NY: Trump on Trial!

[President Johnson]

It's also quite smart Biden didn't weigh in so far and just lets this unfold as he's busy with his daily business to govern.

Imagine how Trump would have reacted if Obama was indicted a few years ago.

[GP270watch]

Okay DOJ, now your turn.

[Sestak]

Those two aren't contradictory at all? He's staring his adversary in the eye.

I was talking about how you flip flop between liking Trump and not liking Trump.

I don't like Trump. I just think he's the best option we have.

You don't have to lie. You can say you want fascism because you're also a fascist. It's okay. We already know.

I'm a nationalist, not a fascist. I don't support authoritarian government for Americans. I support social libertarianism for citizens, and am anti-intervention/anti-foreign aid/anti-immigration/anti-free trade.

In other words, you're a Fascist.

Struggling to think of any fascist leaders who were/are social libertarians.

Are you…at all familiar with this poster’s views?!?!

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Bragg's office has also released a "statement of facts" which is a little more illuminating on the nature of the accusations.  

A few interesting details:
- It sounds like Trump actually had Cohen pay off another woman in addition to Daniels.  Maybe Karen McDougal?
- There's also mention of a doorman alleging Trump had an out-of-wedlock child who was almost paid off until the story was determined to be untrue.
- It seems Trump is only being charged for falsifying the compensation made to Cohen, not the money paid to the women
- Cohen was paid in monthly installments. This may be the reason there are 34 charges for multiple different payments. He was actually paid double what was initially agreed to so he could report it on his taxes as income and pay about 50% in taxes.
- The underlying crime is "violating election laws", i.e. "hiding damaging information from the voting public".  Not really clear what election law is alleged to by violated though.  The SOF bolds the words "in coordination with, and the direction of, a candidate for federal office" in citing Cohen's plea agreement.

[emailking]

It's also quite smart Biden didn't weigh in so far and just lets this unfold as he's busy with his daily business to govern.

This is beneath the dignity of Biden.

[ProudModerate2]

Okay DOJ, now your turn.

It's coming. Don't worry.
Georgia also.

[Horus]

Those two aren't contradictory at all? He's staring his adversary in the eye.

I was talking about how you flip flop between liking Trump and not liking Trump.

I don't like Trump. I just think he's the best option we have.

You don't have to lie. You can say you want fascism because you're also a fascist. It's okay. We already know.

I'm a nationalist, not a fascist. I don't support authoritarian government for Americans. I support social libertarianism for citizens, and am anti-intervention/anti-foreign aid/anti-immigration/anti-free trade.

In other words, you're a Fascist.

Struggling to think of any fascist leaders who were/are social libertarians.

Are you…at all familiar with this poster’s views?!?!

Fascism and social libertarianism cannot function together. It's impossible.

Name one example from history who is both fascist and socially libertarian policy wise.

[VBM]

Given these charges and Alvin Bragg record of having being weak on far more serious offenses , I don’t know how the argument can be made that these weren’t politically motivated . The precedent this opens up is gonna ruin American politics for a while to come

Why do you think that Trump should be above the law?

[ProudModerate2]

Those two aren't contradictory at all? He's staring his adversary in the eye.

I was talking about how you flip flop between liking Trump and not liking Trump.

I don't like Trump. I just think he's the best option we have.

You don't have to lie. You can say you want fascism because you're also a fascist. It's okay. We already know.

I'm a nationalist, not a fascist. I don't support authoritarian government for Americans. I support social libertarianism for citizens, and am anti-intervention/anti-foreign aid/anti-immigration/anti-free trade.

In other words, you're a Fascist.

Struggling to think of any fascist leaders who were/are social libertarians.

Are you…at all familiar with this poster’s views?!?!

Fascism and social libertarianism cannot function together. It's impossible.

People thought donald Buffoonery trump and the Republican party could "not function together" and be "impossible" ... but yet here we are today (for that last 8 years actually).

[Sestak]

Fascism and social libertarianism cannot function together. It's impossible.

Name one example from history who is both fascist and socially libertarian policy wise.

not suggesting the opposite, just noting this says nothing either way about PM’s assertion.

Anyway this is reaching realm of full off topic now.

[wbrocks67]

"The precedent this opens up is gonna ruin American politics for a while to come"

So the precedent is... politicians should be held accountable when they commit crimes? I mean this talking point is frankly ridiculous. Even more so when Republicans go on and on about crime and especially here in Philly - where our DA is regularly lambasted for "not holding criminals accountable" and then you have a full throated defense of Trump who committed a crime who apparently should... not be held accountable. So disastrously hypocritical.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The statute of limitations is 5 years and the latest date mentioned is December 5, 2017.

[Damocles]

"The precedent this opens up is gonna ruin American politics for a while to come"

So the precedent is... politicians should be held accountable when they commit crimes? I mean this talking point is frankly ridiculous. Even more so when Republicans go on and on about crime and especially here in Philly - where our DA is regularly lambasted for "not holding criminals accountable" and then you have a full throated defense of Trump who committed a crime who apparently should... not be held accountable. So disastrously hypocritical.

Yeah, but you can’t charge a cheesecake with a crime. It’s so rich and white that it would certainly clog up the courts for years with continual litigation.

[emailking]

Next hearing on the case is December dang. lol

[emailking]

The statute of limitations is 5 years and the latest date mentioned is December 5, 2017.

The bookkeeping extends into 2018 which is when the clock starts.

[Kung Fu Kenny]

DECEMBER?!

[Torie]

If the statute of limitations is 5 years, the last date I see in the indictment is December, 2017, in the 34th and last count, so that is more than 5 years ago. The idiot reporters of course did not ask Bragg the most salient question of all. The WAPO coverage did say that Cohen said Trump said to try to delay the hush money payment until after the election, which is good evidence that the hush money was all about the election, rather than family.

"THIRTY-FOURTH COUNT: AND THE GRAND JURY AFORESAID, by this indictment, further accuses the defendant of the crime of FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE, in violation of Penal Law §175.10, committed as follows: The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about December 5, 2017, with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof, made and caused a false entry in the business records of an enterprise, to wit, a Donald J. ... ."

So the indictment based on my quick scan seems to me to be fatally flawed right out of the box. Obviously as a non crimbo lawyer, I am missing something.

[oldtimer]

"The precedent this opens up is gonna ruin American politics for a while to come"

So the precedent is... politicians should be held accountable when they commit crimes? I mean this talking point is frankly ridiculous. Even more so when Republicans go on and on about crime and especially here in Philly - where our DA is regularly lambasted for "not holding criminals accountable" and then you have a full throated defense of Trump who committed a crime who apparently should... not be held accountable. So disastrously hypocritical.

The precedent established is that politicians can be prosecuted for political reasons by politicians of the opposite party regardless of the evidence, because:

1. In N.Y. the D.A. can indict anyone by simple majority of a Grand Jury without necessary presenting evidence.

2. The office of the D.A. is an elected office, therefore the D.A. is a politician in practice.

Welcome to the Can opening, now lets see the Worms.

[It’s so Joever]

I have one very busy day of school and work and Trump gets arrested then? Smh.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The statute of limitations is 5 years and the latest date mentioned is December 5, 2017.

The bookkeeping extends into 2018 which is when the clock starts.

2018 isn't mentioned while 2017 is mentioned 60 times. Seems a bit late.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Given these charges and Alvin Bragg record of having being weak on far more serious offenses , I don’t know how the argument can be made that these weren’t politically motivated . The precedent this opens up is gonna ruin American politics for a while to come

The precedents were already set (or broken) much earlier. Donald refused to sell or shutter his business, and likewise refused to place it in a blind trust. Instead, he chose to keep doing business - often in ways that had the appearance of corruption, and that were blatantly unconstitutional. Donald chose to ignore precedent and the Constitution in direct violation of his own Oath of Office. That he now faces conseqences from having done so rests upon him (and the party that had every chance to remove him, but declined to do so.)

[emailking]

DECEMBER?!

Yeah this is likely not going to trial until after the election.

[emailking]

The statute of limitations is 5 years and the latest date mentioned is December 5, 2017.

The bookkeeping extends into 2018 which is when the clock starts.

2018 isn't mentioned while 2017 is mentioned 60 times. Seems a bit late.

The 2017 fiscal year would get accounted for in 2018. The year doesn't need to appear in the indictment.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The statute of limitations is 5 years and the latest date mentioned is December 5, 2017.

The bookkeeping extends into 2018 which is when the clock starts.

2018 isn't mentioned while 2017 is mentioned 60 times. Seems a bit late.

The 2017 fiscal year would get accounted for in 2018. The year doesn't need to appear in the indictment.

I think they need some sort of date in order to still charge it.

[Minnesota Mike]

I'm not a lawyer so I will not comment on the merits of the case but I am struck by the lack of protests nationwide. We were told that indicting Trump would enrage half the nation but so far the reaction has been pretty much meh. Biggest protests happening now are against the TN Legislature.