NY: Trump on Trial!

[brucejoel99]

Can people refrain from just posting tweetstorms in this tread without any context.  They really make the thread much more difficult to follow.  Maybe at least summarize and contextualize these tweets at the top of the post?

The context is this trial is now live & ongoing at this time. The "generally-2 & otherwise (quote)" rule is being abided by as requested by the relevant Mods. The most recent post of 4 tweets was posted because it looked directly relevant to the tangentially-ongoing discussion you're participating in about something that was already resolved. Ironic for following along

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

CNN (TV): Jury selection is underway and the prosecution is making a motion to sanction Trump for violating his gag order

[brucejoel99]

https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/1779908789195407390https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1779909029034098887

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Can people refrain from just posting tweetstorms in this tread without any context.  They really make the thread much more difficult to follow.  Maybe at least summarize and contextualize these tweets at the top of the post?

The context is this trial is now live & ongoing at this time. The "generally-2 & otherwise (quote)" rule is being abided by as requested by the relevant Mods. The most recent post of 4 tweets was posted because it looked directly relevant to the tangentially-ongoing discussion you're participating in about something that was already resolved. Ironic for following along

Ok, but this thread isn't the place for up-to-the-minute news about the trial. We have news sites for that, or Twitter itself if that's your preference.

It's a place for discussion of the trial. You're mostly just posting updates from other people without any discussion.

[wbrocks67]

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1779909029034098887

This still is awful precedent. You're still saying, I'll be lenient with you for specific reasons that no normal person gets the benefit of the doubt from.

You can't say it's okay to jail him later but not now for doing the same exact thing. He's been warned *many* times about the consequences of violating the gag order.

The bottom line is he just once again gets provisions that no normal person would get.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Can people refrain from just posting tweetstorms in this tread without any context.  They really make the thread much more difficult to follow.  Maybe at least summarize and contextualize these tweets at the top of the post?

The context is this trial is now live & ongoing at this time. The "generally-2 & otherwise (quote)" rule is being abided by as requested by the relevant Mods. The most recent post of 4 tweets was posted because it looked directly relevant to the tangentially-ongoing discussion you're participating in about something that was already resolved. Ironic for following along

Ok, but this thread isn't the place for up-to-the-minute news about the trial. We have news sites for that, or Twitter itself if that's your preference.

It's a place for discussion of the trial. You're mostly just posting updates from other people without any discussion.

I think the news updates are useful by themselves, although I agree that analysis and discussion (especially from our resident legal experts) are always welcome.

[brucejoel99]

Can people refrain from just posting tweetstorms in this tread without any context.  They really make the thread much more difficult to follow.  Maybe at least summarize and contextualize these tweets at the top of the post?

The context is this trial is now live & ongoing at this time. The "generally-2 & otherwise (quote)" rule is being abided by as requested by the relevant Mods. The most recent post of 4 tweets was posted because it looked directly relevant to the tangentially-ongoing discussion you're participating in about something that was already resolved. Ironic for following along

Ok, but this thread isn't the place for up-to-the-minute news about the trial. We have news sites for that, or Twitter itself if that's your preference.

It's a place for discussion of the trial. You're mostly just posting updates from other people without any discussion.

I think the news updates are useful by themselves, although I agree that analysis and discussion (especially from our resident legal experts) are always welcome.

Ty, that tracks with how I was just about to point out the entire point of megathreads as historically & presently used here are for news AND discussion about a topic so that new threads aren't constantly being started, hence this Forum's 118-pg long "Trump 2nd Impeachment News/Talk Megathread" saying Impeachment "News/Talk" & not just Impeachment "Talk".

[wbrocks67]

Omg

https://twitter.com/danpfeiffer/status/1779912795699761418

[Yoda]

The fact that this was allowed - in and of itself - is still insane to me

https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1779901490594775368

IANAL, but generally aren't prosecutors allowed to establish a defendant's pattern of conduct and their history of lying? Are trump's various other actions to manipulate the press, suppress true stories and promote fake ones not relevant to his character and his willingness to commit crimes?

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

The fact that this was allowed - in and of itself - is still insane to me

https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1779901490594775368

IANAL, but generally aren't prosecutors allowed to establish a defendant's pattern of conduct and their history of lying? Are trump's various other actions to manipulate the press, suppress true stories and promote fake ones not relevant to his character and his willingness to commit crimes?

I think a pattern of other related -crimes- is sometimes considered relevant to establish the likelihood of committing a similar crime.  But lying to reporters is generally not a crime.  You're not allowed to just introduce evidence that someone is generally a bad person. 

On the other hand, ff someone is a witness, you often can introduce evidence that a person is dishonest to impeach the credibility of their testimony.  Which is why a lot of this stuff could potential come in to cross examine Trump as a witness, but couldn't be used if he doesn't testify.

[ꙮ]

[CLIPPED]
That’s not even an interpretation. It’s just black letter law.

§ 30.10 Timeliness of prosecutions; periods of limitation.
…
4. In calculating the time limitation applicable to commencement of a
criminal action, the following periods shall not be included:

(a) Any period following the commission of the offense during which
(i) the defendant was continuously outside this state or (ii) the
whereabouts of the defendant were continuously unknown and continuously
unascertainable by the exercise of reasonable diligence. However, in no
event shall the period of limitation be extended by more than five years
beyond the period otherwise applicable under subdivision two.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CPL/30.10
Most jurisdictions have such a provision for tolling the statute of limitations. What is the Constitutional argument against it that you think SCOTUS would bite at?

Time is linear. If a crime happened on April 14n 2023 and the Statute of Limitations is one year, it expired yesterday. Doesn't matter if said offender wasn't in state everyday for the past year. The universe does not stop because someone left a jurisdiction. All of those states who have such interpretation are wrong and SCOTUS should strike it down. And given the makeup of the current SCOTUS, it's almost certain they will. Even some of liberals may join along.

This isn't legally relevant, but since you're being a smartass anyway: Time actually does not flow at the same rate everywhere in the universe. Two observers moving at different speeds or under different amounts of gravity will experience time at different rates.

[Yoda]

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1779909029034098887

This still is awful precedent. You're still saying, I'll be lenient with you for specific reasons that no normal person gets the benefit of the doubt from.

You can't say it's okay to jail him later but not now for doing the same exact thing. He's been warned *many* times about the consequences of violating the gag order.

The bottom line is he just once again gets provisions that no normal person would get.

I strongly agree, but I can see fines working if they make them proportionately high to trump's reported wealth. These fines should be starting out at like $50k per violation, 1k is a joke. Next violation is $250, $1 million after, $5 million, $10 million. Payment due immediately or else his properties start being seized. He will shut his mouth and his posts up if the consequence is strong enough, it's that simple.

[brucejoel99]

The fact that this was allowed - in and of itself - is still insane to me

https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1779901490594775368

IANAL, but generally aren't prosecutors allowed to establish a defendant's pattern of conduct and their history of lying? Are trump's various other actions to manipulate the press, suppress true stories and promote fake ones not relevant to his character and his willingness to commit crimes?

I think they mean it's insane that there was ever even "a special arrangement with the National Enquirer during the 2016 election cycle to publish positive stories about [Donald Trump] and negative pieces on his rivals".

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm quite certain that states do not have the authority to ban flights from other states, that would violate hordes of Constitutional provisions and precedents on interstate commerce, not to mention that airports and flights are governed by the FAA, a federal agency.

[Gass3268]

Omg

https://twitter.com/danpfeiffer/status/1779912795699761418

Sleepy Don!

[emailking]

I'm quite certain that states do not have the authority to ban flights from other states, that would violate hordes of Constitutional provisions and precedents on interstate commerce, not to mention that airports and flights are governed by the FAA, a federal agency.

I think this is the same poster that said he was half joking another time he posted something similary hyperbolic.

[Redban]

one of the biggest lib propagandists says Trump is sleeping, and people take her word as true

lol Maggie plz

[Dan the Roman]

There are so many things wrong with this case and I have some quite choice words for Mr. Bragg, but the most glaring problems are 1) Statue of Limitations and 2) NY doesn't have jurisdiction over a federal matter, and the Feds declined to prosecute this case. I think its incumbent upon SCOTUS to step in and shut the case down now. Usually, they don't get involved until the appeals process, but given the unprecedented nature of this case plus the horrific ramifications it could have on our body politic, its best to be shut down now.

In the meantime, I think it's incumbent upon GOP governors to use their powers to punish the state of New York. Shut down flights originating from NYC from landing in their states. The NY-FL air market is huge, so that would have an impact. Plus, you have huge airline hubs in TX and GA that would cause a harrowing effect on NY. Cancel all state-funded travel to NY. Not only does this apply to government employees, but also publicly funded universities. Any NCAA sporting events in NY would be effected. And make clear these sanctions will not be lifted until the case is dismissed.

There are indeed some thorny legal questions that still need to be resolved in this case, but these aren’t them.
1) The 5 year Statute of Limitations is tolled during periods when the Defendant was continuously outside of the state.
2) Trump is being prosecuted under New York State law for the state crime of falsifying business records.

That is a very flawed interpretation of the Statute of Limitations and one that almost certainly won't hold up to scrutiny from SCOTUS.

New York is infamous for trying to exercise universal jurisdiction, and the state's efforts to levy income taxes on non-residents who own property have been challenged for decades by Connecticut and New Jersey residents who never set foot in the state for years at a time. New York is the Belgium of US domestic law, and it is a real problem for anyone dumb or unfortunate enough to make the mistake of establishing residency in the state.

However, while there is a  near consensus among legal professionals that New York's approach is abusive and probably goes against the spirit of our federal system, no one has managed to make a successful challenge to why most of its behavior is explicitly unconstitutional. And the case here is MUCH weaker because Trump is not even trying to make the argument that he has cut all ties to New York.

If Trump had divested himself of all his New York assets, reincorporated the Trump Org in Florida, employed no one in the state, and then refused to show up, he might have a federal argument. But in that case, the federal argument would come about when Florida courts decided to tell Bragg and James to stuff it and they sued. Because the only times people have beaten New York is when it has tried to enforce its laws through other courts of other jurisdictions.

I think there was a real chance James was going to lose or trigger SCOTUS intervention in her case if she had moved to try and seize Mar-a-Lago(and that may have weighed on the minds of the judges during the appeal). But nothing will happen provided New York confines itself to assets actually within the state and people who have left them there.

[GeorgiaModerate]

one of the biggest lib propagandists says Trump is sleeping, and people take her word as true

lol Maggie plz

Maggie isn't the only one who's reported it, e.g.:

https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1779914879647842787

[Ferguson97]

one of the biggest lib propagandists says Trump is sleeping, and people take her word as true

lol Maggie plz

Calling Maggie Habberman a liberal propagandist is genuinely insane

[wbrocks67]

The fact that this was allowed - in and of itself - is still insane to me

https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1779901490594775368

IANAL, but generally aren't prosecutors allowed to establish a defendant's pattern of conduct and their history of lying? Are trump's various other actions to manipulate the press, suppress true stories and promote fake ones not relevant to his character and his willingness to commit crimes?

I think they mean it's insane that there was ever even "a special arrangement with the National Enquirer during the 2016 election cycle to publish positive stories about [Donald Trump] and negative pieces on his rivals".

yeah this is what i meant haha

[Landslide Lyndon]

one of the biggest lib propagandists says Trump is sleeping, and people take her word as true

lol Maggie plz

Calling Maggie Habberman a liberal propagandist is genuinely insane

It's also ungrateful. Good ol' Maggie was one of Trump's most dutiful stenographers when he was president. She even sat on unflattering information about him with the excuse of wanting to use that information for her book.

[7,052,770]

one of the biggest lib propagandists says Trump is sleeping, and people take her word as true

lol Maggie plz

Maggie is a lifelong Trump fan and gave him more favorable coverage during his presidency than anyone left of center in all of America...

[brucejoel99]

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1779917161651188128https://twitter.com/TylerMcBrien/status/1779928350091329909

[politicallefty]

I'd love to see voir dire in person where Trump is the defendant.