Derek Chauvin trial megathread (SENTENCED TO 22.5 YEARS IN PRISON)

[Fuzzy Bear]

It's a damn cartoon.

It's a cartoon with a message that implies that a verdict should be about something other than proving a defendant guilty or innocent beyond a reasonable doubt.  ALL Lives Matter.  ALL Lives Matter EQUALLY.  That's God's view on it.  No, I will not pretend otherwise.

The trial was not about whether or not Black Lives Mattered or not; it was about whether or not Derek Chauvin's actions caused George Floyd's death, and whether or not those actions rose to the level of the crimes he was charged with.  Trials should not be about anything else, period.  

What this trial has is the look of a coerced verdict.  This, of course, does not mean that Chauvin was not guilty, and I am certainly not saying that.  But it is indisputable that the threat of massive violent demonstrations would occur in the event of an unsatisfactory verdict; this threat was never disputed and never downplayed by the media, and there was little reason to believe that this threat would be met with enough resistance to preempt significant damage.  What will happen if, indeed, Derek Chauvin's case IS reversed on appeal, even in part where the most severe charges are thrown out?  

How would YOU feel if it were YOU, or a loved one on trial, and the actions of others caused you to believe that the jury would be at risk for their own well-being, or the well-being of their city, if they returned a factual verdict that was not what a mob threatening violence wanted?  There is no place in a free, open, and honest society for a jury to have to think of the consequences if their proper verdict will be received with violence.  It may well be that in this case, the jury's verdict squared with the facts, but do appearances not matter here?  What happens to actual "justice" when the specter of mob violence is a factor at every significant jury trial?

Appearances matter in criminal justice.  What confidence can anyone have in a Criminal Justice system when the verdicts of juries have the appearance of being influenced by the coercive attempts of mobs?  Once that becomes a norm, there will never be such a thing as closure.  I would pray that those people who are sincerely liberal (in the true sense of the word) will stop enabling those elements in our society that seek not actual justice, but vengeance through coercion.

[Fuzzy Bear]

It's a damn cartoon.

It's a cartoon with a message that implies that a verdict should be about something other than proving a defendant guilty or innocent beyond a reasonable doubt.  ALL Lives Matter.  ALL Lives Matter EQUALLY.  That's God's view on it.  No, I will not pretend otherwise.

The trial was not about whether or not Black Lives Mattered or not; it was about whether or not Derek Chauvin's actions caused George Floyd's death, and whether or not those actions rose to the level of the crimes he was charged with.  Trials should not be about anything else, period.  

What this trial has is the look of a coerced verdict.  This, of course, does not mean that Chauvin was not guilty, and I am certainly not saying that.  But it is indisputable that the threat of massive violent demonstrations would occur in the event of an unsatisfactory verdict; this threat was never disputed and never downplayed by the media, and there was little reason to believe that this threat would be met with enough resistance to preempt significant damage.  What will happen if, indeed, Derek Chauvin's case IS reversed on appeal, even in part where the most severe charges are thrown out?  

How would YOU feel if it were YOU, or a loved one on trial, and the actions of others caused you to believe that the jury would be at risk for their own well-being, or the well-being of their city, if they returned a factual verdict that was not what a mob threatening violence wanted?  There is no place in a free, open, and honest society for a jury to have to think of the consequences if their proper verdict will be received with violence.  It may well be that in this case, the jury's verdict squared with the facts, but do appearances not matter here?  What happens to actual "justice" when the specter of mob violence is a factor at every significant jury trial?

Appearances matter in criminal justice.  What confidence can anyone have in a Criminal Justice system when the verdicts of juries have the appearance of being influenced by the coercive attempts of mobs?  Once that becomes a norm, there will never be such a thing as closure.  I would pray that those people who are sincerely liberal (in the true sense of the word) will stop enabling those elements in our society that seek not actual justice, but vengeance through coercion.

You're really not very smart, are you?  Black Lives Matter is in no way saying that black lives matter more than other lives.  It's a statement that black lives so often do not seem to matter, and they should matter equally to other lives.  If you don't understand that, no one can help you.

He never ceases to amaze me (in the most negative way possible).
Every chance he gets, he needs to degrade the BLM movement, and in essence dog-on black citizens through-out our nation.

You're absolutely correct.  I will degrade BLM when I get the chance.  They've earned the degradation by their behavior in multiple American cities over the past year.  That you have a noble-sounding name does not mean you are a noble group, and there is nothing noble about BLM.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Matthew 16:25

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.  Mark 8:35
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  Mark 8:34

ALL Lives Matter to God.  They should matter to those who claim to be His Children.  Do ALL Lives Matter?  If that is really so, that should be affirmed.  Whatever the original intent of the name "Black Lives Matter", we're WAY beyond that.  There is no reason for me to believe that MY life matters to BLM, or the lives of anyone in my family.  (There is no evidence the previous two posters consider my life to matter, either.)  People who say they are Christians have a choice; to affirm that ALL Lives Matter, or that just some do.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Violent looters are not "peaceful protesters," and nobody cares about what Christians think of this subject.

Oh come-on John Dule.
It's the usual lines of Scripture, accompanied with a small pinch (more like a handful) of HATE.

Hate?

I'm not the one calling for pigs in a blanket to be fried like bacon.

I'm not the one who's burning Federal courthouses.

You're not the one calling THOSE folks out.

Perhaps you're a tad confused. 

[Fuzzy Bear]

It's a damn cartoon.

It's a cartoon with a message that implies that a verdict should be about something other than proving a defendant guilty or innocent beyond a reasonable doubt.  ALL Lives Matter.  ALL Lives Matter EQUALLY.  That's God's view on it.  No, I will not pretend otherwise.

The trial was not about whether or not Black Lives Mattered or not; it was about whether or not Derek Chauvin's actions caused George Floyd's death, and whether or not those actions rose to the level of the crimes he was charged with.  Trials should not be about anything else, period.  

What this trial has is the look of a coerced verdict.  This, of course, does not mean that Chauvin was not guilty, and I am certainly not saying that.  But it is indisputable that the threat of massive violent demonstrations would occur in the event of an unsatisfactory verdict; this threat was never disputed and never downplayed by the media, and there was little reason to believe that this threat would be met with enough resistance to preempt significant damage.  What will happen if, indeed, Derek Chauvin's case IS reversed on appeal, even in part where the most severe charges are thrown out?  

How would YOU feel if it were YOU, or a loved one on trial, and the actions of others caused you to believe that the jury would be at risk for their own well-being, or the well-being of their city, if they returned a factual verdict that was not what a mob threatening violence wanted?  There is no place in a free, open, and honest society for a jury to have to think of the consequences if their proper verdict will be received with violence.  It may well be that in this case, the jury's verdict squared with the facts, but do appearances not matter here?  What happens to actual "justice" when the specter of mob violence is a factor at every significant jury trial?

Appearances matter in criminal justice.  What confidence can anyone have in a Criminal Justice system when the verdicts of juries have the appearance of being influenced by the coercive attempts of mobs?  Once that becomes a norm, there will never be such a thing as closure.  I would pray that those people who are sincerely liberal (in the true sense of the word) will stop enabling those elements in our society that seek not actual justice, but vengeance through coercion.

You're really not very smart, are you?  Black Lives Matter is in no way saying that black lives matter more than other lives.  It's a statement that black lives so often do not seem to matter, and they should matter equally to other lives.  If you don't understand that, no one can help you.

He never ceases to amaze me (in the most negative way possible).
Every chance he gets, he needs to degrade the BLM movement, and in essence dog-on black citizens through-out our nation.

You're absolutely correct.  I will degrade BLM when I get the chance.  They've earned the degradation by their behavior in multiple American cities over the past year.  That you have a noble-sounding name does not mean you are a noble group, and there is nothing noble about BLM.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Matthew 16:25

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.  Mark 8:35
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  Mark 8:34

ALL Lives Matter to God.  They should matter to those who claim to be His Children.  Do ALL Lives Matter?  If that is really so, that should be affirmed.  Whatever the original intent of the name "Black Lives Matter", we're WAY beyond that.  There is no reason for me to believe that MY life matters to BLM, or the lives of anyone in my family.  (There is no evidence the previous two posters consider my life to matter, either.)  People who say they are Christians have a choice; to affirm that ALL Lives Matter, or that just some do.

Fuzzy Bear blabbering inanities in bad faith? Must be a day that ends in y.

It's amazing that you're an attorney and you won't even address the real issues of potential jury intimidation (indirectly, if not directly) in this case.

ALL LIves Matter, Badger.  Even yours.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Make an example of him, he deserves the max for his callous brutality.

No.

Sentencing an individual defendant should never be about making an example of a defendant.  Never.  Criminal penalties should be sufficient to deter others, but they should not be handed out to make an example of someone.

Is Derek Chauvin's more callously brutal than the shooting of 3 year old Mekhi James in Chicago?  Or 1 year old Darrell Gardner in Brooklyn?  When we find their killers should we make national examples of them,, and then sentence them to Life Imprisonment (even if they turn out to be under age 18)?  Were the actions of whomever killed these infants not callously brutal?

Chauvin deserves to be sentenced to whatever his conviction merits.  Aggravating and mitigating factors ought to be considered, and the judge ought to sentence him as the facts say.  He should not, however, receive "the max" just because lawless mobs demand it and allow the implicit threat of violence in the event that the sentence is not sufficient for the lawless mob.  (Indeed, mobs who engage in violence at the result of this sentencing, or any other, should be met with the full force of law enforcement at the FIRST act of illegal violence, but that's another story.)  Derek Chauvin has the right to be judged and sentenced in the same manner as any other defendant.  Those of you who do not believe that are unfit for public office, and I hope that those of you that believe this are never elected or appointed to any political or governmental position in America.  Making an example out of people is a wrong concept, period.