Trump admin defends inhumane conditions for children at its concentration camps

[DavidB.]

After 1935, Jews were not citizens of Germany.  They were state subjects under the law.  You and other blue avatars in this thread and elsewhere have made the argument over and over again that these immigrants in the US are subject to the law (which they 'broke') and that if we don't like the law then we need to change it.

Citizenship, rights, all of it... are subject to revocation at any time.  Especially when you need them most.

Latin American countries didn't rescind these people's citizenship. And they're moving to the U.S., not away from it. If the U.S. were comparable to Nazi Germany, Latinos would be leaving the country in droves, not moving there in droves. It really remains a ridiculous comparison that trivializes Nazi Germany's crimes and causes the next generation of Americans (who are already less likely to have first-hand information about the war than Europeans) to take these crimes much less seriously. Congratulations.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/rauchway/status/1141494927127277568

[Brittain33]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

No it's not.  The Jews didn't invade Germany.  Please stop pretending these are comparable instances.  My people were citizens of a country, rounded up like cattle, worked to death, and murdered for their religion and "race".  Nothing of the sort is happening in the United States, and the very idea of it is offensive to me.  

Amen.

Hope the wall will be there soon so that these detention centers won't be necessary anymore.

David B., what event happened in Germany in the 10 days before Kristallnacht, leading to Herschel Grynszpan’s shooting the bureaucrat in Paris?

Cheap Godwin. Grynszpan's parents were deported to Poland. They were German citizens. Not the same as people voluntarily moving to the U.S., and Latin American countries aren't comparable to Nazi Germany.

Really, David? His parents were Polish Jews who moved to Germany in 1911. That’s why they were among the thousands of Jews that Hitler dumped on the border to cleanse Germany of Jewish immigrants.

[Brittain33]

David, who were the main residents of Westerbork prior to June 1942, and the first Jews deported from the Netherlands?

How did Westerbork’s purpose and population change from 1940-1941 to the second half of the occupation?

[JGibson]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

 

Bingo. It makes me sick that the criminal Misadministration is inflicting cruelty on migrant children and adults in concentration camps run by the DHS.

[DavidB.]

Really, David? His parents were Polish Jews who moved to Germany in 1911. That’s why they were among the thousands of Jews that Hitler dumped on the border to cleanse Germany of Jewish immigrants.

Yeah, but the Grynszpans weren't "dumped on the border" in 1911 upon entering Germany, they were "dumped on the border" in 1938. After having been in Germany for 27 years. Legally, as citizens. That's the difference.

If the U.S. were to put people who had stayed in the U.S. legally (and were citizens) for 27 years in detention facilities, I'd fully agree that this would be worth the outrage. But that's not what's happening, and therefore the WWII comparison is completely inappropriate.

David, who were the main residents of Westerbork prior to June 1942, and the first Jews deported from the Netherlands?

How did Westerbork’s purpose and population change from 1940-1941 to the second half of the occupation?

Spare me this comparison. This year, the Dutch Night of the Refugee, a march in solidarity with "refugees", was supposed to start at Westerbork. Also wholly inappropriate and rightly cancelled following a massive amount of criticism, and the director of the memorial center will enjoy his pension now. What's your point?

[Slander and/or Libel]

The blue avatars in here keep arguing that we’re not at the end state of Nazi Germany to distract from the fact that we’re way closer to its beginning than anyone should be comfortable with.

[ProudModerate2]

The blue avatars in here keep arguing that we’re not at the end state of Nazi Germany to distract from the fact that we’re way closer to its beginning than anyone should be comfortable with.

"Amen."

[Brittain33]

The blue avatars in here keep arguing that we’re not at the end state of Nazi Germany to distract from the fact that we’re way closer to its beginning than anyone should be comfortable with.

"Amen."

Yep. If historically it doesn't follow exactly the same steps, we're supposed to ignore the demonization and delegalization of immigrants, the racial animus, separating families, depriving kids of basic sanitation, food, and care, turning a blind eye to presentable diseases and deaths in overcrowded camps, the criminalization of offering aid to people, etc. Blue avatars can refuse to acknowledge the similarities the same way people refuse to acknowledge that Trump assaulted women, and they won't be convinced.

[longtimelurker]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

 

No it's not.  The Jews didn't invade Germany.  Please stop pretending these are comparable instances.  My people were citizens of a country, rounded up like cattle, worked to death, and murdered for their religion and "race".  Nothing of the sort is happening in the United States, and the very idea of it is offensive to me.  

The world's expert on concentration camps disagrees with you.  

My relatives may have been incarcerated and murdered at the same camps yours were.  I happen to be of the opinion that the distinction you made is of little consequence to the those children currently in the camps.


Huffpost link

[Brittain33]

Children and adults entering the U.S. with a claim of asylum are here legally, David. They are following the law. Under the Flores agreement, they are entitled to a certain standard of humane treatment.

They are here as legally as Grynszpan’s parents were in 1933. The children in Trump’s concentration camps even have a greater claim because the Nazis actually changed the law to remove citizenship from Jews before they moved to deport now-illegals like the Grynszpans, while Trump hasn’t even done that. He’s just ignoring the law.

[Brittain33]

Westerbork is a Dutch concentration camp that was originally set up to house Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. Many of these refugees had fled to the Netherlands illegally out of fear for their lives.

The Germans took it over when they invaded in 1940, and one or two of the earliest deportation trains to Auschwitz carried these German “illegals” to their deaths. The Germans found it very easy to expand and adapt this camp to house Jews of all nationalities in the Netherlands, including Dutch, and keep then in squalor and overcrowding before deporting them to their deaths, too.

And we haven’t talked about the situation in France..

It’s uncomfortable to note how the machinery of the Holocaust began as a deportation mechanism for unpopular immigrants and illegals before it swept up all of the Jews.

[DavidB.]

As you may imagine, I am very well aware of Westerbork's history.

Children and adults entering the U.S. with a claim of asylum are here legally, David. They are following the law. Under the Flores agreement, they are entitled to a certain standard of humane treatment.

They are here as legally as Grynszpan’s parents were in 1933. The children in Trump’s concentration camps even have a greater claim because the Nazis actually changed the law to remove citizenship from Jews before they moved to deport now-illegals like the Grynszpans, while Trump hasn’t even done that. He’s just ignoring the law.

Are you saying people who had never been in America before applying for asylum have more of a right to be in America than Jews who moved to Germany more than two decades before the National Socialist powergrab, who held citizenship, but whose citizenship was subsequently stripped by the Nazis had a right to be in Germany? Wow.

[Brittain33]

(For the record, my relatives weren’t deported from Germany or the Netherlands; they would have been shot after the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941.

[Brittain33]

Children and adults entering the U.S. with a claim of asylum are here legally, David. They are following the law. Under the Flores agreement, they are entitled to a certain standard of humane treatment.

They are here as legally as Grynszpan’s parents were in 1933. The children in Trump’s concentration camps even have a greater claim because the Nazis actually changed the law to remove citizenship from Jews before they moved to deport now-illegals like the Grynszpans, while Trump hasn’t even done that. He’s just ignoring the law.

Are you saying people who had never been in America before applying for asylum have more of a right to be in America than Jews who moved to Germany more than two decades before the National Socialist powergrab, who held citizenship, but whose citizenship was subsequently stripped by the Nazis had a right to be in Germany? Wow.

You sound surprised to learn that these kids have legal rights in the U.S., more legal rights than Jews did in Nazi Germany. I am surprised anyone would get into one of these threads without knowing about Flores or asylum law.

Asylum law was created *because* of the dire situations of illegals like the Grynszpans! Humanity has learned something since the 1930s. Well, some of us.

[DavidB.]

Nice try - I am well aware of the unfortunate asylum laws that will ultimately destroy the West. What I am baffled about, however, is that you seem to think asylum seekers have more of a valid claim to be in the U.S. than the Grynszpans had a valid claim to be in Germany. And do you think Latin American countries are comparable to Nazi Germany?

[Fuzzy Bear]

What's not mentioned in these discussions of "Asylum Seekers" is that many of these people who are now facing deportation have had their claims heard, and (in many cases) had their appeals heard.  They are being deported because their cases were found to not have merit.

Asylum is not about someone moving to a more affluent country because you want a better life.  

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/asylum-united-states

What Is Asylum?
Asylum is a protection granted to foreign nationals already in the United States or at the border who meet the international law definition of a “refugee.” The United Nations 1951 Convention and 1967 Protocol define a refugee as a person who is unable or unwilling to return to his or her home country, and cannot obtain protection in that country, due to past persecution or a well-founded fear of being persecuted in the future “on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.” Congress incorporated this definition into U.S. immigration law in the Refugee Act of 1980.

As a signatory to the 1967 Protocol, and through U.S. immigration law, the United States has legal obligations to provide protection to those who qualify as refugees. The Refugee Act established two paths to obtain refugee status—either from abroad as a resettled refugee or in the United States as an asylum seeker.

Let's also note that the asylum process can take almost 2 years these days, due to the backlog in our Asylum Courts. 

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Speaking of Godwin...



This thread has already been thoroughly derailed.  Just remember, the way you treat immigrants is the way you treat Jesus.

[Frodo]

It's one thing to demand that migrants respect the rule of law -but is it really necessary to treat them worse than animals to drive home the point?  I am glad we got those Civil War amendments passed, otherwise some here would be advocating their enslavement. 

[DavidB.]

This thread has already been thoroughly derailed.  Just remember, the way you treat immigrants is the way you treat Jesus.

Lemme think about this one

[Slander and/or Libel]

As you may imagine, I am very well aware of Westerbork's history.

Children and adults entering the U.S. with a claim of asylum are here legally, David. They are following the law. Under the Flores agreement, they are entitled to a certain standard of humane treatment.

They are here as legally as Grynszpan’s parents were in 1933. The children in Trump’s concentration camps even have a greater claim because the Nazis actually changed the law to remove citizenship from Jews before they moved to deport now-illegals like the Grynszpans, while Trump hasn’t even done that. He’s just ignoring the law.

Are you saying people who had never been in America before applying for asylum have more of a right to be in America than Jews who moved to Germany more than two decades before the National Socialist powergrab, who held citizenship, but whose citizenship was subsequently stripped by the Nazis had a right to be in Germany? Wow.

Let’s not forget that the administration is also deporting people who have lived here for decades and never known any other home and who have committed no other. Time than being brought here as children.

[DavidB.]

Let’s not forget that the administration is also deporting people who have lived here for decades and never known any other home and who have committed no other. Time than being brought here as children.

If they're in the U.S. illegally, they should be deported.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/content/news/cornyn-humane-act-would-address-crisis-border?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=062019_humane

looks like a good bill.

[7,052,770]

https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/content/news/cornyn-humane-act-would-address-crisis-border?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=062019_humane

looks like a good bill.

LOL, this wouldn't just be irony ore mine material if posted here, it would be a thread renamer

“I know most of our Congressional Democratic friends have adopted the posture of reflexively standing against the President on anything and everything that he asks for.”

[Badger]

I think we should avoid the Holocaust comparisons.

 the Japanese internment camp comparison is absolutely appropriate and thus more compelling.

That too was, "just enforcing the law".