Obama: maybe I was "10 or 20 years too early"

[gottsu]

Good read. Gave me a lot to think, but my remarks were similar to Obama's.

[TDAS04]

I think Obama was exactly eight years too early, while Clinton was exactly eight years too late.

100%

[gottsu]

I think Obama was exactly eight years too early, while Clinton was exactly eight years too late.

100%

Clinton wasn't late, it was situation like in 20s. People wanted to enjoy these Republican stabilization times, and no Democrat could interrupt their 12-year long party both in 20s and 80s.

[mvd10]

I guess I retract parts of my previous post with this post .

Look at Obama's coalition in 2008. Obama did better in wealthy suburbs without big demographical changes than Hillary and unlike Hillary Obama actually won or tied wealthy voters. While Obama won a lot of voters who didn't vote for Hillary, Obama's core support reflected Hillary's support in 2016. For a Democrat Obama had unprecedented support among postgraduates and wealthy voters and he won places that hadn't voted Democratic since 1964. He wasn't going to govern as a left-wing populist, a lot of his voters didn't even want him to do that. Obama 2008 might have been the gateway drug for the upscale Republicans who didn't vote for Trump. I strongly suspect many Romney-Clinton voters voted for Obama in 2008 (and outside of Appalachia where coal played a huge issue many Obama-Trump voters probably voted for Bush). Bush vs Gore in 2000 and Obama vs McCain in 2008 really were the first precursors to what happened in 2016 (wealthier people trending massively D and 'the creative class' being the core Democratic constituency), 2004 and 2012 look like (temporary?) reversions to the mean (with the exception of coal county I suppose) once you ignore demographic changes.

Obama still managed to disappoint Wall Street enough to make sure 85% of Wall Street donations went to Romney btw, so it's not like he governed like a total DLC Democrat.

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

The burning hatred for Obama among socialists for only giving them 90% of what they wanted never ceases to astound me.

[WritOfCertiorari]

The burning hatred for Obama among socialists for only giving them 90% of what they wanted never ceases to astound me.

What the hell are you talking about? Socialism is the workers taking control of the factories. When did Obama give socialists "90%" of what they want? Do you even know what a socialist is? Do you believe that socialism is when the government does things?

[Blair]

The burning hatred for Obama among socialists for only giving them 90% of what they wanted never ceases to astound me.

Or the fact that America had one of the most ambitious economic stimulus programs after the recessions. Ofc there were flaws and nuances but Obama’s handling of the Economy between 09-10 shouldn’t be overrated.

I’m surprised no-one jumped on Jfern comment about Obama not being ‘black enough’... all I’d say is read Ta-Nehisi Coates My President was Black.

Besides the claim that Obama should have done more forgets the entire saga with actually getting the 60 votes (Franken, Kennedy dying, Libermen being evil etc) The Democratic Caucus in 2009 was objectively a lot more Conservative than the current one.

[mencken]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

But Trump is the one whose ego requires him to be surrounded by sycophants spewing ridiculous praise.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

He didn't achieve the closing the gap between poor Latinos and Blacks with whites; however,  he should of pushed immigration reform. That was his mistake, more voters for Democrats, when he had 60 votes.

The next Democrat will do that.

[Xing]

No, he was just naive to think his victory in and of itself would unite the country.

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

The burning hatred for Obama among socialists for only giving them 90% of what they wanted never ceases to astound me.

What the hell are you talking about? Socialism is the workers taking control of the factories. When did Obama give socialists "90%" of what they want? Do you even know what a socialist is? Do you believe that socialism is when the government does things?

I meant 90% of what they wanted from presidency.

[gerritcole]

If he had reached out to Congress once in a while and wasn't intellectually distant, his presidency might have had more tangible results

[KingSweden]

No, he was just naive to think his victory in and of itself would unite the country.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The burning hatred for Obama among socialists for only giving them 90% of what they wanted never ceases to astound me.

Or the fact that America had one of the most ambitious economic stimulus programs after the recessions. Ofc there were flaws and nuances but Obama’s handling of the Economy between 09-10 shouldn’t be overrated.

I’m surprised no-one jumped on Jfern comment about Obama not being ‘black enough’... all I’d say is read Ta-Nehisi Coates My President was Black.

Besides the claim that Obama should have done more forgets the entire saga with actually getting the 60 votes (Franken, Kennedy dying, Libermen being evil etc) The Democratic Caucus in 2009 was objectively a lot more Conservative than the current one.

I didn't imply anything about how black Obama was, I implied that his being black was not the issue. I like Cornel West, but I'm not going there about how black Obama is.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

I think Obama was exactly eight years too early, while Clinton was exactly eight years too late.

We could have just finished 8 years of President Hillary Clinton, and now we would be enjoying 8 years of President Obama. Hillary/Obama would have been a great ticket in 2008.

[Doimper]

Being succeeded by Donald Trump will be one of the defining marks of Barack Obama's presidency, and a lot of ink is going to be spilled over why it happened.

[Alabama_Indy10]

The other way to look at this is that the existence of the electoral college is a couple hundred years too late.

Ugh. Here we go again

[Blair]

If he had reached out to Congress once in a while and wasn't intellectually distant, his presidency might have had more tangible results

What does the first part actually mean? Like is there an actual example from his first term where he didn’t reach out?

He gave massively benefits to red state democrats with Obamacare, spend the entire summer with John Boehner trying to fix the grand bargain and did virtually all of his 2009-2012 stuff through Congress.

It’s obvious that Obama should have done better with congress but I can’t see how this applies as anything other than a talking point.

[Sir Mohamed]

If he had reached out to Congress once in a while and wasn't intellectually distant, his presidency might have had more tangible results

What does the first part actually mean? Like is there an actual example from his first term where he didn’t reach out?

He gave massively benefits to red state democrats with Obamacare, spend the entire summer with John Boehner trying to fix the grand bargain and did virtually all of his 2009-2012 stuff through Congress.

It’s obvious that Obama should have done better with congress but I can’t see how this applies as anything other than a talking point.

I agree with Blair. Obama should have done better with congress, but sorry, the main responsibilty is with the GOP and its hardcore right faction. Their only program was to oppose Obama, too often for racist reasons. The 2013 immigration bill for example had broad support even among senate GOPers, but Boehner felt compelled to block a vote because of the Freedom Caucus.

[Badger]

He pushed too far in being a neoliberal not in being a black President.

Aside from America’s standard dumbass hardcore racists, which aren’t a majority, the folks who disliked Obama were either partisan Republicans, were already alienated from the political process, or felt betrayed by Mr. Austerity (aka Obama). His failure was sticking too closely to the status quo, too willingly compromising with Republicans, and failing to be as ambitious as Americans wanted and needed him to be.

Well, the most ambitious thing he ever did hurt his popularity for years on end. Obama made mistakes but in the end he did seem to strike the right balance between cautious and ambitious. Some work was inevitably going to be left for his successors - with Obama laying the foundation.

Obama’s “most ambitious” plan was sh** and deserved to be reviled.

It's amazing when people assume that Obama had an inch to spare and getting his health care plan passed. 60 democratic voters the Senate, with rebellious Prix like Nelson and Lieberman, a measure that passed the house only through reconciliation and fancy legislator parliamentary tricks. Required and, on it in the middle of a recession when many Americans justifiably said he should concentrate entirely on job creation, and then it passed by a majority in the US Supreme Court. What the hell else was he supposed to do? Assassinate Lieberman so his replacement wouldn't block the public option?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

As a political organized/party leader Obama was largely unsuccessfully. He was great at running himself for the Presidency, but the party in general was left in much worse shape. First he tossed Dean's 50 states strategy and elevated mediocre leader such as Kaine for chair, then pretty much ceded control to the Clintonites. What I find particularly puzzling is the President being fine with his own party chair (DWS) fighting him over one of his signature policy decisions (Iran deal).

[pbrower2a]

One historical theory that has nothing to do with ideology suggests that Barack Obama is ahead of his time due to a temperament related to the time in which he was born. It has little to do with his ideology and far more to do with his personality.

If anything, Barack Obama is a liberal analogue of Dwight Eisenhower, a stickler for precedent and protocol, someone unlikely to jump onto any demagogic bandwagon. Both are known for one huge spending project (the Interstate Highway System, Obamacare) and similar responses to a civil-rights issue of the time (school desegregation, same-sex marriage) -- on those, it was simply "It's the law, folks!" Both were scrupulously honest and had no tolerance for corruption or cronyism. Neither had any flair for drama in politics, Eisenhower ignoring it and Obama thinking it troublesome. zzhBoth were incredibly inept at building support for any sort of machine to outlast their Presidencies.   Ignoring differences of curriculum vitae between the two (it seems to be less important) with Eisenhower as the war hero and Obama being simply 'good officer material'. Both came from generations heavily derided for amorality, money-lust, and lack of intellectual seriousness.  

The difference between them? (No, not ethnicity) is the times in which they were President.  Eisenhower became President after the great Crisis of the Twentieth Century (Great Depression and the Second World War) was over. Obama became President during such a Crisis, as the economic meltdown of 2007-2009 looked after a year and a half that it could be as severe as the economic meltdown beginning in September 1929. America dealt differently with the economic meltdown of 2007-2009, backing the banks about a year after the meltdown began.

Obama seemed like the sort of person to get us out of a Crisis -- until Trump came along. I remember JFK, successor of Eisenhower -- and all that Donald Trump has in common with JFK among the Presidents is a sordid record with women.  We are now in a huge Crisis involving the foundations of political process and social norms about eighty years after the Crisis of 1940 (Great Depression and Second World War) and 160 years after the Crisis of 1860 (potential dissolution of the USA over slavery and potential abolition of slavery).  A prior dangerous time was the American Revolution.

The timing of these cycles reflects the physical reality of the mass-extinction of childhood memories of adults in their eighties, with the last of their age dying, going senile, or going grossly feeble.

[Coolface Sock #42069]

He pushed too far in being a neoliberal not in being a black President.

🙄

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

He pushed too far in being a neoliberal not in being a black President.

Aside from America’s standard dumbass hardcore racists, which aren’t a majority, the folks who disliked Obama were either partisan Republicans, were already alienated from the political process, or felt betrayed by Mr. Austerity (aka Obama). His failure was sticking too closely to the status quo, too willingly compromising with Republicans, and failing to be as ambitious as Americans wanted and needed him to be.

Well, the most ambitious thing he ever did hurt his popularity for years on end. Obama made mistakes but in the end he did seem to strike the right balance between cautious and ambitious. Some work was inevitably going to be left for his successors - with Obama laying the foundation.

Obama’s “most ambitious” plan was sh** and deserved to be reviled.

It's amazing when people assume that Obama had an inch to spare and getting his health care plan passed. 60 democratic voters the Senate, with rebellious Prix like Nelson and Lieberman, a measure that passed the house only through reconciliation and fancy legislator parliamentary tricks. Required and, on it in the middle of a recession when many Americans justifiably said he should concentrate entirely on job creation, and then it passed by a majority in the US Supreme Court. What the hell else was he supposed to do? Assassinate Lieberman so his replacement wouldn't block the public option?

Oh yes, Obama needed 60 Democratic Senators to get 50 votes for reconciliation.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

As a political organized/party leader Obama was largely unsuccessfully. He was great at running himself for the Presidency, but the party in general was left in much worse shape. First he tossed Dean's 50 states strategy and elevated mediocre leader such as Kaine for chair, then pretty much ceded control to the Clintonites. What I find particularly puzzling is the President being fine with his own party chair (DWS) fighting him over one of his signature policy decisions (Iran deal).

Yeah that's probably Obama's biggest mistake in terms of politics: he let the Clinton faction run the Democratic party into the ground.