Ben Shapiro burns Barbies

[John Dule]

Ok folks. Let’s say, hypothetically, that I am a Barbie girl. By definition, that means that I live in a Barbie world. Now, assuming that both of those statements hold constant, one would have to reach the inescapable logical conclusion that life in plastic is fantastic. Now that we’ve established that, let’s also say for the sake of argument that you can touch my hair, and also hypothetically undress me everywhere. Ultimately this means that by using your imagination, life is your creation.

[John Dule]

The majority of the Star War's fan base hates The Last Jedi regardless of their political affiliation.

Source?

Look at the audience score: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi

Look at how much hate it gets on Star Wars related forums and even redditt(which is a very liberal site politically) .

Just look at how much worse Star Wars related media has done since the Last Jedi came out as well then it was doing from 15-17.

It's been well-documented that the Last Jedi was one of the most notorious victims of review-bombing (along with Captain Marvel) and the reason why RT changed the way it calculates audience scores.

The rest of your argument is pure idiocy. No self-respecting person takes seriously what a bunch of edgelord teenagers say in reddit and 4chan. 

“Review-bombing” reflects how people actually feel about the film. Why did nobody “review-bomb” The Dark Knight? Could it be because they liked it?

[John Dule]

The majority of the Star War's fan base hates The Last Jedi regardless of their political affiliation.

Source?

Look at the audience score: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi

Look at how much hate it gets on Star Wars related forums and even redditt(which is a very liberal site politically) .

Just look at how much worse Star Wars related media has done since the Last Jedi came out as well then it was doing from 15-17.

It's been well-documented that the Last Jedi was one of the most notorious victims of review-bombing (along with Captain Marvel) and the reason why RT changed the way it calculates audience scores.

The rest of your argument is pure idiocy. No self-respecting person takes seriously what a bunch of edgelord teenagers say in reddit and 4chan. 

“Review-bombing” reflects how people actually feel about the film. Why did nobody “review-bomb” The Dark Knight? Could it be because they liked it?

If you believe that all of the people review-bombing actually watched the film, I've got a bridge to sell you.

There's no reason to assume that the vast majority of them didn't. Having seen The Last Jedi, the only thing I find surprising about the audience score is that it isn't 0%. And the fact that RT "recalibrated" its audience scores in order to be lenient towards megacorporate products like these is hardly something to celebrate.

[John Dule]

There's no reason to assume that the vast majority of them didn't.

For being such a badass edgelord you're actually pretty naive.

Or else you'd know that many of the people who review-bomb these films are proudly admitting that they never saw and never will see a "woke" movie.

Scrolling through the negative reviews for The Last Jedi on any review site (RT, Letterboxd, Google reviews) will yield hundreds of comments mocking the film for its characterization, meandering plot, poorly thought out action sequences, failure to engage with the existing storyline, and lack of resolution to its many pointless narrative threads. The idea that this film was hated for political reasons is an excuse invented by Kathleen Kennedy and her marketing team to explain why their terrible franchise is hated by fans and made progressively less money with each installment.

[John Dule]

So are the EU austerity measures preventing new memes from making their way to the Greek internet, or is your sense of humor just stuck in 2012?

[John Dule]

There's no reason to assume that the vast majority of them didn't. Having seen The Last Jedi, the only thing I find surprising about the audience score is that it isn't 0%. And the fact that RT "recalibrated" its audience scores in order to be lenient towards megacorporate products like these is hardly something to celebrate.

"The Last Jedi was a bad movie" and "The Last Jedi was review-bombed by terminally online misogynistic weirdos" are not mutually exclusive from each other.

Why would "misogynistic weirdos" attack The Last Jedi's audience score but not The Force Awakens? Both films had the same (female) protagonist. Stop doing Disney's marketing work for them. You're defending low-effort fanfic drivel being produced on an assembly line by a company that uses important social causes as easy fallback excuses when their products fail. Even if 5% of the negative reviews actually came from misogynists (a generous assumption), that doesn't explain why you and Lyndon feel the need to defend these abominations like they're your family members.

[John Dule]

There's no reason to assume that the vast majority of them didn't. Having seen The Last Jedi, the only thing I find surprising about the audience score is that it isn't 0%. And the fact that RT "recalibrated" its audience scores in order to be lenient towards megacorporate products like these is hardly something to celebrate.

"The Last Jedi was a bad movie" and "The Last Jedi was review-bombed by terminally online misogynistic weirdos" are not mutually exclusive from each other.

But you see these incel losers genuinely believe that the vast majority of the general population agree with their anti-woke opinions. It's like Republicans who believe that they are a majority and the only way Democrats can win an election is by fraud.

Exactly, the general public couldn't care less about "wokeness" or "anti-wokeness." So when a movie is widely reviled by fans of the franchise, we can safely assume that "wokeness" was not the reason it was hated.

[John Dule]

Last Jedi is 6.9 on IMDB which means the consensus of viewers is that it is a good movie. 🤷

As I said, I don't love the movie. But it's certainly better than the awful Rise of Skywalker which gets only a fraction of the hate of Last Jedi.

We can probably agree there. I haven't seen Rise of Skywalker, but everything I've heard about the plot tells me it's one of the worst films ever made.

Disney Wars just sucks. No vast right-wing conspiracy is necessary to explain the hate it has received. And generally, online movie reviewers are morons who would give a 7/10 rating to a video of me shaving my asshole. The fact that these big-budget blockbusters managed to get 3/5 ratings on sites like Google Reviews or Letterboxd, given the taste preferences of these people, is a pretty damning indictment in and of itself.

[John Dule]

Why would "misogynistic weirdos" attack The Last Jedi's audience score but not The Force Awakens? Both films had the same (female) protagonist.

I don't know, these lunatics aren't rational.

Stop doing Disney's marketing work for them. You're defending low-effort fanfic drivel being produced on an assembly line by a company that uses important social causes as easy fallback excuses when their products fail. Even if 5% of the negative reviews actually came from misogynists (a generous assumption), that doesn't explain why you and Lyndon feel the need to defend these abominations like they're your family members.

I'm not defending Disney or The Last Jedi, I'm defending my beliefs. I don't even think that most people who disliked The Last Jedi were sexist. I'm just saying it's dumb and objectively false to deny that the movie was review-bombed by misogynists.

You're making no sense at all. The Last Jedi currently has a 42% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes. That is after RT scrubbed "suspicious" reviews from its system, banned bots, and recalibrated the way the score is calculated in favor of Disney's garbage films. What reason do we have to assume that that 42% is not reflective of how Star Wars fans felt about the movie? Because you saw one neckbeard on YouTube who complained about "wokeness" in Star Wars? Please.

[John Dule]

Rotten Tomatoes gives it a 42%(the audience score) as well and 6.9 is not a good score for a blockbuster franchise on IMDB.

Amazing Spider-Man 2 got 6.6 for example

6.9 is a good score on IMDB. I look up 20-30 movies a week on there. I didn't think Amazing Spider-Man 2 was a bad movie if that is your implication but regardless the score means the viewers think is middling to good, not bad.

Congrats, you just made my ignore list. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[John Dule]

Why are we talking exclusively about the Last Jedi? It's not like these limp-dicked sexist morons don't hate movies which otherwise were well-reviewed and uncontroversial.

Right, who could forget the infamous review-bombing of Alien and Terminator 2? Those sexist nerds clearly hate those movies since they starred women.

[John Dule]

Rotten Tomatoes gives it a 42%(the audience score) as well and 6.9 is not a good score for a blockbuster franchise on IMDB.

Amazing Spider-Man 2 got 6.6 for example

6.9 is a good score on IMDB. I look up 20-30 movies a week on there. I didn't think Amazing Spider-Man 2 was a bad movie if that is your implication but regardless the score means the viewers think is middling to good, not bad.

Congrats, you just made my ignore list. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I wasn't even talking to you. I was just giving my opinion. This whole thread you keep stating your opinion of movies over and over again like it's an obvious fact. They're just your opinions, and not everyone agrees with you.

You don't have to agree with me. At the same time, I don't have to listen to the opinions of people who have worse taste in film than the average seven-year-old. Storytelling is an art form that has existed for thousands of years, and if by now you haven't managed to discern the good from the bad then nothing I can say will help you.

[John Dule]

Why are we talking exclusively about the Last Jedi? It's not like these limp-dicked sexist morons don't hate movies which otherwise were well-reviewed and uncontroversial.

Right, who could forget the infamous review-bombing of Alien and Terminator 2? Those sexist nerds clearly hate those movies since they starred women.

Is this an act somehow or is this really you?

Do you have a response, or are you going to continue trying to change the subject every time someone proves you wrong about something?

[John Dule]

There's no reason to assume that the vast majority of them didn't. Having seen The Last Jedi, the only thing I find surprising about the audience score is that it isn't 0%. And the fact that RT "recalibrated" its audience scores in order to be lenient towards megacorporate products like these is hardly something to celebrate.

"The Last Jedi was a bad movie" and "The Last Jedi was review-bombed by terminally online misogynistic weirdos" are not mutually exclusive from each other.

But immune to the force and all it's magic, and had to make it with his own brains and brawns. Something like what Han Solo was in the original but with the brother twist.

So like the Yuuzhan Vong

Ah yes, the NJO, the super long series that was great hit Star Wars fans hated for a long time. Aka Star Wars fans are whiny trash in general who hate everything done.

Username: MasterJedi

[John Dule]

Why are we talking exclusively about the Last Jedi? It's not like these limp-dicked sexist morons don't hate movies which otherwise were well-reviewed and uncontroversial.

Because everyone was warned about it years before it came into existance, I remember South Park did entire episodes about Disney ruining Star Wars back in 2012.

Kathleen Kennedy's mistake was the she didn't gather her handpicked directors one weekend at a resort where they'd hammer out an outline for the new trilogy: where the heroes would be at the start and where they'd be at the end along with a general plot. Instead she let them do whatever they wanted which resulted in chaos and conflicting storylines.
That was what ruined the new trilogy, not increased representation of women and minorities like these online bozos suggest.

I recommended your post because the first portion was entirely correct. That is precisely the reason why the series sucked, and if you ask the average Star Wars fan (not the mouth-breathers who collect Funko Pop dolls and give 10/10 ratings to anything with their favorite brand slapped on it), 95% of them will say the same.

[John Dule]

There's no reason to assume that the vast majority of them didn't. Having seen The Last Jedi, the only thing I find surprising about the audience score is that it isn't 0%. And the fact that RT "recalibrated" its audience scores in order to be lenient towards megacorporate products like these is hardly something to celebrate.

"The Last Jedi was a bad movie" and "The Last Jedi was review-bombed by terminally online misogynistic weirdos" are not mutually exclusive from each other.

But immune to the force and all it's magic, and had to make it with his own brains and brawns. Something like what Han Solo was in the original but with the brother twist.

So like the Yuuzhan Vong

Ah yes, the NJO, the super long series that was great hit Star Wars fans hated for a long time. Aka Star Wars fans are whiny trash in general who hate everything done.

Username: MasterJedi

Would prefer to have nothing from Disney and leave them to continue the EU as they were but nothing is as bad as the incels make it out to be.

I'm just gonna start calling people "incels" if they dislike Eagle Eye (2008). It makes exactly as much sense as calling someone a sexless virgin because they hated any other movie.

[John Dule]

Last Jedi was definitely reviewed bombed by reactionary trolls at first but still ended up being an objectively bad movie that audiences legitimately hated that it didn’t make a difference in the end 🤷‍♂️

It's not objective. It can't be.

It absolutely is, and I will happily explain this once again to anyone who cannot get it through their thick skull.

[John Dule]

Last Jedi was definitely reviewed bombed by reactionary trolls at first but still ended up being an objectively bad movie that audiences legitimately hated that it didn’t make a difference in the end 🤷‍♂️

It's not objective. It can't be.

It absolutely is, and I will happily explain this once again to anyone who cannot get it through their thick skull.

It's not objective. You haven't given any standard by which to evaluate it. So until then you're just bloviating.

There is an obvious standard by which to measure all the Star Wars sequels: The definition of what a "sequel" is. A sequel is a subsequent installment in a narrative that further develops the story/theme/characters of the previous installment. Something that calls itself a "sequel" that fails to do this is by definition a failure.

The Star Wars sequels do not engage whatsoever with the existing storyline of the franchise. They include some of the same characters, but their story (insofar as it even exists) is entirely divorced from the existing narrative arc of the series. The Last Jedi is as much a "sequel" to its predecessors as Barbie is a "sequel" to Oppenheimer. Art may be subjective, but it is entirely possible to objectively determine whether a work of art fits a specific definition of a word. None of the films in the sequel trilogy qualify as sequels. At best it's false advertising. At worst, it's a complete structural failure on the most basic level of storytelling.

[John Dule]

Now that you've laid out your standards by which to judge it, let's see your argument that it's not a good movie.

None of the films in the Star Wars "sequel" trilogy are sequels. They are soft reboots disguised as sequels, and without the official Star Wars IP branding they would be unrecognizable as Star Wars films. Their battle sequences follow none of the existing rules of the franchise. The military and political situation in the films is entirely disconnected from the rest of the series. The returning characters occupy roles that make no sense, and for reasons that are never explained. There is no continuity between the conclusion to the narrative at the end of Return of the Jedi and the beginning of the new series. And this all applies even within the "sequel" trilogy-- The Last Jedi is similarly disconnected from The Force Awakens, and from what I've heard the same is true for The Rise of Skywalker. They might as well take place in an alternate universe.

You need to understand that this is not a criticism of the films when it comes to acting, visuals, dialogue, tone, pacing, or even plot. Yes, all those things suck too-- but I agree they are artistically subjective. What is not subjective, however, is the fundamental concept of what a narrative is. We can quibble about whether Twilight is a good book, but if Stephanie Meyer had marketed it as a sequel to the Odyssey, we would be able to objectively say that the book failed on the most basic level: It is not what it claims to be. The same applies here. The sequel trilogy films are objectively narrative failures. This makes them bad.

[John Dule]

They're requels. Big whoop. Anyway, I guess go ahead and put me back on whenever you're ready then lol.

You do not get to "big whoop" that. If you have the slightest respect for the concept of narrative storytelling as an art form, explain your position.

[John Dule]

Saw that this thread had expanded to seven pages. Braced myself for what I assumed was going to be an absolute flame War involving Bunches of gratuitous dunking on trans people. To my pleasant surprise it was merely Pages after pages of tail-chasing debate over how to objectively judge a movie and applying said standards or lack thereof to The Last Jedi.

Progress for Atlas I guess?

I mean debates over Star Wars can become just as heated as debates over trans issues too

I only block people on this site for their Star Wars opinions. I can forgive communism and fascism, but I’ll be damned if I sit here and listen to Disney fanboys.