Was 9/11 an inside job?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You know the best part is Libertas is probably going to parade about how he's winning this argument and owning everyone when the poll results show pretty clearly how good he is at convincing people.

[Associate Justice PiT]

You know the best part is Libertas is probably going to parade about how he's winning this argument and owning everyone when the poll results show pretty clearly how good he is at convincing people.

     Clearly the poll results mean that we are all just governmentalist sheeple who refuse to listen to reason.

[Phony Moderate]

It's funny how even most Truthers don't question whether Osama Bin Laden actually exists.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

"Military precision"?  One plane didn't make it, the second WTC plane nearly missed the tower altogether; this is not military precision.

Seriously? Do you know how much precision it would have required just to fly those planes the way they did, never mind everything else that had to fall into place and be just right for the attacks to have happened as successfully as they did?

Libby, these terrorists were trained pilots.  It isn't that difficult for a trained pilot to do what they did.

Somehow I doubt that you're speaking from experience. Flying the jetliners into skinny skyscrapers- and even more unbelievable, the way the plane was flown so close to the ground with military skill perpendicularly into the Pentagon- are hardly easy feats of flying.

And as I said, flying the planes was not the only thing that required a precise operation typical of a major world government, not of some ragtag Muslims in a cave in a backward country. For example, there's also the issue of why the planes weren't shot out of the sky...why did Dick Cheney order NORAD to stand down?

We had an objective investigation; it didn't say what you wanted it to say, so you rejected it.

No, it didn't. It had a sham 'investigation' that didn't even try to address the most glaring questions. It was not at all independent nor objective nor even very inquisitive.

Of course 40 years everyone believed what the Warren Commission had to say about JFK's assassination; nowadays it's conclusions are nearly-universally acknowledged to be full of holes. As the emotional and psychological shackles start to break off, people will begin to question the 9/11 story just as well.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You know the best part is Libertas is probably going to parade about how he's winning this argument and owning everyone when the poll results show pretty clearly how good he is at convincing people.

     Clearly the poll results mean that we are all just governmentalist sheeple who refuse to listen to reason.

And even you're making fun of him on this. Enough said.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

You know the best part is Libertas is probably going to parade about how he's winning this argument and owning everyone when the poll results show pretty clearly how good he is at convincing people.

Uh yeah, I know your whole life revolves around just following the crowd, but poll results don't determine truth and fiction, nor right and wrong.

[Associate Justice PiT]

You know the best part is Libertas is probably going to parade about how he's winning this argument and owning everyone when the poll results show pretty clearly how good he is at convincing people.

     Clearly the poll results mean that we are all just governmentalist sheeple who refuse to listen to reason.

And even you're making fun of him on this. Enough said.

     It has nothing to do with ideology. I simply have never put much stock in conspiracy "theories".

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You know the best part is Libertas is probably going to parade about how he's winning this argument and owning everyone when the poll results show pretty clearly how good he is at convincing people.

     Clearly the poll results mean that we are all just governmentalist sheeple who refuse to listen to reason.

And even you're making fun of him on this. Enough said.

     It has nothing to do with ideology. I simply have never put much stock in conspiracy "theories".

Well yes, it's just that you too often tend to side with each other on anything involving extreme libertarianism. Though here it's not really that but simply raw stupidity.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

"Military precision"?  One plane didn't make it, the second WTC plane nearly missed the tower altogether; this is not military precision.

Seriously? Do you know how much precision it would have required just to fly those planes the way they did, never mind everything else that had to fall into place and be just right for the attacks to have happened as successfully as they did?

Libby, these terrorists were trained pilots.  It isn't that difficult for a trained pilot to do what they did.

Somehow I doubt that you're speaking from experience. Flying the jetliners into skinny skyscrapers- and even more unbelievable, the way the plane was flown so close to the ground with military skill perpendicularly into the Pentagon- are hardly easy feats of flying.

And as I said, flying the planes was not the only thing that required a precise operation typical of a major world government, not of some ragtag Muslims in a cave in a backward country. For example, there's also the issue of why the planes weren't shot out of the sky...why did Dick Cheney order NORAD to stand down?

It's an easy bit of flying if you're a trained pilot, which is what each hijacker was.  And the terrorists had spent years planning this, which is why things went so smoothly - and remember, one of the terrorists had to stay in Germany because he couldn't get a visa.  The planes weren't shot out of the sky because we had no idea what was going on; once we did realize it, we reacted swiftly, getting fighters into the air and bringing down every other plane.

Of course 40 years everyone believed what the Warren Commission had to say about JFK's assassination; nowadays it's conclusions are nearly-universally acknowledged to be full of holes. As the emotional and psychological shackles start to break off, people will begin to question the 9/11 story just as well.

Except that isn't even true; there's a world of difference between JFK and 9/11.  There's infinitely more evidence for 9/11, we saw it happen on live television; people admitted to committing the attacks, etc.

[Phony Moderate]

We had an objective investigation; it didn't say what you wanted it to say, so you rejected it.

No, it didn't. It had a sham 'investigation' that didn't even try to address the most glaring questions. It was not at all independent nor objective nor even very inquisitive.

Of course 40 years everyone believed what the Warren Commission had to say about JFK's assassination; nowadays it's conclusions are nearly-universally acknowledged to be full of holes. As the emotional and psychological shackles start to break off, people will begin to question the 9/11 story just as well.

Debating yourself? That's....interesting.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

One of my favorite Libertas quotes on this is how the "Truth" movement now contains "respected" individuals like Jesse Ventura and Cynthia McKinney. The funniest bit being how "respected" is not meant ironically.

[patrick1]

"Military precision"?  One plane didn't make it, the second WTC plane nearly missed the tower altogether; this is not military precision.

Seriously? Do you know how much precision it would have required just to fly those planes the way they did, never mind everything else that had to fall into place and be just right for the attacks to have happened as successfully as they did?

Libby, these terrorists were trained pilots.  It isn't that difficult for a trained pilot to do what they did.

Somehow I doubt that you're speaking from experience. Flying the jetliners into skinny skyscrapers- and even more unbelievable, the way the plane was flown so close to the ground with military skill perpendicularly into the Pentagon- are hardly easy feats of flying.

And as I said, flying the planes was not the only thing that required a precise operation typical of a major world government, not of some ragtag Muslims in a cave in a backward country. For example, there's also the issue of why the planes weren't shot out of the sky...why did Dick Cheney order NORAD to stand down?

We had an objective investigation; it didn't say what you wanted it to say, so you rejected it.

No, it didn't. It had a sham 'investigation' that didn't even try to address the most glaring questions. It was not at all independent nor objective nor even very inquisitive.

Of course 40 years everyone believed what the Warren Commission had to say about JFK's assassination; nowadays it's conclusions are nearly-universally acknowledged to be full of holes. As the emotional and psychological shackles start to break off, people will begin to question the 9/11 story just as well.

Our doctrine was still based on the cold war. The SOP was to fly out to sea to engage incoming bombers.  Most of our jets were not even armed and would have required them to crash and eject.  NORAD was quite a different animal than the current Northcom's capabilities.
These guys were already in level flight when they hijacked the planes.  It is not difficult for a novice to control altitude and bearing.  That function of it is described as driving a car in an extra dimension.  Further, It was also a crystal clear day.  I think it was Atta's plane that just basically follows the Hudson River line down the whole way.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

It's an easy bit of flying if you're a trained pilot, which is what each hijacker was.  And the terrorists had spent years planning this, which is why things went so smoothly - and remember, one of the terrorists had to stay in Germany because he couldn't get a visa.

Yeah, such expert pilots. Like Hani Hanjour....

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20A11FD35550C778CDDAC0894DA404482

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...who somehow managed to fly with military precision into the Pentagon.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040814205203/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/2020/2020_011024_atc_feature.html

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Uh huh, so you seriously believe that nobody noticed anything when four commercial airliners were suddenly hijacked? And they still didn't notice when one-by-one the started crashing into buildings?

Why did Dick Cheney order NORAD to stand down?

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And I saw it live with my own eyes. That doesn't mean a damn thing.

And if there is so much evidence on your side, why are you afraid of an independent investigation?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

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Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

And if there is so much evidence on your side, why are you afraid of an independent investigation?

I'm not.  I haven't once criticized the ideas of a new investigation.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

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Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

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Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

Their goal was to kill people; ideally by crashing into the Pentagon.  He knew how to fly a plan; unfortunately, he got lucky and was able to fulfill his job.

[patrick1]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

Yes, he was a very bad pilot because he didnt care about take offs and landings.  They were focused on learning how to steer the plane and he learned this pretty basic skill.

At least you didn't redact the relevant part of the other quote only choosing not to bold it.  Military pilots are allowed to operate a plan in manners way outside the boundaries of a commercial aircraft.  They do not have paying civilians to worry about barfing all over themselves and suing the airline for giving them a heart attack.  As phone transcript with the crew on the Atta plane indicate- he was flying waaaaaaaaay too fast down the Hudson line.  The didnt care about the passengers comfort.  However, as stated in previous post.  Level flight flying is not very difficult.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I actually remember that being mentioned on the news we were watching in high school class the day after 9/11. Identified hijacker only made a big deal about flying the plane, not taking off or landing.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

Their goal was to kill people; ideally by crashing into the Pentagon.  He knew how to fly a plan; unfortunately, he got lucky and was able to fulfill his job.

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Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

Yes, he was a very bad pilot because he didnt care about take offs and landings.  They were focused on learning how to steer the plane and he learned this pretty basic skill.

At least you didn't redact the relevant part of the other quote only choosing not to bold it.  Military pilots are allowed to operate a plan in manners way outside the boundaries of a commercial aircraft.  They do not have paying civilians to worry about barfing all over themselves and suing the airline for giving them a heart attack.  As phone transcript with the crew on the Atta plane indicate- he was flying waaaaaaaaay too fast down the Hudson line.  The didnt care about the passengers comfort.  However, as stated in previous post.  Level flight flying is not very difficult.

Guys, the unsafe part is irrelevant. The fact that the plane was flown like that at all- The "speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned"- displayed the skills of a military pilot. The way the plane pivoted is acknowledged as requiring a pilot of substantial skill, which Hanjour was not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14365-2001Sep11&notFound=true

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Yet you're telling me this could easily be done by a guy who couldn't control a Cessna at a flight school.


Here's a piece by an aeronautical engineer and pilot which pretty much demolishes the official story on this, addressing Hanjour as well as the other alleged "expert pilots." The idea that they could have pulled off what the official story alleges they pulled off is utterly absurd.


Of course Hanjour was also helped out by Dick Cheney ordering NORAD to stand down, allowing him to fly into the most restricted airspace in the world without interception despite the fact that it had been more than an hour since the WTC had been hit and they knew two planes were still missing.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Somebody just lock this thread already.

[patrick1]

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

Their goal was to kill people; ideally by crashing into the Pentagon.  He knew how to fly a plan; unfortunately, he got lucky and was able to fulfill his job.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

Yes, he was a very bad pilot because he didnt care about take offs and landings.  They were focused on learning how to steer the plane and he learned this pretty basic skill.

At least you didn't redact the relevant part of the other quote only choosing not to bold it.  Military pilots are allowed to operate a plan in manners way outside the boundaries of a commercial aircraft.  They do not have paying civilians to worry about barfing all over themselves and suing the airline for giving them a heart attack.  As phone transcript with the crew on the Atta plane indicate- he was flying waaaaaaaaay too fast down the Hudson line.  The didnt care about the passengers comfort.  However, as stated in previous post.  Level flight flying is not very difficult.

Guys, the unsafe part is irrelevant. The fact that the plane was flown like that at all- The "speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned"- displayed the skills of a military pilot. The way the plane pivoted is acknowledged as requiring a pilot of substantial skill, which Hanjour was not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14365-2001Sep11&notFound=true

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yet you're telling me this could easily be done by a guy who couldn't control a Cessna at a flight school.


Here's a piece by an aeronautical engineer and pilot which pretty much demolishes the official story on this, addressing Hanjour as well as the other alleged "expert pilots." The idea that they could have pulled off what the official story alleges they pulled off is utterly absurd.


Of course Hanjour was also helped out by Dick Cheney ordering NORAD to stand down, allowing him to fly into the most restricted airspace in the world without interception despite the fact that it had been more than an hour since the WTC had been hit and they knew two planes were still missing.

Hanjour was a trained and licensed pilot at one time.  Compared to other pilots he sucked at it because he couldnt get a job.  These guys didnt care to learn to take off and land a large Boeing in sim because they didnt have to.  They practiced there banking and you just aim and point.  He couldnt land a Cessna nor I'm sure a Boeing.  Although larger commercial aircraft are considered much easier to control than a Cessna in many facets of flight.

Your "expert" also has a hard on for E.T.'s so I'm not really surprised he buys into this stuff
http://www.warpaintofthegods.com/WP/about.html

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

Their goal was to kill people; ideally by crashing into the Pentagon.  He knew how to fly a plan; unfortunately, he got lucky and was able to fulfill his job.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

Yes, he was a very bad pilot because he didnt care about take offs and landings.  They were focused on learning how to steer the plane and he learned this pretty basic skill.

At least you didn't redact the relevant part of the other quote only choosing not to bold it.  Military pilots are allowed to operate a plan in manners way outside the boundaries of a commercial aircraft.  They do not have paying civilians to worry about barfing all over themselves and suing the airline for giving them a heart attack.  As phone transcript with the crew on the Atta plane indicate- he was flying waaaaaaaaay too fast down the Hudson line.  The didnt care about the passengers comfort.  However, as stated in previous post.  Level flight flying is not very difficult.

Guys, the unsafe part is irrelevant. The fact that the plane was flown like that at all- The "speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned"- displayed the skills of a military pilot. The way the plane pivoted is acknowledged as requiring a pilot of substantial skill, which Hanjour was not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14365-2001Sep11&notFound=true

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yet you're telling me this could easily be done by a guy who couldn't control a Cessna at a flight school.


Here's a piece by an aeronautical engineer and pilot which pretty much demolishes the official story on this, addressing Hanjour as well as the other alleged "expert pilots." The idea that they could have pulled off what the official story alleges they pulled off is utterly absurd.


Of course Hanjour was also helped out by Dick Cheney ordering NORAD to stand down, allowing him to fly into the most restricted airspace in the world without interception despite the fact that it had been more than an hour since the WTC had been hit and they knew two planes were still missing.

Hanjour was a trained and licensed pilot at one time.  Compared to other pilots he sucked at it because he couldnt get a job.  These guys didnt care to learn to take off and land a large Boeing in sim because they didnt have to.  They practiced there banking and you just aim and point.  He couldnt land a Cessna nor I'm sure a Boeing.  Although larger commercial aircraft are considered much easier to control than a Cessna in many facets of flight.

And flight schools wondered how the hell he ever got a license considering he was such a terrible pilot. He wasn't just bad at landing, he was bad at controlling the planes just as well.

Also, no offense, but I put more stock in a detailed analysis by an actual aeronautical engineer and pilot than your somewhat unsubstantiated conjecture here.

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Irrelevant.

[patrick1]

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

Their goal was to kill people; ideally by crashing into the Pentagon.  He knew how to fly a plan; unfortunately, he got lucky and was able to fulfill his job.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

Yes, he was a very bad pilot because he didnt care about take offs and landings.  They were focused on learning how to steer the plane and he learned this pretty basic skill.

At least you didn't redact the relevant part of the other quote only choosing not to bold it.  Military pilots are allowed to operate a plan in manners way outside the boundaries of a commercial aircraft.  They do not have paying civilians to worry about barfing all over themselves and suing the airline for giving them a heart attack.  As phone transcript with the crew on the Atta plane indicate- he was flying waaaaaaaaay too fast down the Hudson line.  The didnt care about the passengers comfort.  However, as stated in previous post.  Level flight flying is not very difficult.

Guys, the unsafe part is irrelevant. The fact that the plane was flown like that at all- The "speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned"- displayed the skills of a military pilot. The way the plane pivoted is acknowledged as requiring a pilot of substantial skill, which Hanjour was not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14365-2001Sep11&notFound=true

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yet you're telling me this could easily be done by a guy who couldn't control a Cessna at a flight school.


Here's a piece by an aeronautical engineer and pilot which pretty much demolishes the official story on this, addressing Hanjour as well as the other alleged "expert pilots." The idea that they could have pulled off what the official story alleges they pulled off is utterly absurd.


Of course Hanjour was also helped out by Dick Cheney ordering NORAD to stand down, allowing him to fly into the most restricted airspace in the world without interception despite the fact that it had been more than an hour since the WTC had been hit and they knew two planes were still missing.

Hanjour was a trained and licensed pilot at one time.  Compared to other pilots he sucked at it because he couldnt get a job.  These guys didnt care to learn to take off and land a large Boeing in sim because they didnt have to.  They practiced there banking and you just aim and point.  He couldnt land a Cessna nor I'm sure a Boeing.  Although larger commercial aircraft are considered much easier to control than a Cessna in many facets of flight.

And flight schools wondered how the hell he ever got a license considering he was such a terrible pilot. He wasn't just bad at landing, he was bad at controlling the planes just as well.

Also, no offense, but I put more stock in a detailed analysis by an actual aeronautical engineer and pilot than your somewhat unsubstantiated conjecture here.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Irrelevant.

Is it also irrelevant that he isn't even a practicing pilot or an engineer.  A few people really tore this guy to shreds.  But I'm sure that will be irrelevant too.

Sources matter.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

Their goal was to kill people; ideally by crashing into the Pentagon.  He knew how to fly a plan; unfortunately, he got lucky and was able to fulfill his job.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

Yes, he was a very bad pilot because he didnt care about take offs and landings.  They were focused on learning how to steer the plane and he learned this pretty basic skill.

At least you didn't redact the relevant part of the other quote only choosing not to bold it.  Military pilots are allowed to operate a plan in manners way outside the boundaries of a commercial aircraft.  They do not have paying civilians to worry about barfing all over themselves and suing the airline for giving them a heart attack.  As phone transcript with the crew on the Atta plane indicate- he was flying waaaaaaaaay too fast down the Hudson line.  The didnt care about the passengers comfort.  However, as stated in previous post.  Level flight flying is not very difficult.

Guys, the unsafe part is irrelevant. The fact that the plane was flown like that at all- The "speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned"- displayed the skills of a military pilot. The way the plane pivoted is acknowledged as requiring a pilot of substantial skill, which Hanjour was not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14365-2001Sep11&notFound=true

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yet you're telling me this could easily be done by a guy who couldn't control a Cessna at a flight school.


Here's a piece by an aeronautical engineer and pilot which pretty much demolishes the official story on this, addressing Hanjour as well as the other alleged "expert pilots." The idea that they could have pulled off what the official story alleges they pulled off is utterly absurd.


Of course Hanjour was also helped out by Dick Cheney ordering NORAD to stand down, allowing him to fly into the most restricted airspace in the world without interception despite the fact that it had been more than an hour since the WTC had been hit and they knew two planes were still missing.

Hanjour was a trained and licensed pilot at one time.  Compared to other pilots he sucked at it because he couldnt get a job.  These guys didnt care to learn to take off and land a large Boeing in sim because they didnt have to.  They practiced there banking and you just aim and point.  He couldnt land a Cessna nor I'm sure a Boeing.  Although larger commercial aircraft are considered much easier to control than a Cessna in many facets of flight.

And flight schools wondered how the hell he ever got a license considering he was such a terrible pilot. He wasn't just bad at landing, he was bad at controlling the planes just as well.

Also, no offense, but I put more stock in a detailed analysis by an actual aeronautical engineer and pilot than your somewhat unsubstantiated conjecture here.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Irrelevant.

Is it also irrelevant that he isn't even a practicing pilot or an engineer.  A few people really tore this guy to shreds.  But I'm sure that will be irrelevant too.

Sources matter.

He was a commercial pilot for years, and he has a degree in aeronautical engineering...C'mon now, you're not even trying to discuss the actual issues, so why bother?

I'm wondering why I'm wasting my time here since apparently nobody is interested in actual open-minded debating; you're all just hoping for a chance to play "gotcha!" or to personally insult me for daring to disagree with the hive brain of the masses.

[patrick1]

Libertas, he was not a commercial pilot and claims to have a Bachelors degree in engineering on his Linkedin and from 38years ago.  The dude writes new age religion books for a living.  How you do not see that this is a problem is beyond me?  Can we all claim like Costanza to be an architect or marine biologist when we see fit? ou need reliable sources to make well informed decisions.  You want to talk issues- but these things called facts keep getting in the way.  There are plenty of experts and qualified people out there who debunked his claims line by line.  I can give you the link if you would like.
I am not playing gotcha, rather it is important to correct incorrect and misleading information.
Our government has screwed up plenty of things and there is ample blame to pin on them for a host of issues.   Making up stuff serves a negative purpose and distracts from the very real issues that this country faces.  How to and the best way to achieve solutions to our real problems is up for a debate, facts are not.