BREAKING: US has traded Russian arms dealer, Viktor Bout (Merchant of Death) for Brittney Griner

[Ferguson97]

My gut reaction was that this was a bad deal, but this article by a well-respected national security journalist brought an interesting perspective:

So why even consider the potential offer? First, Bout is a spent force who will be out of jail in a few years anyway. His business depended on personal relationships and trust among the parties. After being out of the business for more than a decade, Bout has neither of those left in the shadowy world in which he once operated. Second, Bout needed access to a global network stretching from Afghanistan to Europe, Africa and South America. That network has morphed through several generations of new actors, markets and gatekeepers. Bout has no currency in that world now.

Finally, Bout depended in the early years on the gross negligence of the former Soviet states to allow him to simply fly out aircraft and weapons in a spree of de facto privatization of one of the world’s most advanced arsenals. In his later years, he was reined in by the Russian state under Putin, no longer able to freelance at will and without unfettered access to massive caches of weapons. It is unlikely he would have any freedom of movement in the weapons trade unless he was in the direct service of the Russian intelligence services, and now he is burned beyond the ability to be useful in any significant capacity.

[Ferguson97]

Some of you people just need to admit that you would rather have seen her rot in a Russian prison because she happens to be a Black, relatively butch lesbian.

If you are going to make absurd and outrageous claims like this, you need evidence.

Some of the loudest critics of Biden's move here are notorious racists and homophobes, so why should they be given the benefit of the doubt that their objections are not based on bigotry?

[Ferguson97]

Some of you people just need to admit that you would rather have seen her rot in a Russian prison because she happens to be a Black, relatively butch lesbian.

If you are going to make absurd and outrageous claims like this, you need evidence.

Some of the loudest critics of Biden's move here are notorious racists and homophobes, so why should they be given the benefit of the doubt that their objections are not based on bigotry?

Because there are plenty of reasons to criticize this decision? Are we supposed to never criticize anything involving a black woman or a person who is LGBTQ?

That's not what I said at all.

I'm not saying that there are no legitimate criticisms of Biden's decision. Because there are.

But there are certain people who are primarily upset because the freed person was a Black lesbian.

[Ferguson97]

Brittney Griner DOES hate America; let's stop kidding ourselves.  She's not "showing her patriotism in a different way" or some kind of drivel like that.  She has had nothing but criticism in her public statements, and she delights in the offense she causes among millions of Americans who believe that America is a fundamentally GOOD nation that has, on balance, been a force for Good in the World. 

Once upon a time, there was a man who had a wife.  In his conversation with his wife he would almost always be critical about her personality, and her family (how she came from a line of losers), how they were this and that negative quality.  He would always acknowledge her as his wife, but he would be openly critical of her (she needs to lose weight "for her health", she "doesn't understand him", etc.  You get the drift.  As to telling his wife that he loves her, this husband would say things like "You know I love you!", or (even worse) "I've already told you that."  Now this husband did fulfill his obligation to work, pay the bills, etc. and he did not cheat.

Does this man love his wife?  Of course not; he hates and despises her.  He doesn't want that reputation, because that reputation is inconvenient, but he hates her.  Someone who loves their wife shows it.  Someone who loves their wife emphasizes the positive and discusses their differences discreetly.  And someone who loves their wife (or their parents, or their kids, for that matter) affirms that every day.  People who can't do that are people who don't love their wives but don't want the whole world to know that.

This hypothetical example illustrates Brittney Griner's feelings toward America.  She hates it.  Until, of course, she needs America to save her from the wrath of Mad Vlad.  These husbands have their "Mad Vlad" days as well, when they realize that they NEED their wife, but their wife, after being mentally and emotionally loathed comes to their aid, but the years of emotional neglect shows in her lack of an enthusiastic response.  That's where I am with Brittney Griner, and where millions of Americans are with this issue.  We're glad she's home because she's one of the family.  But she's been a lousy family member.  I'm hoping that this experience will prove transformative for Griner, but to tell me that Brittney Griner doesn't hate America is to tell me that it's raining while you allow your to relieve himself/herself on my pant leg.

Do you honestly believe that a) criticizing America means you hate it or that b) the relationship between a husband and his wife is in any way, shape, or form comparable to the relationship between a person and their country?

[Ferguson97]

Brittney Griner DOES hate America; let's stop kidding ourselves.  She's not "showing her patriotism in a different way" or some kind of drivel like that.  She has had nothing but criticism in her public statements, and she delights in the offense she causes among millions of Americans who believe that America is a fundamentally GOOD nation that has, on balance, been a force for Good in the World. 

Once upon a time, there was a man who had a wife.  In his conversation with his wife he would almost always be critical about her personality, and her family (how she came from a line of losers), how they were this and that negative quality.  He would always acknowledge her as his wife, but he would be openly critical of her (she needs to lose weight "for her health", she "doesn't understand him", etc.  You get the drift.  As to telling his wife that he loves her, this husband would say things like "You know I love you!", or (even worse) "I've already told you that."  Now this husband did fulfill his obligation to work, pay the bills, etc. and he did not cheat.

Does this man love his wife?  Of course not; he hates and despises her.  He doesn't want that reputation, because that reputation is inconvenient, but he hates her.  Someone who loves their wife shows it.  Someone who loves their wife emphasizes the positive and discusses their differences discreetly.  And someone who loves their wife (or their parents, or their kids, for that matter) affirms that every day.  People who can't do that are people who don't love their wives but don't want the whole world to know that.

This hypothetical example illustrates Brittney Griner's feelings toward America.  She hates it.  Until, of course, she needs America to save her from the wrath of Mad Vlad.  These husbands have their "Mad Vlad" days as well, when they realize that they NEED their wife, but their wife, after being mentally and emotionally loathed comes to their aid, but the years of emotional neglect shows in her lack of an enthusiastic response.  That's where I am with Brittney Griner, and where millions of Americans are with this issue.  We're glad she's home because she's one of the family.  But she's been a lousy family member.  I'm hoping that this experience will prove transformative for Griner, but to tell me that Brittney Griner doesn't hate America is to tell me that it's raining while you allow your to relieve himself/herself on my pant leg.

Do you honestly believe that a) criticizing America means you hate it or that b) the relationship between a husband and his wife is in any way, shape, or form comparable to the relationship between a person and their country?

When a person's public rhetoric is nothing but criticism and when their public gestures are those with affirmatively deny a sense of connectedness with America (e. g. conspicuously standing for the Anthem, as opposed to passively standing), then, yes, that's hatred.  Not the hatred of the ranting lunatic, but the hatred of the person who would see you being mugged and not call the cops, or who would see you injured and not render aid if it were inconvenient to do so.

What evidence is there that Brittany Griner has any positive vibe for America?  We've seen the hostility; you show me the other side of the coin.  America has its faults, and I've certainly been critical of America in my lifetime, but where's the sense of anything positive that Griner feels toward America, as a nation (as opposed to her "community" or "Americans of Color" or any subgroup that does not reflect America as a whole)?

Kneeling for the national anthem does not mean that she hates America. That’s a ridiculous assertion.

To me, loving America should be more about the values you hold and the sort of changes that you want to see, the idea that we can do better, rather than purely performative gestures like flag-waving or singing the national anthem.

[Ferguson97]

Standing for the Anthem is a gesture of affirming that you are, at a minimum, a part of America and wish it well.  It's a minimum, but Griner could not even do that.

It is not the minimum.

[Ferguson97]

Well, then, enlighten me.  What are the statements that disprove the assertion that Brittney Griner hates America?

Lol that’s not how it works. You’re making the assertion that she hates America, the burden of proof is on you.

[Ferguson97]

Well, then, enlighten me.  What are the statements that disprove the assertion that Brittney Griner hates America?

Lol that’s not how it works. You’re making the assertion that she hates America, the burden of proof is on you.

Sorry, you don't make the rules, either.  This isn't Court.

This is how all discussions and debates work. The person making the claim has to provide the proof.

[Ferguson97]

It's a valid analogy.

Why?