GoFundMe seizes funds of Canadian trucker convoy

[T'Chenka]

This "peaceful protest" (occupation) causes a lot of problems for the citizens and businesses of Ottawa. I want GoFundMe to be fair about this, but they violated the terms and conditions and now they lost their revenue stream. As a critic of the occupation, this is great news.

[T'Chenka]

Not that I mind that. It's a good thing to see the truckers fighting back against this nanny state drivel.

Canadian citizens / voters show overall support for the govermment on this when polled. We aren't libertarians up here.

[T'Chenka]

Good riddance to this rabble of neo-Nazis, Trumpist insurrectionists, and QAnon cultists.

How did Trumpists manage to cross the border into Canada? That country has been maintaining strict travel and immigration requirements throughout the pandemic.

Compucomp's comment aside, there have been many reports and several photographs of many American vehicles in Ottawa.

[T'Chenka]

This "peaceful protest" (occupation) causes a lot of problems for the citizens and businesses of Ottawa. I want GoFundMe to be fair about this, but they violated the terms and conditions and now they lost their revenue stream. As a critic of the occupation, this is great news.

If you supported Black lives Matter, you have no right to complain about this. Literally cities were burned and looted for months.

If you check my posting history, I was extremely pro-BLM peaceful protesting but very anti-rioting and anti-looting at the time.

[T'Chenka]

The reality right now is, big tech and the media treat conservatives and opposition to the current political establishment like they are a fringe, 20% or less of the country, group that needs to be controlled and suppressed for the "safety" of the population. Yet they are nearly half the country, and their popularity on these platforms in spite of conservatives disproportionately not using social media and being subject to disproportionate censorship should tell you just how "mainstream" people like Ben Shapiro and his opinions are in the general populace.

If huge swaths of the Canadian (or American) public begin shifting into spreading false propaganda and undermining democracy, big tech and the media aren't obligated to go along with it, regardless of whether the left or right are doing it.

[T'Chenka]

This "peaceful protest" (occupation) causes a lot of problems for the citizens and businesses of Ottawa. I want GoFundMe to be fair about this, but they violated the terms and conditions and now they lost their revenue stream. As a critic of the occupation, this is great news.

And, yet, you are fine with the violent protests of BLM in Minneapolis, Seattle, Kenosha, Atlanta, et. al.

This is a false statement and everybody on this forum of all avatar colours know it. Come on, man.

BLM did not lose revenue streams when they conducted violent protests; they GAINED revenue streams.  And BLM did all the things you criticize and then some.  The truckers, whose cause I presume you disagree with are not burning buildings, harassing diners at restaurants, going to peoples' houses at midnight and loudly chanting "Wake up, m-----f-----, wake up!". 

I would be happy to see the protestors / agitators that did that lose their revenue stream. Whether those actions were coordinated by the BLM organization is another story.

BLM did not lose revenue stream
GoFundMe are now "walking back" their plan to take these monies and give them to charities of GoFundMe's choice.  Isn't that flat out theft?  Where's your outrage on that?

Yeah, I'm against that. Just give the money back UNLESS it states right in the terms of service that this is GoFundMe's policy. In which case, follow your policies but I dislike the policy.

My outrage over this is that BLM is treated with kid gloves while these Truckers are treated as criminals, when the FACT is that BLM committed more acts of criminality in their protests than these truckers. 

We have a mask mandate in Ontario and I can guarantee you that that law / by-law has been broken over 10,000  times by these losers in Ottawa since the protest started. So, you're definitely wrong here. Breaking a law because you disagree with it still counts as breaking a law.

You may not like their cause, but they are law-abiding citizens, and I support them because they are standing up to the Walking Abscess that is your Prime Minister who is actively depriving ordinary Canadians of individual freedoms that, until now, were taken for granted and considered unremarkable. 

I'm not a huge fan of Trudeau, but he's trying to protect people like my mother from getting killed by these people. The public overall supports Trudeau and opposes these people. If this country isn't libertarian enough for them, they're welcome to go live in Trumpistan.

[T'Chenka]

Not that I mind that. It's a good thing to see the truckers fighting back against this nanny state drivel.

Canadian citizens / voters show overall support for the govermment on this when polled. We aren't libertarians up here.

That's too bad.  Canadian citizens will not appreciate their own civil liberties until they're gone and Justin Trudeau likes power too much to give them back.

My heart goes out to ordinary Canadians who are trying to live normal lives.

My mom would be too busy dying to appreciate her "right" to spread COVID everywhere she goes during the pandemic, not that she would exercise that right anyways.

[T'Chenka]

At a minimum, these folks are no worse than BLM.  These people are no worse behaved than BLM protesters, and arguably better.

Fuzzy, an entire mall has been shut down for more than a week because it was FULL of anti-maskers. Those workers are now recieving no income. We elected a Conservative govermment who put in a mask mandate (which is popular). The mall decided to close because a mall full of anti-mask customers is insanely dangerous, both in terms of the health of the workers and also that the lawlessness encouraged more lawlessless... there were people smoking indoors and a few threats of violence to staff who attempted to control the situation. The police didn't have the numbers to deal with it, which is why they now might call in the army.

I thought you supported law and order? This is a serious issue. Ontarian culture mostly takes COVID a lot more seriously than Florida culture and our laws reflect that (and overall public support of our laws).

I don't want to hear any arguments about "the mask mandate is unjust". It's the law. People can advocate for a change of the law or they can move to a province with a different law, but RIGHT NOW, hundreds of anti-maskers inside of a mall is NOT law-abiding behaviour, period. I don't want to hear any more comments aboit how law-abiding these people are. Businesses and residents all over Ottawa want these people gone.

[T'Chenka]

At a minimum, these folks are no worse than BLM.  These people are no worse behaved than BLM protesters, and arguably better.

Fuzzy, an entire mall has been shut down for more than a week because it was FULL of anti-maskers. Those workers are now recieving no income. We elected a Conservative govermment who put in a mask mandate (which is popular). The mall decided to close because a mall full of anti-mask customers is insanely dangerous, both in terms of the health of the workers and also that the lawlessness encouraged more lawlessless... there were people smoking indoors and a few threats of violence to staff who attempted to control the situation. The police didn't have the numbers to deal with it, which is why they now might call in the army.

I thought you supported law and order? This is a serious issue. Ontarian culture mostly takes COVID a lot more seriously than Florida culture and our laws reflect that (and overall public support of our laws).

I don't want to hear any arguments about "the mask mandate is unjust". It's the law. People can advocate for a change of the law or they can move to a province with a different law, but RIGHT NOW, hundreds of anti-maskers inside of a mall is NOT law-abiding behaviour, period. I don't want to hear any more comments aboit how law-abiding these people are. Businesses and residents all over Ottawa want these people gone.

You're a good person, and one of the people here that I care about personally, so this isn't personal, but you were out to lunch when BLM was trashing cities, breaking laws, doing what they were doing in MULTIPLE American cities, over a situation where (A) there was consensus outrage, and (B) the incident was IMMEDIATELY addressed and PROPERLY addressed by the criminal justice system.  And these people were in the streets, blowing off social distancing, looting, committing arson, and occupying police precincts (in some cities) on a wide scale.  Indeed, IIRC, you voiced support for BLM and Antifa, basing your support on the "Racism is an Emergency" logic, while begrudging Americans whose livelihoods were being decimated by the restrictions placed on their businesses (often representing their life savings) in the name of "public health".  You could not voice much outrage when BLM were burning and looting American cities, but you wish for outrage when truckers frustrated by YEARS of restrictions placed on them by a government led by a psychopath (which I consider Justin Trudeau to be) who has no regard for THEIR lives and livelihoods and will not even earnestly hear them out.  And given the freedom others have indulged in when it comes to Donald Trump's psychological state, I fail to see how my comment about the guy from Ottawa who likes to play dress-up is out of line.

So, no, I can't accept your argument here.  You haven't been consistent.  You have been harsher on those who have been less law-abiding in this.  If you had objected to the BLM and Antifa demonstrations (which were violent riots) I would be more disposed to your argument, but that is not the case. 

Fuzzy, with ALL due respect, you are misremembering my posting history. The only time I used the "racism is an emergency" argument is when I supported BLM peaceful protest, and even at that time, I was criticizing people who refused to choose between social distancing and wearing a mask. Other than that, I was a critic of the looting, vandalizing and criminal behaviour. I don't know if you have the time to do so, but if you search into my posting history, all of the evidence is there that I'm telling you the truth. Many other members of this forum remember my position on this, and they could back me up, if they care enough to do so. And if not, that's perfectly fine too. I know what my positions are/were. If you don't, that's on you. The evidence is there if you want to look at it.

[T'Chenka]

This "peaceful protest" (occupation) causes a lot of problems for the citizens and businesses of Ottawa. I want GoFundMe to be fair about this, but they violated the terms and conditions and now they lost their revenue stream. As a critic of the occupation, this is great news.

And, yet, you are fine with the violent protests of BLM in Minneapolis, Seattle, Kenosha, Atlanta, et. al.

This is a false statement and everybody on this forum of all avatar colours know it. Come on, man.

BLM did not lose revenue streams when they conducted violent protests; they GAINED revenue streams.  And BLM did all the things you criticize and then some.  The truckers, whose cause I presume you disagree with are not burning buildings, harassing diners at restaurants, going to peoples' houses at midnight and loudly chanting "Wake up, m-----f-----, wake up!".  

I would be happy to see the protestors / agitators that did that lose their revenue stream. Whether those actions were coordinated by the BLM organization is another story.

BLM did not lose revenue stream
GoFundMe are now "walking back" their plan to take these monies and give them to charities of GoFundMe's choice.  Isn't that flat out theft?  Where's your outrage on that?

Yeah, I'm against that. Just give the money back UNLESS it states right in the terms of service that this is GoFundMe's policy. In which case, follow your policies but I dislike the policy.

My outrage over this is that BLM is treated with kid gloves while these Truckers are treated as criminals, when the FACT is that BLM committed more acts of criminality in their protests than these truckers.

We have a mask mandate in Ontario and I can guarantee you that that law / by-law has been broken over 10,000  times by these losers in Ottawa since the protest started. So, you're definitely wrong here. Breaking a law because you disagree with it still counts as breaking a law.

You may not like their cause, but they are law-abiding citizens, and I support them because they are standing up to the Walking Abscess that is your Prime Minister who is actively depriving ordinary Canadians of individual freedoms that, until now, were taken for granted and considered unremarkable.

I'm not a huge fan of Trudeau, but he's trying to protect people like my mother from getting killed by these people. The public overall supports Trudeau and opposes these people. If this country isn't libertarian enough for them, they're welcome to go live in Trumpistan.

I don't know how old your Mom is, but I'm 65, and my wife is 67.  Our youngest son is 16 and is homeschooled.  I doubt your Mom is much older than us, if she's older at all.  I'm saying this because the vast majority of COVID-19 deaths are for people past the age of average life expectancy, and those under that age usually have multiple comorbidities.  I had a friend of ours, a young pastor, die at 41.  He was a non-smoker, non-drinking married father of two.  He also weighed over 400 lbs (possibly over 500) and had been that grossly obese his whole life.  

I don't want to die, and I don't want my wife to die.  I would like very much to live a long life.  I would certainly like to see my youngest son marry.  I would like to live to see my granddaughters married, and I would like to live to see all of them come to be Saved and know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.  I would like all of this very much, but not at any price.  Not at the cost of individual freedoms to travel, to work, to freely associate.  Not at the cost of censored speech where a Public Health Bureaucracy cannot be publicly questioned, not even by credentialed Doctors and Scientists.  I've lived a good life, and I want to live some more, but I would prefer death to the loss of personal freedom for my children.  

My mother is 64, overweight (but not obese) with some lung issues. Lockdowns and vaccine mandates are a way of the government deciding that people like my mother should be able to go on living their lives without being exposed to grave danger every single day, at the cost of anti-vaxxers (who are often anti-maskers as well) entering movie theaters, restaurants and airplanes. These policies are popular in Ontario, which means that the people who live here agree with the government that people like my mother being able to leave their homes is more important than people who refuse to be a team player for society posing unnecessary risks to everybody else. This is what our (Ontarian) society wants. We want freedom for the people who are doing their part more than we want freedom for the people who refuse to do their part, if an international health emergency is forcing us to choose. Your Floridian society is free to have a different outlook and different policies.

[T'Chenka]

If the COVID-19 pandemic was the Public Health Crisis you say it is, your statement about the protests "needing" to happen cannot be justified.  That's something you can't have both ways.  If the crisis is THAT severe, then BLM and Antifa needed to find a way to voice their opinions without taking to the streets.  Period.  If you can support limiting churches, denying others the right to protest in order to air grievances, then there is no way you can justify your position and be consistent. 

I supported BLM protests where everybody was either socially distancing or wearing a mask. Ideally both. There were no messages from BLM about "make sure you don't socially distance and don't wear a mask". Therefore, I supported the protests themselves, and some of the protestors, but was disappointed with the protestors who weren't being COVID-safe. There isn't evidence to suggest that relatively safe outdoor protests were impossible.

If BLM engaged in Civil Disobedience, that would be one thing.  But Civil Disobedience is a measure appropriate for a violation of basic rights in the face of an indifferent power structure.  There was an immediate response to the death of George Floyd by the civil authorities that was genuine and affirmative.  That's not the case of the truckers in Canada; they are having their livelihoods threatened and they are being forced to accept vaccinations whose value they rightly question.

You don't have a right to keep your job if you fail to meet the safety standards and safety protocols of the job. If you repeatedly fail to use safety equipment at work, despite multiple warnings, you could lose your job. Which is reasonable.

[T'Chenka]

Holy sh**t this is terrifying.  Tenants in a downtown Ottawa apartment building had complained about the constant noise from the protests all day and night, so a couple of the protestors decided to duct tape the doors shut and try to burn the building down with everybody inside.  CCTV screenshots shown in the tweet thread:

https://twitter.com/TiMunoz/status/1490473045965815812?s=20&t=huyygcOi0CFesM...

Assuming this is real, which I'm a bit hesitant about right at this moment, HOLY ING sh**t. This is a huge deal and is going to be all over Canadian news, if it's true.

[T'Chenka]

Holy sh**t this is terrifying.  Tenants in a downtown Ottawa apartment building had complained about the constant noise from the protests all day and night, so a couple of the protestors decided to duct tape the doors shut and try to burn the building down with everybody inside.  CCTV screenshots shown in the tweet thread:

https://twitter.com/TiMunoz/status/1490473045965815812?s=20&t=huyygcOi0CFesM...

Assuming this is real, which I'm a bit hesitant about right at this moment, HOLY ING sh**t. This is a huge deal and is going to be all over Canadian news, if it's true.

Agreed, I'm hesitant as well because right now the only news reports I've seen are referring back to this unverified tweet thread.

I read the tweet thread and some of the comments, and apparently the police are interviewing residents of the apartment building today. This is a big enough news story that one of the reporters from one of the news organizations will definitely bring it up at a press conference and the police will either confirm or deny it.

[T'Chenka]

Why would the American right organize a protest in Canada...

Because want to support the right wing against COVID restrictions in all sorts of countries, especially Western countries, English-speaking countries and countries they share a border with?

[T'Chenka]

A credible news source (the Toronto Star) is now reporting the building fire story.  They say that the Ottawa Police's arson unit is investigating.

Link

Can confirm, the Toronto Star is one of the major five newspapers in the greater Toronto area. This s##t just got real. I'm expecting this story to blow up all over the country and probably internationally as well. CNN might pick it up, Fox might try to defend this somehow. Come on Tucker, give us your best spin.

[T'Chenka]

Just wanna post this here for the "Go Truckers" people to see. Only 22% support when this poll was taken, and I would expect it to drop after this whole "trying to set an apartment building on fire" incident.

https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1490789810361053188

[T'Chenka]

Good thing the "Go Truckers" people are opposed to democracy and majority-rule. May the shortages be long-lasting for those who don't give them the respect they deserve.

The shortages being long-lasting would only hurt the Conservative Party and help Trudeau (or the NDP if Trudeau somehow collapses). Canadians by and large aren't going to suddenly start supporting this anti-vaxx protest. They're just going to blame the protest and the people who support it (People's Party and Conservative Party) for propping it up.

[T'Chenka]

https://twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1490811201089159170?t=pS4iBn0AD439eJnJHdP...

[T'Chenka]

Youtube just recommended me a "Preemptive SOS Truckers press conference" or something like that, and the thumbnail of the protest leaders speaking were ALL white. I'm not saying that there's anything racist going on or anything like that, but I found it... let's use the word "notable"... that it appears to be a bunch of white people pulling the strings of this occupation. Southern Ontario, especially urban areas, is fairly multicultural. I believe Toronto is the most multicultural city in the entire world.

[T'Chenka]

If that's how these arguments go, you know who else was an individual actor or small group infiltrating a larger protest? The idiots who blockaded doors of a residential building and started a fire. The other 99 percent of protestors are non violent honking.

We'll see if that's the case. It probably is. We'll also see if the occupation leaders condemn it or not.

[T'Chenka]

https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1493056860638773248

LOL! Owned by a hacker.

[T'Chenka]

Since BLM seems to keep coming up...
https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1492552144339226625

They are not destroying property as BLM did.

They are not committing arson.  They are not occupying courthouses.

Are they costing the Canadian economy?  Well, yes; that's the point.  They are using their rights to protest as economic leverage, just like a labor union on strike.  Now maybe you support scabs; if you do, please tell us and then go back to ranting about Trump.

Krugman's comparison is false because the truckers are not breaking laws as BLM has.  Where are the buildings  they've burned, the police precincts they've occupied by force?  Where are the people peacefully sleeping in their homes awakened by chants of BLM agitators yelling "Wake up!  Wake up!  Wake up, m-----f-----, waie up!"?  Where are the restaurant patrons being harassed?  Where was Krugman's condemnation of BLM and Antifa in the midst of their criminality? 

This is a dishonest argument by Krugman.  Both you and he are full of crap on this one.

[T'Chenka]

Gonna copy-paste my post from the Canada thread in International Discussion:

Cenk and John on the The Young Turks made a great point today talking about this stuff. Regardless of if a protest is left wing or right wing or libertarian or whatever it is, the point of the protest is to get national attention and get everybody focused on the injustice and then hopefully that can change minds which can lead to pressure for political action. The example given was MLK's walk to Selma and the police riding on horses and sending dogs to attack them. The problem is, sometimes you successfully protest and successfully get everybody paying attention and talking about the injustice, and it turns out, 50% (or more / a lot more ) of the country just doesn't agree with what you're fighting for and isn't interested in changing anything the protestors want changed. Which is what's happened in Canada after maybe 1.5 weeks, maybe 2 weeks.

So then you have to ask... how long is it appropriate for the occupation to continue? You made your point, everybody had their had your chance at change, so when should they go home? Most reasonable people would say "keep going forever" isn't appropriate, but it's hard to say exactly how long is too long. A lot of Canadians think it's been too long in this specific case. Cenk said he's interested in having an open good-faith dialogue with right wingers about how long they would say is appropriate for some protest to go on, but then points out that it's very hard to have good-faith discussions with Republicans about these kinds of things. Which is generally true.

[T'Chenka]

Gonna copy-paste my post from the Canada thread in International Discussion:

Cenk and John on the The Young Turks made a great point today talking about this stuff. Regardless of if a protest is left wing or right wing or libertarian or whatever it is, the point of the protest is to get national attention and get everybody focused on the injustice and then hopefully that can change minds which can lead to pressure for political action. The example given was MLK's walk to Selma and the police riding on horses and sending dogs to attack them. The problem is, sometimes you successfully protest and successfully get everybody paying attention and talking about the injustice, and it turns out, 50% (or more / a lot more ) of the country just doesn't agree with what you're fighting for and isn't interested in changing anything the protestors want changed. Which is what's happened in Canada after maybe 1.5 weeks, maybe 2 weeks.

So then you have to ask... how long is it appropriate for the occupation to continue? You made your point, everybody had their had your chance at change, so when should they go home? Most reasonable people would say "keep going forever" isn't appropriate, but it's hard to say exactly how long is too long. A lot of Canadians think it's been too long in this specific case. Cenk said he's interested in having an open good-faith dialogue with right wingers about how long they would say is appropriate for some protest to go on, but then points out that it's very hard to have good-faith discussions with Republicans about these kinds of things. Which is generally true.

Imagine unironically watching Cenk Uygur in 2022.

Any constructive criticism of the substance, or...?

[T'Chenka]

I wonder what residents of Ottawa who couldn't sleep well because the truckers' practically ceaseless honking and occupation would feel about this court's lack of regard for their public peace.

so you think loud, ceaseless protests should be banned?

It wasn't just a protest, it was an occupation that went on and on and on and there was other lawlessness going on as well in the city as a result. Residents of the city had to deal with rude aggressive people, loud people in the middle of the night, hordes of anti-maskers and mall employees lost their ability to make income temporarily.  As I said way back when several posts up in this thread, the entire nation got to see what these people had to say and what their grievances were, and ultimately the majority of people didn't agree with them or think the changes being advocated for should be made. Then, the occupiers / protestors continued to occupy and continued to protest, and for some time, they were not planning to stop their occupation any time soon.

That isn't a tenable situation long-term for the city of Ottawa, the province of Ontario or the federal government. Something, at some point, needed to be done. I think most reasonable people would agree with that. If you want to discuss what specifically was appropriate or inappropriate to do, or criticize how Trudeau went about doing it, I think that's perfectly reasonable. I do not however think it is reasonable to advocate (retroactively) for an endless occupation of Ottawa by far right wing extremists who the majority of Canadians disagreed with, and to say that nothing should have been done about it.