone is supporting our ideas on principle or in a play for votes. Either way, you get the same result.

Instead, the only argument he's managed to articulate is "I'm young, he's old." In my opinion, not really that good an argument. As brucejoel points out, AOC, Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush didn't run on that alone. They had genuine differences with the incumbent, whther it was policy or something else. If Kennedy has another reason for running other than the youth arugment or the "I'm a Kennedy" argument, then I haven't heard it.

The other thing that really rubs me the wrong way is the blatant opportunism. It's plain for everyone that he only wants the seat so he can run in 2024. Not just that, but it's also obvious that he thinks Warren would be too hard to beat in a primary, so he decided to go for the on-paper weaker opponent; same goes for him avoiding a primary with Pressley, who is looking more and more like Warren's successor each day.

The meltdown over the Boston Globe endorsement sealed the deal for me. The Kennedys are the poster children for white, well-off and well-educated, so that just proves that not only is he a terrible candidate, he also lacks basic self-awareness.

But hey, it's easier to say "Haha stupid lefties" than actually acknowledge any of these points. Maybe GMA should take a moment and consider that arch-progressives like myself and arch-moderates like AndriyValeriovich, who have absolutely nothing in common, both support Markey.

[GoTfan]

The Morse internal today had Markey up 43-36 in MA-01, the Richard Neal internal from a couple months ago (according to Zaybay) had Kennedy up 20 points in the district.

Obviously small scale internals aren't the most accurate but that is hard to ignore.

That's consistent with statewide polling that had Kennedy up by 5-10 a few months ago & Markey up by 15 last week.

It seems like you were right. The more people see of Kennedy, the less they like him.

[GoTfan]

I'm tired of people acting like Kennedy is only running on his name.  He's been in Congress for eight years.  Meanwhile everyone on this thread takes it as a given that Ayanna Pressley will run for Congress.  Even if she waits until 2026 for it, she'll have the same resume as JKIII has today.

Honestly I would probably be supporting Markey (or more realistically, not care about the race at all) if it were 2014 Markey running his 2014 campaign.  His alliance with the extremists, and their bizarre beatification of St. Markey, is one of the most insultingly stupid things happening in politics this year, and I can't help but feel that a lot of the left-wing obsession with this race is motivated by the opportunity to gleefully sh-t on a sacred cow of the mainstream Democratic Party, the Kennedy brand.

I'll address sawx's post if people want but I think the holes are pretty glaring and obvious.  Don't want to turn this thread into an everyone-vs-GMA fight.

More than anything else I just think it's a shame that the left couldn't support Markey without destroying JKIII.  They're obsessed with character assassination and negative campaigning.  JKIII could have been a great young leader in the party (that's why he was given the SOTU Response), but now he'll never be able to do anything without ten thousand leftists attacking him with these finely-honed talking points.  They don't have any legitimate reason to hate JKIII.

You didn't bother reading mine or brucejoel's posts, did you?

[GoTfan]

Kennedy was a overwhelming favorite (like a Republican in Alabama favorite)

But a campaign that simply was too nice and refused to call out Markey for what he is until it’s too late will likely be the downfall as Markey as caught up and since passed him.

With that being said the last week has been momentum for Joe all the way - so maybe he’s made it close again.

I think this was Kennedy’s race to lose and he squandered it. It’s not over but it’s a tough up hill climb for him

There's a difference between being too nice and just being bad.

This is the latter.

[GoTfan]

This guy could sell you guys ocean front property in Kansas. My god

Alright, into the Oremine you go.

[GoTfan]

Do voters really care about political opportunism out of everything they've seen these past few years? I feel like that's not going to be a setback for Kennedy. Who are Biden primary voters going to support? (actually asking lol)... I feel like most of the people who are tuned out don't pay any attention to this back and forth. From the outside, it just looks like Markey dissing the Kennedys in a douchy way imo

Is Markey going to get hurt with turnout if universities are not at full capacity, people-wise?

I doubt it. He’s done a good job (well his highly talented staff has) of getting the young early
Vote out. It’s just a matter of the Kennedy people getting there people out.

Unfortunately the Biden comparison doesn’t hold because Biden got a plurality not a majority.

Where in most states Biden + Bloomberg + Amy was way more than Bernie + Warren, in Massachusetts it was different. So Joe would have to symphon off some of those voters which is possible because anyone over the age of 40 (and especially over the age of 65) has a very postive opinion of the Kennedy’s and knows the greatness of the name and just how much they’ve actually gotten done for the people.

So it’s unique in that most young people are for the old guy and most old people are for the young guy.

It’s sad most people can’t get past the “he’s entitled!” bullsh**t because if they looked at how these two have conducted themselves - the effort they’ve put forth into doing the job of being in Congress. It wouldn’t be close. At all.

Markey is the author of the Green New Deal. That alone blows Kennedy out of the water.

Furthermore, the poll posted a few pages back; the words most assocated bit?

Markey: Old, progressive, experienced

Kennedy: Entitled, young, opportunist.

It is obvious to everyone but you that Kennedy has been unable to answer even basic questions. If he really thought he could be a Senator, he wouldn't have wasted time and would have run against Warren two years ago, or would wait for one of the two incumbents to retire and run against Pressley. Instead, he opted for the cowardly, opportunistic route of challenging Markey and it has completely blown up in his face.

[GoTfan]

The Kennedys know exactly what they're doing. "Mean tweets" is a dogwhistle for "he's too far left".

I support Markey as I've said but I'm unhappy that this bad behavior from certain extremely online people during the primary is carrying over to new campaigns. Ugh.

I happen to disagree. If we want to talk about more concrete hypocrisy and double standards, progressives are the only ones who have been held accountable for their supporters. We can debate about whether Pelosi's legitimately defending her friendships with the Kennedy family or not. What we can't debate is that the Joe Kennedys of the world won't hold their allies accountable for the same thing.

I actually thought that they'd pull the same line of attack with other supporters. There's always going to be a "dirtbag progressive" stereotype with any candidate that aligns with leftist ideas like MFA and the GND. There were rumblings of the Bro Playbook being used against Warren by the KHive, but I knew there would be a high-profile use of the same playbook at some point. I just didn't expect hard proof to come this soon.

If you look hard enough, you could find Kennedy supporters making toxic tweets as well. Or, in general, more establishment-leaning progressives. I've actually documented many of the latter here. To keep it short, Douglas Emhoff is friends with a KHive fan who doxed Kamala's enemies on Twitter in her name (and got kicked off DailyKos/DU for being explicitly anti-Semitic). Hillary Clinton sent a thank-you letter to an avowed anti-Semite, and Joy Reid followed someone who made explicit death threats to Bernie.

None of these political figures received any scrutiny for directly assocating with toxic figures in the establishment. If Some Dude with 100 followers makes an explicit death threat towards Kennedy, "real life isn't Twitter" gets thrown out the window and it becomes local news.

There's toxicity everywhere in every major political race - especially with the rise of social media. Instead of getting your news from one of a few options, you can tailor your feed however you like. A left-winger can set up their feed to get their "news" from Virgil Texas the same way that a KHiver can get theirs from Bravenak. Time and time again, only one side is expected to condemn their worst supporters - no matter how insignificant they are.

That's why I believe what I believe, and that's why I don't trust him to lead on progressive issues as much as Markey or even Warren.

You sound as tone deaf as the Bernie people who were vile in the presidential primary. Oh wait... you supported Bernie. So I guess this makes sense

Wow, so you're just never gonna stop producing material for the Oremine, are you?

(Sincerely, a fellow vehement Biden supporter.)

I'm almost impressed by MM's utter lack of self-awareness.

It's almost at Joe Kennedy III level

[GoTfan]

He'll likely be stuck with the "loser" image for the rest of his life. A primary against Pressley is going to be massively harder; she's a black woman popular with the left but hasn't done anything to really offend the rest of the party.