Russia Likely Picked Our Secretary of State

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's amazing to me how many people, even today, will defend an autocratic regime that has systematically violated civil liberties, attempted to undermine democratic processes at home and abroad (in several countries, not just the U.S.), and has outright invaded two of its neighbors (Ukraine and Georgia) in the last ten years. It's outright naive to believe that Russia wouldn't, or couldn't, meddle in U.S. politics.

I dont think the argument is really that Russia couldnt or wouldnt meddle, just that they didnt (other than the negligible facebook ads thing). I definitely wouldnt say that is "hacking the election" given how small the alleged facebook ad budget was.

And now we get this thread which is titled to suggest the senate actually didnt vote ti confirm tillerson.

Russia hacked voter registration sites in at least seven states. And that's what we know until now, with the investigation still going on.
But yeah, keep repeating whatever garbage Hannity feeds your little mind.

[pbrower2a]

Russia has gone from authoritarian Bolshevism to authoritarian crony capitalism. Putin may have learned that Marxism is no longer applicable as a means of accelerating the growth of economic power of his country, but he stands for as oppressive a political order as was Communism in the Brezhnev era. His Russian nationalism is as strong as ever, and he wants to spread Muscovite influence beyond the boundaries of the Russia stripped of the old 'constituent republics' of the Soviet Union other than the Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic.

He found vulnerabilities in America that the Commies could never exploit -- personal greed and vanity incompatible with Communist ideology, but 100% compatible with an authoritarian order of crony capitalism. An amoral, intellectually-hollow right-wing demagogue like Donald Trump who believes in nothing other than his gain, vanity, and indulgence is far more useful than someone more principled, like Obama or even Romney.

Donald Trump is a 'useful idiot' for Putin as he never would have been for Brezhnev. But he is also incompatible with decades of American political norms, and that will be his undoing as a leader. People incompatible with his baby steps toward tyranny,  despotism, or even authoritarian rule cling to political traditions that they used top assume were beyond question. Now those traditions are under assault.     

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

This may be a bullet well dodged. That's one of the few redeeming qualities about Trump: he exposes "good" people for the hypocritical, self-serving, pompous cockroaches that they really are (or as Rick Wilson appropriately put it, "Everything Trump touches dies"). You really think that a Secretary of State Mitt Romney would be harsh to his boss's puppet master? Gimme a break. Romney would drop to his knees for Putin quicker than he did for Trump. The strange adoration that some have for him on this forum is nauseating. If anyone needs to go into the woods and take up knitting, it's this man.

P.S. You all trying to "convince" jfern that Russia is bad is as pointless as trying to make Trump see the light on the issue. Like the orange moron at the White House Mar-a-Lago, no matter how much evidence is produced, he's not going to believe it because it undermines his core theory that Hillary lost because she's a "neoliberal something something warmongering something corporatist something something Goldman Sachs something transcripts" Satan Incarnate. Putin could come out and publicly admit that he interfered in the election with the sole intention of defeating Hillary and jfern would still have his head buried deep in the sand and be spouting off his typical nonsense that Debbie Wasserman Schultz, John Podesta, and the DNC are the bigger threats to democracy. Best way to deal with him is just to ignore him when it involves anything Russia/Hillary related because you know he's voluntarily not living in reality on that subject and is just going to use more of the same ole tired, right-wing Russian propagandist talking points that they use over at the mother ship.

Putin is a bad person. But stop using him as a scapegoat for everything. Hillary lost because she was Hillary, not because of Russia.

[IndustrialJustice]

LOL at thinking Trump was ever going to pick Romney.

[Sir Mohamed]

This may be a bullet well dodged. That's one of the few redeeming qualities about Trump: he exposes "good" people for the hypocritical, self-serving, pompous cockroaches that they really are (or as Rick Wilson appropriately put it, "Everything Trump touches dies"). You really think that a Secretary of State Mitt Romney would be harsh to his boss's puppet master? Gimme a break. Romney would drop to his knees for Putin quicker than he did for Trump. The strange adoration that some have for him on this forum is nauseating. If anyone needs to go into the woods and take up knitting, it's this man.

P.S. You all trying to "convince" jfern that Russia is bad is as pointless as trying to make Trump see the light on the issue. Like the orange moron at the White House Mar-a-Lago, no matter how much evidence is produced, he's not going to believe it because it undermines his core theory that Hillary lost because she's a "neoliberal something something warmongering something corporatist something something Goldman Sachs something transcripts" Satan Incarnate. Putin could come out and publicly admit that he interfered in the election with the sole intention of defeating Hillary and jfern would still have his head buried deep in the sand and be spouting off his typical nonsense that Debbie Wasserman Schultz, John Podesta, and the DNC are the bigger threats to democracy. Best way to deal with him is just to ignore him when it involves anything Russia/Hillary related because you know he's voluntarily not living in reality on that subject and is just going to use more of the same ole tired, right-wing Russian propagandist talking points that they use over at the mother ship.

Putin is a bad person. But stop using him as a scapegoat for everything. Hillary lost because she was Hillary, not because of Russia.

Whether Russian meddling switched the election to Trump is hardly to answer and of the great what-if questions. But it is evident that the Russian government interfered in the election, mainly through cyber warfare, to the Trumpster's benefit. And it's kind of laughable to discredit the entire Intelligence because they were wrong on something else 15 years ago.

[Fight for Trump]

Even if this is true, it means Russia vetoed Romney, not picked Tillerson.

[Joey1996]

Russia made me to eat cereal for breakfast. Damn ruskies, I really wanted oatmeal!

[krazen1211]

Mr. Putin is a great friend and we should be proud to have his support.

[Joey1996]

I remember when right wingers told me I worked for Soros, now dems say I work for Putin. Waiting for my check from both 😠

[Beet]

Soros and Putin are both horrible people. Not surprising krazen is in the latter's camp.

[Fight for Trump]

Mr. Putin is a great friend and we should be proud to have his support.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Mr. Putin is a great friend and we should be proud to have his support.

Has your kiddie diddler conceded yet?

[Orser67]

It's amazing to me how many people, even today, will defend an autocratic regime that has systematically violated civil liberties, attempted to undermine democratic processes at home and abroad (in several countries, not just the U.S.), and has outright invaded two of its neighbors (Ukraine and Georgia) in the last ten years. It's outright naive to believe that Russia wouldn't, or couldn't, meddle in U.S. politics.

I dont think the argument is really that Russia couldnt or wouldnt meddle, just that they didnt (other than the negligible facebook ads thing). I definitely wouldnt say that is "hacking the election" given how small the alleged facebook ad budget was.

And now we get this thread which is titled to suggest the senate actually didnt vote ti confirm tillerson.

So do you think that Mueller's recent indictment of 13 Russians has no basis? And what about the DNC hacking?

[Free Bird]

<takes Christopher Steele as a serious source

[GoTfan]

I remember when right wingers told me I worked for Soros, now dems say I work for Putin. Waiting for my check from both 😠

[Kingpoleon]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

who care

That post really does encapsulate the major criticisms of him for at least as long as I've been on the Atlas. Like, I get it. Obama criticized Romney for acting like Russia is a major enemy still. He was wrong. Obama also really dropped the ball by not realizing what was going on in 2016 and then acting too late, and ineffectively when he did. He let Republicans and Russia walk all over us (and Democrats). I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm pretty sure most users here are aware of these things...

...but why keep bringing it up? What does it add? jfern does this constantly, and with a number of other things. He brings up stuff that he feels are hypocritical or perhaps serve as a "gotcha" to the person in question (and with Hillary, often NOT the person in question...), and he'll do it even when it adds nothing to the thread and often has little to do with the subject at hand. This was always and still is my primary issue with jfern - it's like all that runs through his head is negativity and how persons x, y and z are hypocrites or liars or whatever. This constant score keeping where his sole reason for existing is to make sure people are aware of their transgressions or fumbles.

Anyway, I'll just end that rant here (or maybe not, seeing as I'm easy to prod into arguments). I'm just tired of seeing the same Obama: Russia is so 20th century thing constantly brought up in discussions where it serves no useful purpose. We get it. He screwed up!

If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, but Jfern doesn't think Russia hacked the election if I had to guess at this point, and thinks its hypocritical that Dems have gone from dovish to trying to create in what his view is a new Cold War, and also think it's hypocritical that we accuse Russia for interfering in our election when we interfere in other countries elections. I don't really agree because 1) Russia is trying to influence the democratic process, which isn't ok no matter the whataboutism and 2) Russia needs to pay some sort of price and you could do that without starting a war.

What about the Saudi princes who own billions of dollars worth of CNN? I bet a lot of Correct The Record employees were from India. There was some Ukrainian support for Hillary. The Israeli support for Trump was proven. There was China for Bill Clinton in 1996. I'm sure one can go on and on about foreign influence, but we only hear about Russia.

Oh, come on. You're fully aware of the fact that there's a huge difference between rooting for a certain candidate and actually working hard to get him elected by conning the people of the country where you're intervening. Russia was absolutely proven to be systematically using fake news and hacking to disparage Clinton and the Democratic Party. It's a fact, and their involvement goes much deeper than that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy

China bought and paid for Clinton’s ‘96 Campaign. A former member of the state ethics commission in the 1990s has told me that besides the ~$5 million publicly known, as much as fifty or a hundred million dollars may have been donated through General Ji Shingde. Johnny Chang, one of their middle men, claimed the Chinese government tried to assassinate him three times and the FBI foiled it each time.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=13995

[Meclazine for Israel]

I dont think Trump is smart enough to collude with the Russians.

The only collusion at the top levels of Government was the FBI and DOJ trying hard to get Hillary elected.

[Frodo]

<takes Christopher Steele as a serious source

Which part of the original dossier did you find untrue?

[Sir Mohamed]

Mr. Putin is a great friend and we should be proud to have his support.

Such a great friend that he murders journalists and former agents, invades Ukraine and interferes in American and European elections.

[JG]

I dont think Trump is smart enough to collude with the Russians.

The only collusion at the top levels of Government was the FBI and DOJ trying hard to get Hillary elected.

That's why they released a letter one week before the election saying how they were re-opening their investigation on her, while failing to mention Trump campaign was also under investigation.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Where's that Iraq WMD?

As seen above, Operation OKRA - Australia's contribution to find the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is still continuing in 2018. Joining us in our search for WMD's is Saddam Hussein himself who is our local guide for good hiding spots.

But it was a simple miscommunication error in 2003 that led to Iraq War II - Bush JR has a Crack

George W Bush heard through intelligence that Saddam was buying "Uranium from Africa". But it actually turns out that Saddam was shopping online at www.sunniarabflorist.com buying "Geraniums from Africa".

A multi-trillion dollar typo.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Where's that Iraq WMD?

As seen above, Operation OKRA - Australia's contribution to find the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is still continuing in 2018. Joining us in our search for WMD's is Saddam Hussein himself who is our local guide for good hiding spots.

But it was a simple miscommunication error in 2003 that led to Iraq War II - Bush JR has a Crack

George W Bush heard through intelligence that Saddam was buying "Uranium from Africa". But it actually turns out that Saddam was shopping online at www.sunniarabflorist.com buying "Geraniums from Africa".

A multi-trillion dollar typo.

Actually what happened was that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was convince that Iraq still had some WMD that Special Envoy to the Middle East Donald Rumsfeld was involved with selling them. I'm sure it was some other Donald Rumsfeld because no way could Rumsfeld be that big of a hypocrite.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Even if this is true, it means Russia vetoed Romney, not picked Tillerson.

Of course. Tillerson, that guy who was personal friends with Putin's inner circle and had signed billions of dollars worth of deals with Russia's state oil company when at Exxon, and who was appointed SoS despite having almost no credentials.  

Not saying the story is true, in fact it's so astonishing I have to doubt, but if it is true it's not much of a stretch to imagine the transition team picked Tillerson specifically to mollify Moscow (even if perhaps Russia didn't explicitly ask for him).

[Karpatsky]

https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/260497619862835201

Was this a dumb thing to say? Sure. But this was also before the invasion of Ukraine, the more serious evidence of meddling in Europe, and real involvement in Syria. And frankly, although Russia should be taken seriously, they are not a real 'geopolitical foe' compared to China - they simply don't have the capability.

And I say this as one of the most serious opponents of Russia here.

[Crumpets]

I dont think Trump is smart enough to collude with the Russians.

The only collusion at the top levels of Government was the FBI and DOJ trying hard to get Hillary elected.

You do remember the Comey letter, right?