Russia Likely Picked Our Secretary of State

[Frodo]

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Newsweek

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

[Famous Mortimer]

Thank you, Putin.

[Mr. Smith]

Good, Tillerson's one of the more competent picks yet.

[Ashley Biden's Diary]

Thank you, Putin.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

Romney was right and still is.

[Doimper]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

[Virginiá]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

I miss the days when the Democratic party was clearly the lesser of two evils and wasn't starting a new cold war and red scare to distract people from how terrible the Democratic party is. All this claiming that Wikileaks are Russian operatives so that we can't see the e-mails or some nonsense.  Are you really saying that Obama screwed up by not being as crazy a hawk as Romney in 2012?  I held my nose and voted for Obama that year, but certainly wouldn't have if he had tried to out hawk Romney.

[YE]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, but Jfern doesn't think Russia hacked the election if I had to guess at this point, and thinks its hypocritical that Dems have gone from dovish to trying to create in what his view is a new Cold War, and also think it's hypocritical that we accuse Russia for interfering in our election when we interfere in other countries elections. I don't really agree because 1) Russia is trying to influence the democratic process, which isn't ok no matter the whataboutism and 2) Russia needs to pay some sort of price and you could do that without starting a war.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, but Jfern doesn't think Russia hacked the election if I had to guess at this point, and thinks its hypocritical that Dems have gone from dovish to trying to create in what his view is a new Cold War, and also think it's hypocritical that we accuse Russia for interfering in our election when we interfere in other countries elections. I don't really agree because 1) Russia is trying to influence the democratic process, which isn't ok no matter the whataboutism and 2) Russia needs to pay some sort of price and you could do that without starting a war.

What about the Saudi princes who own billions of dollars worth of CNN? I bet a lot of Correct The Record employees were from India. There was some Ukrainian support for Hillary. The Israeli support for Trump was proven. There was China for Bill Clinton in 1996. I'm sure one can go on and on about foreign influence, but we only hear about Russia.

[America Needs R'hllor]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, but Jfern doesn't think Russia hacked the election if I had to guess at this point, and thinks its hypocritical that Dems have gone from dovish to trying to create in what his view is a new Cold War, and also think it's hypocritical that we accuse Russia for interfering in our election when we interfere in other countries elections. I don't really agree because 1) Russia is trying to influence the democratic process, which isn't ok no matter the whataboutism and 2) Russia needs to pay some sort of price and you could do that without starting a war.

What about the Saudi princes who own billions of dollars worth of CNN? I bet a lot of Correct The Record employees were from India. There was some Ukrainian support for Hillary. The Israeli support for Trump was proven. There was China for Bill Clinton in 1996. I'm sure one can go on and on about foreign influence, but we only hear about Russia.

Oh, come on. You're fully aware of the fact that there's a huge difference between rooting for a certain candidate and actually working hard to get him elected by conning the people of the country where you're intervening. Russia was absolutely proven to be systematically using fake news and hacking to disparage Clinton and the Democratic Party. It's a fact, and their involvement goes much deeper than that.

[Landslide Lyndon]

If you were to read jfern's posts about Russia, you'd be hard-pressed to discern any difference between them and Trump's tweets on that matter.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, but Jfern doesn't think Russia hacked the election if I had to guess at this point, and thinks its hypocritical that Dems have gone from dovish to trying to create in what his view is a new Cold War, and also think it's hypocritical that we accuse Russia for interfering in our election when we interfere in other countries elections. I don't really agree because 1) Russia is trying to influence the democratic process, which isn't ok no matter the whataboutism and 2) Russia needs to pay some sort of price and you could do that without starting a war.

What about the Saudi princes who own billions of dollars worth of CNN? I bet a lot of Correct The Record employees were from India. There was some Ukrainian support for Hillary. The Israeli support for Trump was proven. There was China for Bill Clinton in 1996. I'm sure one can go on and on about foreign influence, but we only hear about Russia.

Oh, come on. You're fully aware of the fact that there's a huge difference between rooting for a certain candidate and actually working hard to get him elected by conning the people of the country where you're intervening. Russia was absolutely proven to be systematically using fake news and hacking to disparage Clinton and the Democratic Party. It's a fact, and their involvement goes much deeper than that.

All the fake news I saw was from Correct The Record. Were all of their employees Americans? I doubt it. There's certainly some talk of Ukraine being connected there, but I'll leave the crazy conspiracy theories for you guys.

[Beet]

The US needs to protect it's national integrity. Another country can't be allowed to interfere in our elections. It's more a matter of self-defense, something every country should be entitled to, including the U.S.

[America Needs R'hllor]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, but Jfern doesn't think Russia hacked the election if I had to guess at this point, and thinks its hypocritical that Dems have gone from dovish to trying to create in what his view is a new Cold War, and also think it's hypocritical that we accuse Russia for interfering in our election when we interfere in other countries elections. I don't really agree because 1) Russia is trying to influence the democratic process, which isn't ok no matter the whataboutism and 2) Russia needs to pay some sort of price and you could do that without starting a war.

What about the Saudi princes who own billions of dollars worth of CNN? I bet a lot of Correct The Record employees were from India. There was some Ukrainian support for Hillary. The Israeli support for Trump was proven. There was China for Bill Clinton in 1996. I'm sure one can go on and on about foreign influence, but we only hear about Russia.

Oh, come on. You're fully aware of the fact that there's a huge difference between rooting for a certain candidate and actually working hard to get him elected by conning the people of the country where you're intervening. Russia was absolutely proven to be systematically using fake news and hacking to disparage Clinton and the Democratic Party. It's a fact, and their involvement goes much deeper than that.

All the fake news I saw was from Correct The Record. Were all of their employees Americans? I doubt it. There's certainly some talk of Ukraine being connected there, but I'll leave the crazy conspiracy theories for you guys.

I know you're not a big fan of U.S. security agencies like the FBI, but please. These agencies have all agreed that Russia was deeply involved in trying to turn the U.S. election, and with all due respect, each of them has much more tools and knowledge than you ever will.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, but Jfern doesn't think Russia hacked the election if I had to guess at this point, and thinks its hypocritical that Dems have gone from dovish to trying to create in what his view is a new Cold War, and also think it's hypocritical that we accuse Russia for interfering in our election when we interfere in other countries elections. I don't really agree because 1) Russia is trying to influence the democratic process, which isn't ok no matter the whataboutism and 2) Russia needs to pay some sort of price and you could do that without starting a war.

What about the Saudi princes who own billions of dollars worth of CNN? I bet a lot of Correct The Record employees were from India. There was some Ukrainian support for Hillary. The Israeli support for Trump was proven. There was China for Bill Clinton in 1996. I'm sure one can go on and on about foreign influence, but we only hear about Russia.

Oh, come on. You're fully aware of the fact that there's a huge difference between rooting for a certain candidate and actually working hard to get him elected by conning the people of the country where you're intervening. Russia was absolutely proven to be systematically using fake news and hacking to disparage Clinton and the Democratic Party. It's a fact, and their involvement goes much deeper than that.

All the fake news I saw was from Correct The Record. Were all of their employees Americans? I doubt it. There's certainly some talk of Ukraine being connected there, but I'll leave the crazy conspiracy theories for you guys.

I know you're not a big fan of U.S. security agencies like the FBI, but please. These agencies have all agreed that Russia was deeply involved in trying to turn the U.S. election, and with all due respect, each of them has much more tools and knowledge than you ever will.

In 2003, we heard about how all the intelligence agencies had confirmed that Iraq had WMD. Yeah, I'm not buying it. There's zero evidence that Russia was involved in the DNC leak. And the 13 Russians who were indicted were some serious small fry. And there's the irony that the Clinton administration bragged about influencing the re-election of the guy who picked Putin as his successor. Putin sucks, but Bill Clinton isn't exactly free of blame for him being in power. Also, your pal Bush said he looked into his soul and said he was a good person.

[Landslide Lyndon]

In 2003, we heard about how all the intelligence agencies had confirmed that Iraq had WMD. Yeah, I'm not buying it. There's zero evidence that Russia was involved in the DNC leak. And the 13 Russians who were indicted were some serious small fry. And there's the irony that the Clinton administration bragged about influencing the re-election of the guy who picked Putin as his successor. Putin sucks, but Bill Clinton isn't exactly free of blame for him being in power. Also, your pal Bush said he looked into his soul and said he was a good person.

[America Needs R'hllor]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, but Jfern doesn't think Russia hacked the election if I had to guess at this point, and thinks its hypocritical that Dems have gone from dovish to trying to create in what his view is a new Cold War, and also think it's hypocritical that we accuse Russia for interfering in our election when we interfere in other countries elections. I don't really agree because 1) Russia is trying to influence the democratic process, which isn't ok no matter the whataboutism and 2) Russia needs to pay some sort of price and you could do that without starting a war.

What about the Saudi princes who own billions of dollars worth of CNN? I bet a lot of Correct The Record employees were from India. There was some Ukrainian support for Hillary. The Israeli support for Trump was proven. There was China for Bill Clinton in 1996. I'm sure one can go on and on about foreign influence, but we only hear about Russia.

Oh, come on. You're fully aware of the fact that there's a huge difference between rooting for a certain candidate and actually working hard to get him elected by conning the people of the country where you're intervening. Russia was absolutely proven to be systematically using fake news and hacking to disparage Clinton and the Democratic Party. It's a fact, and their involvement goes much deeper than that.

All the fake news I saw was from Correct The Record. Were all of their employees Americans? I doubt it. There's certainly some talk of Ukraine being connected there, but I'll leave the crazy conspiracy theories for you guys.

I know you're not a big fan of U.S. security agencies like the FBI, but please. These agencies have all agreed that Russia was deeply involved in trying to turn the U.S. election, and with all due respect, each of them has much more tools and knowledge than you ever will.

In 2003, we heard about how all the intelligence agencies had confirmed that Iraq had WMD. Yeah, I'm not buying it. There's zero evidence that Russia was involved in the DNC leak. And the 13 Russians who were indicted were some serious small fry. And there's the irony that the Clinton administration bragged about influencing the re-election of the guy who picked Putin as his successor. Putin sucks, but Bill Clinton isn't exactly free of blame for him being in power. Also, your pal Bush said he looked into his soul and said he was a good person.

Bush isn't my pal, though I'd imagine my life would be much more comfortable if he was. You can disbelieve intelligence agencies, but right now it's their word against the word of... who? Putin? Trump? You? There's no reason not to believe them, and claiming that Assange isn't very blatantly a Putin puppet is ignoring reality.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, but Jfern doesn't think Russia hacked the election if I had to guess at this point, and thinks its hypocritical that Dems have gone from dovish to trying to create in what his view is a new Cold War, and also think it's hypocritical that we accuse Russia for interfering in our election when we interfere in other countries elections. I don't really agree because 1) Russia is trying to influence the democratic process, which isn't ok no matter the whataboutism and 2) Russia needs to pay some sort of price and you could do that without starting a war.

What about the Saudi princes who own billions of dollars worth of CNN? I bet a lot of Correct The Record employees were from India. There was some Ukrainian support for Hillary. The Israeli support for Trump was proven. There was China for Bill Clinton in 1996. I'm sure one can go on and on about foreign influence, but we only hear about Russia.

Oh, come on. You're fully aware of the fact that there's a huge difference between rooting for a certain candidate and actually working hard to get him elected by conning the people of the country where you're intervening. Russia was absolutely proven to be systematically using fake news and hacking to disparage Clinton and the Democratic Party. It's a fact, and their involvement goes much deeper than that.

All the fake news I saw was from Correct The Record. Were all of their employees Americans? I doubt it. There's certainly some talk of Ukraine being connected there, but I'll leave the crazy conspiracy theories for you guys.

I know you're not a big fan of U.S. security agencies like the FBI, but please. These agencies have all agreed that Russia was deeply involved in trying to turn the U.S. election, and with all due respect, each of them has much more tools and knowledge than you ever will.

In 2003, we heard about how all the intelligence agencies had confirmed that Iraq had WMD. Yeah, I'm not buying it. There's zero evidence that Russia was involved in the DNC leak. And the 13 Russians who were indicted were some serious small fry. And there's the irony that the Clinton administration bragged about influencing the re-election of the guy who picked Putin as his successor. Putin sucks, but Bill Clinton isn't exactly free of blame for him being in power. Also, your pal Bush said he looked into his soul and said he was a good person.

Bush isn't my pal, though I'd imagine my life would be much more comfortable if he was. You can disbelieve intelligence agencies, but right now it's their word against the word of... who? Putin? Trump? You? There's no reason not to believe them, and claiming that Assange isn't very blatantly a Putin puppet is ignoring reality.

Where's that Iraq WMD? Yeah, lets not get into another multi-trillion mistake because of propaganda that they invented. As for Assange, criticizing the foreign policy of the US doesn't make you a Putin puppet. A lot of Latin American countries are unhappy with the US foreign policy, so it makes since that Ecuador took him in. Ecuador isn't super anti US though, they actually use the US dollar as currency.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

Romney was right and still is.

The 2012 campaign was pre-Crimea annexation, pre-Ukrainian civil war, and prior to Russia being kicked out of the G8 due to these events.

I was more inclined to disagree with Romney in 2012 than I'm now. So, I'm willing to admit that the Mittster was more... "prescient"... on this matter than I was.

[Orser67]

It's amazing to me how many people, even today, will defend an autocratic regime that has systematically violated civil liberties, attempted to undermine democratic processes at home and abroad (in several countries, not just the U.S.), and has outright invaded two of its neighbors (Ukraine and Georgia) in the last ten years. It's outright naive to believe that Russia wouldn't, or couldn't, meddle in U.S. politics.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's amazing to me how many people, even today, will defend an autocratic regime that has systematically violated civil liberties, attempted to undermine democratic processes at home and abroad (in several countries, not just the U.S.), and has outright invaded two of its neighbors (Ukraine and Georgia) in the last ten years. It's outright naive to believe that Russia wouldn't, or couldn't, meddle in U.S. politics.

They are people who resent the fact that the West won the Cold War and now they support every possible entity that tries to upend that post-1989 status quo.
Heck, some of them like Greenwald even support ISIS.

[HAnnA MArin County]

This may be a bullet well dodged. That's one of the few redeeming qualities about Trump: he exposes "good" people for the hypocritical, self-serving, pompous cockroaches that they really are (or as Rick Wilson appropriately put it, "Everything Trump touches dies"). You really think that a Secretary of State Mitt Romney would be harsh to his boss's puppet master? Gimme a break. Romney would drop to his knees for Putin quicker than he did for Trump. The strange adoration that some have for him on this forum is nauseating. If anyone needs to go into the woods and take up knitting, it's this man.

P.S. You all trying to "convince" jfern that Russia is bad is as pointless as trying to make Trump see the light on the issue. Like the orange moron at the White House Mar-a-Lago, no matter how much evidence is produced, he's not going to believe it because it undermines his core theory that Hillary lost because she's a "neoliberal something something warmongering something corporatist something something Goldman Sachs something transcripts" Satan Incarnate. Putin could come out and publicly admit that he interfered in the election with the sole intention of defeating Hillary and jfern would still have his head buried deep in the sand and be spouting off his typical nonsense that Debbie Wasserman Schultz, John Podesta, and the DNC are the bigger threats to democracy. Best way to deal with him is just to ignore him when it involves anything Russia/Hillary related because you know he's voluntarily not living in reality on that subject and is just going to use more of the same ole tired, right-wing Russian propagandist talking points that they use over at the mother ship.

[Mr. Reactionary]

It's amazing to me how many people, even today, will defend an autocratic regime that has systematically violated civil liberties, attempted to undermine democratic processes at home and abroad (in several countries, not just the U.S.), and has outright invaded two of its neighbors (Ukraine and Georgia) in the last ten years. It's outright naive to believe that Russia wouldn't, or couldn't, meddle in U.S. politics.

I dont think the argument is really that Russia couldnt or wouldnt meddle, just that they didnt (other than the negligible facebook ads thing). I definitely wouldnt say that is "hacking the election" given how small the alleged facebook ad budget was.

And now we get this thread which is titled to suggest the senate actually didnt vote ti confirm tillerson.