Indictment-O-Rama Megathread: Mueller indicts 13 Russians

[Badger]

You have a lot invested in disproving the collusion “narrative” don’t you Limo “Liberal”

A “limousine liberal” is a derogatory term for an affluent individual who supports progressive causes, similar to a champagne socialist. The whole point of the name is a troll, and an outdated one at that.

lmao no. It's a description of who I am and the people around me - Arlington County, VA (where I live) has the highest median income in the country and is very democratic. Thus, the epitome of "limo liberals". I'm owning that term and tongue in cheek alluding to who I am - a liberal in a wealthy family in a wealthy place.

Horsesh**t. You're a troll oh, and a very bad one at that

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

A few minutes ago, Trump tweeted:

"russia started their anti-us campaign in 2014, long before I announced I would run for president. the results of the election were not impacted. The trump campaign did nothing wrong- no collusion!"

This one actually gets even better:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/445716698952658944

Not that the Trump-cult will care, but still.  Here's Trump's full "denial" tweet for maximum irony:


Pretty sure he'd registered MAGA as trademark by then, too. I suppose that technically Trump (R-Moscow) was correct - he was the only one the race who would cut a deal with Putin to sell out America.

[vote for pedro]

You have to check out the photos of the pre-election Pro-trump rallies mentioned in the indictment.  Someone counted 31 *total* attendees for all the rallies.  My favorite is 8 supporters a child and a dog (plus a camera operator!)



https://twitter.com/climateaudit/status/964919619440992256

I know, I know, it's illegal what the Russians did but still pretty funny.

[pbrower2a]

Rush Limbaugh warns Trump not to claim vindication from latest indictments

Even Rush Limbaugh can see big trouble for President Trump now. I can;t see how anything now happening could vindicate the President. It's one thing when Rachel Maddow says it, but when Rush Limbaugh says it....  

[pbrower2a]

You have to check out the photos of the pre-election Pro-trump rallies mentioned in the indictment.  Someone counted 31 *total* attendees for all the rallies.  My favorite is 8 supporters a child and a dog (plus a camera operator!)



https://twitter.com/climateaudit/status/964919619440992256

I know, I know, it's illegal what the Russians did but still pretty funny.

Should there be knowing coordination with a foreign power in the elections of 2016. then we have serious questions of the legitimacy of the government that we have.

Redo 2016 in 2018?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You have to check out the photos of the pre-election Pro-trump rallies mentioned in the indictment.  Someone counted 31 *total* attendees for all the rallies.  My favorite is 8 supporters a child and a dog (plus a camera operator!)



https://twitter.com/climateaudit/status/964919619440992256

I know, I know, it's illegal what the Russians did but still pretty funny.

It also turns out that Joy Ann Reid is a Russian operative.

[Hollywood756]

I guess after today's revelations we should also see under new light Sanders's refusal to vote for Russia sanctions.

ouch- this is a painful sentence to read. I don't have any other information though.

[Hollywood756]

No, their goal was not to elect Trump, it was to create chaos and sew doubt about the functioning of our democracy.  Supporting Trump during the election was merely the best way for them to do that.  I feel sort of sorry for Trump, but only in the tiny violin sense of being sorry.  Not only does Trump have to know now deep in his bowels that there's a good chance that the Russians made it possible for him to win, but he also has to know that he was only a tool as far the Russians were concerned and never a goal.

Even worse than that for his ego is that to keep out of jail, he'll need to convince everyone that the Russians thought of him as nothing more than an useful idiot who just happened to fit their needs as a chaos creator.

There's a lot of credibility, I think, in considering Trump merely a useful idiot, but you also have to consider that this was apparently his final too-big bite of the apple. He's been working with russian parties for decades to launder probably billions of dollars, maybe even 10's of billions, into the US. This involvement with Russia in politics was just so poorly done that it's exposed the whole criminal network. There's no way he avoids jail. As a matter of fact, I am as certain that he will die in prison as I've ever been of anything.

[Hollywood756]

I remember back in 2012 when Obama told Romney that "talking about Russia is so 1980s", boy have things changed since then.

You know, this has bothered me for a while. It was widely regarded as completely outdated when Romney said that russia was our biggest international threat. I see three options:
1. He really was just living in the cold war.
2. He was talking about something that we don't readily consider in the narrative- perhaps he was talking about their oil or their movements into fuller capitalism or something. He may have been trying to make a cogent point and got laughed down.
3. He was unusually prescient, either by luck or by knowledge.

I think it's a least considering that he knew enough to say something then. It may not be likely, but it is a question worth asking.

[Hollywood756]

One effect of these indictments is that it probably puts an end to Sanders in 2020.  

remember when one emphatic yell was enough to get Howard Dean out of the running? I think it's the optics that removes him from contention. Plus, the dude is a billion years old. I think it's true, if regrettable.

[Hollywood756]

Pretty sure he'd registered MAGA as trademark by then, too. I suppose that technically Trump (R-Moscow) was correct - he was the only one the race who would cut a deal with Putin to sell out America.

He had. it was registered in 2012.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I remember back in 2012 when Obama told Romney that "talking about Russia is so 1980s", boy have things changed since then.

You know, this has bothered me for a while. It was widely regarded as completely outdated when Romney said that russia was our biggest international threat. I see three options:
1. He really was just living in the cold war.
2. He was talking about something that we don't readily consider in the narrative- perhaps he was talking about their oil or their movements into fuller capitalism or something. He may have been trying to make a cogent point and got laughed down.
3. He was unusually prescient, either by luck or by knowledge.

I think it's a least considering that he knew enough to say something then. It may not be likely, but it is a question worth asking.

My take at the time was that Romney was warning about Russia regaining its superpower status.  After the end of the Cold War and dissolution of the Soviet Union, I think many people viewed Russia as a washed-up power that would pose no threat to the U.S. in the future.  However, Romney understood that Russia was still a great military and economic power and that their interests were not aligned with those of the U.S., and were potentially opposed to them.   Even when not actively an enemy, Russia has never (except as an ally during WW2 and perhaps during the Yeltsin administration) been a friend of the U.S.

[Frodo]

Conservatives urge Trump to grant pardons in Russia probe

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[Virginiá]

Conservatives urge Trump to grant pardons in Russia probe

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It really did only take less than a year for conservatives to become complete hypocrites on the "law and order" thing. When they say things like this, they are basically admitting they don't give two sh**ts what crimes Trump/his campaign committed. I don't get why anyone would want to go to bat for someone like Manafort either. The guy is a sleazy criminal through-and-through.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Hypothetically if Trump or any sitting President were to be indicted, what would the protocol be for the FBI? Would they bust in the White House at 5 am to do a pre dawn arrest? Would they arrange for the president to surrender himself to the FBI to avoid humiliation? Or maybe they would do a raid when the President was on vacation and far away from the white house.

[Hollywood756]

Hypothetically if Trump or any sitting President were to be indicted, what would the protocol be for the FBI? Would they bust in the White House at 5 am to do a pre dawn arrest? Would they arrange for the president to surrender himself to the FBI to avoid humiliation? Or maybe they would do a raid when the President was on vacation and far away from the white house.

There's still an open question about whether or not presidents can be arrested or indicted.  He can, anyway, merely pardon himself- at least of the federal charges.

The constitution allows for impeachment, which is the correct process, but impeachment doesn't require an indictment.

The bigger question is this: If the NY state charges are brought, and there is an order to arrest him... how does the secret service react?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Conservatives urge Trump to grant pardons in Russia probe

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If Abominable Donald Trump (R-Moscow) issues such pardons and is not impeached within the week, the United States is DONE. We can't have laws or a justice system when the executive freely ignores them at his whim.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The bigger question is this: If the NY state charges are brought, and there is an order to arrest him... how does the secret service react?

One might say that the Secret Service's mandate covers protecting the president from unlawful acts, and not lawful acts. There's a clear legal distinction between kidnapping and arresting a person. So, I'd say hat NY's law enforcement agencies would need a valid warrant.

[GeorgiaModerate]

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[ProudModerate2]

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If Mueller finds "irregularities" with Kushner's finances, I'm all most certain there will be damning information he also finds with trump's.
To be continued ....

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

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If Mueller finds "irregularities" with Kushner's finances, I'm all most certain there will be damning information he also finds with trump's.
To be continued ....

I expect the campaign's attempts at illegal collision, and the Orange Idiot's  knowlege of it, are almost a sideshow to this.  Don "Delusional" Trump's standard for conduct (break all the rules and lie about everything) have been on public display for years. The idea that he meticulously follows the law in his known  "deals" with people and organizations who are of questionable legality to begin with is laughable.

Look at Mueller's team and the White House's past efforts to confine or limit his investigation and it's obvious where things will go. The only questions are if our nation and our democracy survive.

Also, expect the usual suspects to start complaining that Mueller was only supposed to investigate Russia-related crime the moment they have a chance.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

The bigger question is this: If the NY state charges are brought, and there is an order to arrest him... how does the secret service react?

One might say that the Secret Service's mandate covers protecting the president from unlawful acts, and not lawful acts. There's a clear legal distinction between kidnapping and arresting a person. So, I'd say hat NY's law enforcement agencies would need a valid warrant.

Would NY state police be able to arrest Trump outside of NY state?

[SteveRogers]

Hypothetically if Trump or any sitting President were to be indicted, what would the protocol be for the FBI? Would they bust in the White House at 5 am to do a pre dawn arrest? Would they arrange for the president to surrender himself to the FBI to avoid humiliation? Or maybe they would do a raid when the President was on vacation and far away from the white house.

I’m pretty sure that whenever governors get indicted they usually get to arrange a time to surrender and be booked in at the police station. I imagine it would be pretty similar for the president. Presumably the secret service would demand to accompany him every step of the way and would want to guard his jail cell while he waits to bond out.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Hypothetically if Trump or any sitting President were to be indicted, what would the protocol be for the FBI? Would they bust in the White House at 5 am to do a pre dawn arrest? Would they arrange for the president to surrender himself to the FBI to avoid humiliation? Or maybe they would do a raid when the President was on vacation and far away from the white house.

I’m pretty sure that whenever governors get indicted they usually get to arrange a time to surrender and be booked in at the police station. I imagine it would be pretty similar for the president.

Governors tend to have competent administrative staff, and to not be delusional narcissists. I'll give 50/50 odds that IF indicted, the Twit-in-Chief gets perp-walked.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I think an indictment in office is unlikely.  It may be legal to indict a sitting President, but there's enough uncertainty to that question that most prosecutors may prefer to delay until the end of term or near it.

But if an indictment did occur, a perp-walk is really unlikely.  I think the prosecutor would have enough respect for the office of President, regardless of the individual occupying it, to refrain from such a spectacle.