South Carolina Republicans want death penalty for women who get abortions

[Ferguson97]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

Answer my questions.

As soon as you start asking don’t good faith ones, I will.

[RFK 2024]

Even if this has zero chance of actually getting passed it’s insanity.  Are you actually pro life if you support the death penalty, or are you pro birth?  There’s a big difference.

[Person Man]

Even if this has zero chance of actually getting passed it’s insanity.  Are you actually pro life if you support the death penalty, or are you pro birth?  There’s a big difference.

Of course, maybe not even most pro-life people actually think that abortion is murder.

Most of them probably see the availability of abortion as an unnecessary privilege for people whom they see as a social burden, long-term community liability, or a personal nuisance and hence they are doing whatever they can to ostracize people who participate in abortion from society.

[Badger]

My God. Watching Shua flail around trying to claim a bill sponsored by almost two dozen State House members saying that women obtaining abortions would be eligible for the death penalty, doesn't mean if passed women getting abortions in South Carolina will be eligible for the death penalty. "Because reasonz!!" (Chef's kiss)

That level of bad faith knee-jerk contrarianism --we have officially reached peak Shua.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

Answer my questions.

This is sad. Just say you support this or don’t because you don’t support the DP for civilian crimes and support life imprisonment instead and move on.

I don't support this bill since abortion has distinctions as a form of homicide that it makes sense for the law to be specific about how this distinctiveness should play out in the law, and I have views of what that should include which this bill does not.  But the faults of this bill do not somehow mean that women who get abortions are therefore going to be treated more harshly than 99% of those judged guilty of other criminal homicides in South Carolina, and claims that it will are propaganda.   Ok., moving on.

[cg41386]

Unborn babies obviously deserve full legal protection and personhood, but this law is absurd. Not only is the death penalty barbaric, but also there's a difference between punishing murder that's widely condemned by society and that which society still accepts. Putting in increasingly harsher penalties isn't going to get any of the pro abortion crowd to change their minds.

Yeah, no.

[Person Man]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

Answer my questions.

This is sad. Just say you support this or don’t because you don’t support the DP for civilian crimes and support life imprisonment instead and move on.

I don't support this bill since abortion has distinctions as a form of homicide that it makes sense for the law to be specific about how this distinctiveness should play out in the law, and I have views of what that should include which this bill does not.  But the faults of this bill do not somehow mean that women who get abortions are therefore going to be treated more harshly than 99% of those judged guilty of other criminal homicides in South Carolina, and claims that it will are propaganda.   Ok., moving on.

Agreed to a point. Most people who kill someone aren't going to get the death penalty. Probably more people are eventually going to be paroled than executed.

Then again, what if there is some group of activists or anarchist/left-wing militia that has performed hundreds of abortions illegally that the police and NG have been trying to round up for years? What if there is someone who has had several abortions (they had pregnancy complications or were just a lazy thot, it doesn't matter at this point) since the law happened. All of these people are now serial killers.

[Badger]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

Answer my questions.

This is sad. Just say you support this or don’t because you don’t support the DP for civilian crimes and support life imprisonment instead and move on.

I don't support this bill since abortion has distinctions as a form of homicide that it makes sense for the law to be specific about how this distinctiveness should play out in the law, and I have views of what that should include which this bill does not.  But the faults of this bill do not somehow mean that women who get abortions are therefore going to be treated more harshly than 99% of those judged guilty of other criminal homicides in South Carolina, and claims that it will are propaganda.   Ok., moving on.

Agreed to a point. Most people who kill someone aren't going to get the death penalty. Probably more people are eventually going to be paroled than executed.

Then again, what if there is some group of activists or anarchist/left-wing militia that has performed hundreds of abortions illegally that the police and NG have been trying to round up for years? What if there is someone who has had several abortions (they had pregnancy complications or were just a lazy thot, it doesn't matter at this point) since the law happened. All of these people are now serial killers.

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

[Landslide Lyndon]

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

Exactly. That's why shua's entire act is so insultingly dishonest.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

Exactly. That's why shua's entire act is so insultingly dishonest.

What's dishonest is pretending to care about women in South Carolina supposedly at risk of getting the death penalty when you really just want an excuse to be a jerk to people you disagree with.

[Hermit For Peace]

Unborn babies obviously deserve full legal protection and personhood, but this law is absurd. Not only is the death penalty barbaric, but also there's a difference between punishing murder that's widely condemned by society and that which society still accepts. Putting in increasingly harsher penalties isn't going to get any of the pro abortion crowd to change their minds.

Yeah, no.

I agree, yeah no.

"Unborn babies obviously deserve full legal protection...." How is it obvious? What do you mean by obvious? Just asking.

[Ferguson97]

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

Exactly. That's why shua's entire act is so insultingly dishonest.

What's dishonest is pretending to care about women in South Carolina supposedly at risk of getting the death penalty when you really just want an excuse to be a jerk to people you disagree with.

Hilarious that you're still pretending that this is up to debate or interpretation.

[Badger]

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

Exactly. That's why shua's entire act is so insultingly dishonest.

What's dishonest is pretending to care about women in South Carolina supposedly at risk of getting the death penalty when you really just want an excuse to be a jerk to people you disagree with.

No you disingenuous twit. I and every other person arguing against this bill in this thread are genuinely frightfully concerned for women in South Carolina who disagree with your fetus fetish about whether or not life begins a conception or not and are driven to get an abortion might actually be up for the death penalty, and if they're " lucky" they'll  be "allowed " 20 to life.

This entire thread you have been a thoroughly dishonest to an outright laughable degree. And now to accuse others in this thread of just trying to score points other than, God forbid not wanting to see women sent into prison for life or the electric chair for trying to control their own reproduction which offends you so highly, is just the final straw. Take the L, big guy. We get it that you believe 2 + 2 = 5 and nothing will change your pig-headed mind on the subject.

If you had a scintilla of backbone or intellectual honesty you would either come out and say yes I am okay with women being put on death row for abortions, or at least stay hey I'm pro-life but this is too far, I only want to see women tossed in prison for 15 or 20 years for such a thing because I'm one of the "nice" patriarchs. Sadly, in this thread you've demonstrated neither, instead attempted to play the socratic equivalent of patty cake and plugging your ears going "la la la la.la la I can't hear you!!"

Seriously, your attempts to deny that this bill putting women who get abortions on death row is somehow fantasy because you really really really want to believe it , and then even try to characterize this as a game of Internet gotcha is just Craven. Truly Craven. Drink your long overdue glass of STFU juice and crawl out of this thread having forfeited ounce of dignity and respectability you ever had in Atlas. A truly deplorable performance throughout this thread of which you should be ashamed.

[Person Man]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

Answer my questions.

This is sad. Just say you support this or don’t because you don’t support the DP for civilian crimes and support life imprisonment instead and move on.

I don't support this bill since abortion has distinctions as a form of homicide that it makes sense for the law to be specific about how this distinctiveness should play out in the law, and I have views of what that should include which this bill does not.  But the faults of this bill do not somehow mean that women who get abortions are therefore going to be treated more harshly than 99% of those judged guilty of other criminal homicides in South Carolina, and claims that it will are propaganda.   Ok., moving on.

Agreed to a point. Most people who kill someone aren't going to get the death penalty. Probably more people are eventually going to be paroled than executed.

Then again, what if there is some group of activists or anarchist/left-wing militia that has performed hundreds of abortions illegally that the police and NG have been trying to round up for years? What if there is someone who has had several abortions (they had pregnancy complications or were just a lazy thot, it doesn't matter at this point) since the law happened. All of these people are now serial killers.

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

Not really. We understand Shua and perhaps technically agree with him but still assert that he is talking bs.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

Answer my questions.

This is sad. Just say you support this or don’t because you don’t support the DP for civilian crimes and support life imprisonment instead and move on.

I don't support this bill since abortion has distinctions as a form of homicide that it makes sense for the law to be specific about how this distinctiveness should play out in the law, and I have views of what that should include which this bill does not.  But the faults of this bill do not somehow mean that women who get abortions are therefore going to be treated more harshly than 99% of those judged guilty of other criminal homicides in South Carolina, and claims that it will are propaganda.   Ok., moving on.

Agreed to a point. Most people who kill someone aren't going to get the death penalty. Probably more people are eventually going to be paroled than executed.

Then again, what if there is some group of activists or anarchist/left-wing militia that has performed hundreds of abortions illegally that the police and NG have been trying to round up for years? What if there is someone who has had several abortions (they had pregnancy complications or were just a lazy thot, it doesn't matter at this point) since the law happened. All of these people are now serial killers.

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

Not really. We understand Shua and perhaps technically agree with him but still assert that he is talking bs.

I am talking bs but am technically correct. lol  well I'll take what I can get.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

Exactly. That's why shua's entire act is so insultingly dishonest.

What's dishonest is pretending to care about women in South Carolina supposedly at risk of getting the death penalty when you really just want an excuse to be a jerk to people you disagree with.

No you disingenuous twit. I and every other person arguing against this bill in this thread are genuinely frightfully concerned for women in South Carolina who disagree with your fetus fetish about whether or not life begins a conception or not and are driven to get an abortion might actually be up for the death penalty, and if they're " lucky" they'll  be "allowed " 20 to life.

This entire thread you have been a thoroughly dishonest to an outright laughable degree. And now to accuse others in this thread of just trying to score points other than, God forbid not wanting to see women sent into prison for life or the electric chair for trying to control their own reproduction which offends you so highly, is just the final straw. Take the L, big guy. We get it that you believe 2 + 2 = 5 and nothing will change your pig-headed mind on the subject.

If you had a scintilla of backbone or intellectual honesty you would either come out and say yes I am okay with women being put on death row for abortions, or at least stay hey I'm pro-life but this is too far, I only want to see women tossed in prison for 15 or 20 years for such a thing because I'm one of the "nice" patriarchs. Sadly, in this thread you've demonstrated neither, instead attempted to play the socratic equivalent of patty cake and plugging your ears going "la la la la.la la I can't hear you!!"

Seriously, your attempts to deny that this bill putting women who get abortions on death row is somehow fantasy because you really really really want to believe it , and then even try to characterize this as a game of Internet gotcha is just Craven. Truly Craven. Drink your long overdue glass of STFU juice and crawl out of this thread having forfeited ounce of dignity and respectability you ever had in Atlas. A truly deplorable performance throughout this thread of which you should be ashamed.

You've spent way more time insulting me than you have in trying to provide evidence that women are going to suffer because of this bill or specifying how it would occur. You even moved the goalposts from capital punishment to several years in prison when it suited you. No, I don't support either of those for women who've had abortions, but it seems like an important difference if women are actually going to go through one or the other. You find the difference immaterial. That is all I the evidence I need to see what it is you really care about.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I am talking bs but am technically correct. lol  well I'll take what I can get.

Why don't you just quit while you're ahead dude? Are you taking pleasure in all the abuse?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I am talking bs but am technically correct. lol  well I'll take what I can get.

Why don't you just quit while you're ahead dude? Are you taking pleasure in all the abuse?

[Landslide Lyndon]

I am talking bs but am technically correct. lol  well I'll take what I can get.

Why don't you just quit while you're ahead dude? Are you taking pleasure in all the abuse?

When a wise man points at the moon, an idiot looks at his finger. - Confucius

[Clarence Boddicker]

Yes, Republicans. Double down on the anti abortion craziness. Really hoped in the midterms!

[Person Man]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

Answer my questions.

This is sad. Just say you support this or don’t because you don’t support the DP for civilian crimes and support life imprisonment instead and move on.

I don't support this bill since abortion has distinctions as a form of homicide that it makes sense for the law to be specific about how this distinctiveness should play out in the law, and I have views of what that should include which this bill does not.  But the faults of this bill do not somehow mean that women who get abortions are therefore going to be treated more harshly than 99% of those judged guilty of other criminal homicides in South Carolina, and claims that it will are propaganda.   Ok., moving on.

Agreed to a point. Most people who kill someone aren't going to get the death penalty. Probably more people are eventually going to be paroled than executed.

Then again, what if there is some group of activists or anarchist/left-wing militia that has performed hundreds of abortions illegally that the police and NG have been trying to round up for years? What if there is someone who has had several abortions (they had pregnancy complications or were just a lazy thot, it doesn't matter at this point) since the law happened. All of these people are now serial killers.

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

Not really. We understand Shua and perhaps technically agree with him but still assert that he is talking bs.

I am talking bs but am technically correct. lol  well I'll take what I can get.

I mean you are correct, most women who get abortions will eventually be freed, but so what? At least one will eventually be executed.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

It doesn't bring me pleasure to say that if they enact these policies, one of the best ways to fight them is going to be to test the law by breaking it without shame and be willing to suffer the consequences.

Because, otherwise, I don't know how you try to persuade someone who would vote for this violent misogyny that it's wrong. There's zero discussion one can have with such a person. We've already seen it above, they're either intentionally blind to the results we've seen historically of these policies or they simply want to be ignorant of it cause they can't face the reality of the repercussions this will have for women.

And those repercussions are a fact. We've seen it historically, and we're already seeing it here in Texas where a group of women who were denied life-saving abortions are suing the state government. This is even worse.

Won't lie that laws like this making a re-run in the 21st century is pushing me into despair somewhat. I don't know how we come back from this if this starts becoming the new normal.

Other than staying loud about fighting for the rights of my family and friends who are women in this country. And protesting + voting like hell at every opportunity I get.

[Person Man]

It doesn't bring me pleasure to say that if they enact these policies, one of the best ways to fight them is going to be to test the law by breaking it without shame and be willing to suffer the consequences.

Because, otherwise, I don't know how you try to persuade someone who would vote for this violent misogyny that it's wrong. There's zero discussion one can have with such a person. We've already seen it above, they're either intentionally blind to the results we've seen historically of these policies or they simply want to be ignorant of it cause they can't face the reality of the repercussions this will have for women.

And those repercussions are a fact. We've seen it historically, and we're already seeing it here in Texas where a group of women who were denied life-saving abortions are suing the state government. This is even worse.

Won't lie that laws like this making a re-run in the 21st century is pushing me into despair somewhat. I don't know how we come back from this if this starts becoming the new normal.

Other than staying loud about fighting for the rights of my family and friends who are women in this country. And protesting + voting like hell at every opportunity I get.

Protest will need to become resistance or make peace. Like I said, there needs to be the exploration of jury nullification. If these laws are that important, would they be willing to end due process?

[Hermit For Peace]

Hopefully this is the dying gasp of that misguided mindset that wants to control women's bodies. They are trying more and more desperate measures to do that, but in the long run, they do not have the backing of the majority of the country. These outdates beliefs and practices belong in the 1800s.

[Badger]

Even if we make obtusly optimistic assumptions about the implementation of this law, are we really supposed to be any more pleased that women charged with capital murder for getting an abortion might "only" be sentenced to (e.g) 20 to life instead??

Exactly. That's why shua's entire act is so insultingly dishonest.

What's dishonest is pretending to care about women in South Carolina supposedly at risk of getting the death penalty when you really just want an excuse to be a jerk to people you disagree with.

No you disingenuous twit. I and every other person arguing against this bill in this thread are genuinely frightfully concerned for women in South Carolina who disagree with your fetus fetish about whether or not life begins a conception or not and are driven to get an abortion might actually be up for the death penalty, and if they're " lucky" they'll  be "allowed " 20 to life.

This entire thread you have been a thoroughly dishonest to an outright laughable degree. And now to accuse others in this thread of just trying to score points other than, God forbid not wanting to see women sent into prison for life or the electric chair for trying to control their own reproduction which offends you so highly, is just the final straw. Take the L, big guy. We get it that you believe 2 + 2 = 5 and nothing will change your pig-headed mind on the subject.

If you had a scintilla of backbone or intellectual honesty you would either come out and say yes I am okay with women being put on death row for abortions, or at least stay hey I'm pro-life but this is too far, I only want to see women tossed in prison for 15 or 20 years for such a thing because I'm one of the "nice" patriarchs. Sadly, in this thread you've demonstrated neither, instead attempted to play the socratic equivalent of patty cake and plugging your ears going "la la la la.la la I can't hear you!!"

Seriously, your attempts to deny that this bill putting women who get abortions on death row is somehow fantasy because you really really really want to believe it , and then even try to characterize this as a game of Internet gotcha is just Craven. Truly Craven. Drink your long overdue glass of STFU juice and crawl out of this thread having forfeited ounce of dignity and respectability you ever had in Atlas. A truly deplorable performance throughout this thread of which you should be ashamed.

You've spent way more time insulting me than you have in trying to provide evidence that women are going to suffer because of this bill or specifying how it would occur. You even moved the goalposts from capital punishment to several years in prison when it suited you. No, I don't support either of those for women who've had abortions, but it seems like an important difference if women are actually going to go through one or the other. You find the difference immaterial. That is all I the evidence I need to see what it is you really care about.

No you contrarian hack. I'm insulting your views and rampant dishonesty. There is no debate about women suffering under this bill when it literally says they would be eligible for execution under the law! Only someone arguing and complete bad faith or a literal illiterate, and I'll assume for benefit of argument you're merely the former, would seriously clean this.

And no, I have never once so-called moved the goal posts here. This bill explicitly says execution! Death penalty! Explain exactly how you say the death penalty doesn't actually mean the death penalty but could just mean 30 lashes with a wet noodle? You can't explain this because that's what it says in black and white, genius! My only point is that with the threat of a death penalty suddenly these women will might be offered, emphasis MIGHT, plea Bargains which "merely" result in them doing life without parole or maybe release after 20 to 30 years. I'm going to break this down into nice tiny little words so that even you can't misconstrue them. My point here is first, no, that is by no means a given and some women according to prosecutorial discretion can and will be subject to the death penalty under this law, period end of sentence. Secondly, if you somehow think it's a good thing that women will only see sentences of 20 years, 30 years, life imprisonment as a result of plea negotiations arising out of this horrendous literal hands-made tail level law, then that is every bit as grotesque and utterly reprehensible of you as saying put them to death.

The only key here, big mouth, is that you have the other lack of backbone to Simply acknowledge that yes, what this bill says it's going to do will actually happen if it is passed. You further lack the moral fortitude to acknowledge either that you support it, or that you think at least 20 years plus let alone the death penalty is too tough. We get. You're perfectly okay with this outcome. And that's why you are sneered at quite justifiably throughout this thread, in your own disingenuousness doesn't help.