Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: coalition agreement presented

[DavidB.]

Derailing my own thread where I frequently make effortposts while you, just like in so many other threads, get your facts wrong? Woo, okay!

[Zinneke]

Derailing my own thread where I frequently make effortposts while you get your facts wrong? Woo, okay!

Derailing subjects you conveniently decide to ignore seems more like your kind of game.

[DavidB.]

I conveniently ignore... what, exactly? We've been having this discussion about the PVV and its donors countless times. You have not provided any new facts. I have not seen a reason to change my stance. Simple as that.

It seems to me, though, as if the last poll is more interesting. For the first time in this campaign, it seems there is a real possibility that CDA, D66 or GL may become the largest party. Rutte must be sweating like a dog.

[Zinneke]

Here is a fact :

https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/detail?id=2016Z22739&did=2016D46550

[DavidB.]

Here is a fact :

https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/detail?id=2016Z22739&did=2016D46550

Okay? And?

[Zinneke]

Here is a fact :

https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/detail?id=2016Z22739&did=2016D46550

Okay? And?

THe hysteria you posted about DENK, when it was one of their members who proposed a law to ban foreign funding of Dutch political parties.

Parties who voted against the law:

PVV
VVD
CDA
CU
SGP

Surprise, surprise, bar the CDA they are Atlantacist and on conservative America´s good books.
Meanwhile, Wilders camps outside the Turkish embassy demanding Turks do not interfere with domestic Dutch society.

[DavidB.]

Hysteria about DENK? I don't think that word accurately describes my posts on that party, but who cares if you're trying to win a flame war, right? What's more, I don't think I have ever claimed DENK are financed from abroad (nor that this would be why they are a problematic party), so I'm unsure why this post is addressed to me. I do not oppose Dutch parties being funded from abroad. I also do not support Wilders' protest at the Turkish embassy and have voiced my disapproval of political parties' posturing on this subject in this very thread just a few days ago. A+ in strawmanning.

[Zinneke]

Hysteria about DENK? I don't think that word accurately describes my posts on that party, but who cares if you're trying to win a flame war, right? What's more, I don't think I have ever claimed DENK are financed from abroad (nor that this would be why they are a problematic party), so I'm unsure why this post is addressed to me. I do not oppose Dutch parties being funded from abroad. I also do not support Wilders' protest at the Turkish embassy and have voiced my disapproval of political parties' posturing on this subject in this very thread just a few days ago. A+ in strawmanning.

Its not you that's guilty of hypocrisy (even if there is a 60% chance you are going to vote for them), its the PVV.

[Lord Halifax]

Supporting Israel is hardly a neo-Conservative policy.

It is neocon policy but it is not solely neocon, which is exactly why it seems to me that Rogier uses the word neocon as a synonym for Jew.

It is neo-Con policy, but not "a neo-Con policy", those two things are not synonymous.   

[DavidB.]

Supporting Israel is hardly a neo-Conservative policy.

It is neocon policy but it is not solely neocon, which is exactly why it seems to me that Rogier uses the word neocon as a synonym for Jew.

It is neo-Con policy, but not "a neo-Con policy", those two things are not synonymous.  

You're right (and in my previous post I agreed with you anyway).

[ApatheticAustrian]

The far-right and the far-left both use "neo-liberal" and "neo-con" as synonyms for "jewish". Which is why both extreme-frings groups are the greatest danger for all of us, for liberalism and ofc also for israel.

[Zinneke]

The far-right and the far-left both use "neo-liberal" and "neo-con" as synonyms for "jewish". Which is why both extreme-frings groups are the greatest danger for all of us, for liberalism and ofc also for israel.

Neo-conservatism is a specific political movement within US politics, with certain values, of which policy towards Israel is only a fraction of them, and if so, merely an application in international policy. You can find all this in the works of Yuen Foong Khong. While Wilders himself is not a neo-con (another strawman DavidB is trying to prop up), he is at the service of this political movement, which has amongst other policies, American hegemony over Europe.

Neo-liberalism is a more contested concept, I'll admit. I associate it with VVD's idea of conservative-liberalism, that is, a liberalism that places heavy emphasis on the individual responsibility aspect of classical liberalism as an ideological tenet, and heavily criticises the idea of society (Thatcher is another example). But people have different associations of what neo-liberalism is. I have yet to hear anybody associate neo-liberalism with the Jews though.

And please, keep Israel-Palestine issue out of the Dutch election thread.

 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I have yet to hear anybody associate neo-liberalism with the Jews though.

Pretty common on the Trot parts of the internet, alas.

Anyway, the election...

[DavidB.]

And please, keep Israel-Palestine issue out of the Dutch election thread.

This is the height of dishonesty, dude. You are the one who keeps doing this. You are the one coming up with the double loyalty canard and the edgy DENK parallel everytime I post something about either the PVV or DENK, and I, as opposed to you, actually contribute stuff to this thread otherwise. You need to stop.

Beter zwijgen als ge niets over weet

[Zinneke]

And please, keep Israel-Palestine issue out of the Dutch election thread.

This is the height of dishonesty, dude. You are the one who keeps doing this. You are the one coming up with the double loyalty canard and the edgy DENK parallel everytime I post something about either the PVV or DENK, and I, as opposed to you, actually contribute stuff to this thread otherwise. You need to stop.

Beter zwijgen als ge niets over weet

No, man, I'm pretty sure the first flare up of your identity that you so desperatley need to share was because we were talking about Turks who had allegiances with the AKP, which had paralells to your situation as an Israeli-Dutch dual citizen. Regardless the AKP was big issue at the time, then you turned into an issue solely about being Jewish, when that wasn't the subject. And now yet again, you have derailed another big issue in this campaign into the subject of Jewish identity, or anti-Semitism, which you seem to do on a consistent basis on this board.

And yes, you are an excellent poster otherwise, you provide good content, I am not questioning that. When Belgium comes into scrutiny maybe I can provide something like this, maybe not. But in the mean time I and the others here comment on here to add our views on the subjects at hand. If you want nobody to comment, start a blog and share it here

[DavidB.]

Kantar Public found that turnout would only be 67% if the election took place today, confirming political scientist Kees Aarts' impression that turnout will most likely be lower than in 2012. I expect some people to make up their minds next week, but would not be surprised if turnout eventually dips below the 1998 all-time low of 73.4%. Reasons: voters don't know what is at stake, the campaign does not have a clear theme, most parties don't focus on one particular issue, and there is no two-horse race. PvdA leader Asscher, who today published a large ad in De Volkskrant in an attempt to court PvdA-2012 voters who are now inclined to vote GL or D66, already said he is afraid many left-wing voters will stay home (though I think it is mainly the PVV who should be very scared right now).

Tonight, a one-on-one debate in EenVandaag between Roemer and Asscher took place. I didn't watch, but judging by the newspapers it was exactly what one would expect it to be. Asscher refused to rule out cooperating with the VVD after the election.

[DavidB.]

I&O has a tool that shows the amount of support parties have among certain demographics on the basis of the last poll. Treat with caution.

Interesting finding: women are much more likely to still being undecided than men.

[Tender Branson]

The Dutch government has banned the entry of the Turkish foreign minister by revoking the landing permit for his plane ...

He wanted to give a large rally in front of Dutch-Turks in Rotterdam, after which the mayor there said he can go and f**k himself. The Turkish foreign minister then said he'll still campaign there, which led the Dutch government to issue the landing ban.

Turkey and Erdogan now calls the Netherlands "Nazi" and "Fascists" and that they will "retaliate" against the Netherlands ...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/turkish-foreign-minister-determined-visit-netherlands-46063981

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

"I'm still coming!"
"No, you're not."

[Bumaye]

He wanted to give a large rally in front of Dutch-Turks in Rotterdam, after which the mayor there said he can go and f**k himself. 
   
Turkey and Erdogan now calls the Netherlands "Nazi" and "Fascists" and that they will "retaliate" against the Netherlands ...

   
 
Which is especially ridiculous when you realize that the mayor of Rotterdam is Ahmed Aboutaleb, a Muslim born in Morocco.

[DavidB.]

This is the language they understand. Was not a big supporter of all this initially, but I have to say that if he ends up not visiting the Netherlands, the government has handled this neatly. But that's a big "if". Apparently the Turkish FM now wants to fly to Brussels and then drive to Rotterdam. A nice example of why we need to revoke Schengen.

[Tender Branson]

He wanted to give a large rally in front of Dutch-Turks in Rotterdam, after which the mayor there said he can go and f**k himself. 
   
Turkey and Erdogan now calls the Netherlands "Nazi" and "Fascists" and that they will "retaliate" against the Netherlands ...

   
 
Which is especially ridiculous when you realize that the mayor of Rotterdam is Ahmed Aboutaleb, a Muslim born in Morocco.

Why would that be ridiculous ?

The mayor of Rotterdam, no matter if he's a Muslim or not, is serving the people of Rotterdam and he's not a slave to Erdogan and his Islamo-Fascist abettors ...

[Tender Branson]

This is the language they understand. Was not a big supporter of all this initially, but I have to say that if he ends up not visiting the Netherlands, the government has handled this neatly. But that's a big "if". Apparently the Turkish FM now wants to fly to Brussels and then drive to Rotterdam.

Damn, how I hate these Turkish agitators ...

[Zinneke]

Way to go, Turkey, handing this election on Rutte's lap.
This also bodes well for the refugee crisis.

[DavidB.]

Other news I forgot to post: candidate 24 on the GroenLinks list, Maya van der Steenhoven, yesterday said she would not assume her seat if elected after it became clear that she is the director of Sky Wing International Commercial Co, a shady business at the Seychelles mentioned in the Panama Papers. Incredible.

Meanwhile, Erdogan has called the Netherlands Nazis and fascists (after calling Germany Nazis earlier this week). Comedy gold.