COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[It’s so Joever]

I'll never understand why governors think it's okay to reopen now.

Also, I'm taking any information Oxford says with a truckload of salt. Wasn't their vaccine reported not to work?

We need to start reopening now. The damage of perpetual lockdown is not worth it.

Sure, but without widespread contact tracing, mask orders, and social distancing being enforced in public spaces, reopening would make things worse.

[It’s so Joever]

I still don’t understand why Trump doesn’t make MAGA masks...
They would honestly be a great way to protect yourself and your voter base from disease while also owning the libs.

[It’s so Joever]

I'll never understand why governors think it's okay to reopen now.

Also, I'm taking any information Oxford says with a truckload of salt. Wasn't their vaccine reported not to work?

We need to start reopening now. The damage of perpetual lockdown is not worth it.

Sure, but without widespread contact tracing, mask orders, and social distancing being enforced in public spaces, reopening would make things worse.

I don't even disagree with you.

Although I do not entirely believe in mandatory mask orders.

Here’s the thing, I don’t want to have mask orders, nobody wants that except for a few masochists. However, it has become apparent that Americans are not going to wear masks unless they are made to do so. Due to our anti-intellectual culture, it seems when Americans are kindly asked to wear a mask, they instead do the opposite because they can (like little children) I don’t want to treat Americans like little children, but they are acting like such and give me no choice but to support mandatory mask orders.
Maybe where you live, people are wearing masks, but they aren’t here these days, even with our governor kindly advising people to wear masks.
 If we were a cohesive country with a populace that wore masks because it makes sense, we wouldn’t need this, but we aren’t.

[It’s so Joever]

If you take the position that the first Amendment applies to state governments, then I don't see how forcibly closing places of worship is constitutional. I think the first and 2nd Amendments are just too broad the way they're stated.

Here, Church services are possible again:

For example, St. Stephen's Cathedral in Vienna has a laser system at the entrance which counts people entering the Church with masks. No more than 300 are allowed inside:





https://www.keymedia.at/news/chronik/erster-gottesdienst-mit-maskenpflicht-im-stephansdom

This is why we needed to be stricter on the virus early on so we could look like this.

[It’s so Joever]

Glad the virus-truthers want to listen to the CDC without question now!
Since we are doing that, how about we have everyone wear a mask, slowly reopen (and revert back to shutdowns if cases spike), and social distance, like the CDC recommends?

[It’s so Joever]

It seems that some of the States which were relatively spared from the virus earlier are now beginning to see rises. NC, VA, and MN come to mind.

[It’s so Joever]

On a positive note, cases do seem to be lowering in many previously hit areas. New Jersey and New York stand out as particularly positive. Even my own State is starting to see some promising developments, as average new cases per day decline/are stagnant even as testing is ramping up (although we are still far behind nearly every other State)


That being said, several cities definitely are worrisome and should be monitored.
-Developments in DC/NoVa are also positive, but in the wrong way, as they now have the highest positivity rate.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/499195-birx-says-dc-has-highest-positivity-rate-for-coronavirus%3famp

-North Carolina has had a peak in new cases, with growth in the Greensboro-Winston Salem area.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/23/861561659/north-carolina-reports-highest-one-day-spike-of-covid-19-cases

-Montgomery is actually out of ICU beds. Patients have to be moved to Birmingham for an ICU bed.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/05/20/dire-situation-in-alabama-capital-icus-full-coronavirus-cases-double-in-may/amp/

-Chattanooga is seeing rapid growth in cases (this is also with increased testing so don’t worry too much)
https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2020/may/23/more-testing-brings-covid-19-case-surge-chatt/523717/

-Minneapolis is seeing ICU capacity being strained.
https://m.startribune.com/minnesota-health-officials-call-for-caution-after-news-of-twin-cities-icu-beds-filling-up/570710842/

Luckily, many major metro areas in the US are starting to see declines.
Trends are looking promising for most of the country, let’s hope it stays that way.

[It’s so Joever]

The linked article is very interesting, not that long, and worth a read.

https://twitter.com/mims/status/1264503963518468098

The only real shocking thing there are airplanes and schools.
Schools where I live are very dense and conducive towards spreading diseases in general. Airplanes are just disgusting, even before Covid-19 I always would feel uncomfortable in them. But maybe the fact that people associate those places with disease makes them more likely to be cautious (as opposed to a church or a bar)

[It’s so Joever]

Man, I just love it when people say we should have mask laws OUTDOORS, and keep these laws around until we find a vaccine.

I think we'll have a vaccine sooner than some people think, but what if we never have one?

Also, shouldn't official guidelines recommend moving activities outdoors as much as possible?

I say individual States should keep mask laws until new cases are near zero (in the State), given how easy it is to wear a mask/facial covering and that it does prevent droplet transmission. If that happens before a vaccine is distributed, I would be fine with not having mask laws. As for outdoors, it’s difficult to say, but I would still keep outdoor mask laws until cases drop dramatically.

[It’s so Joever]

Even though we are months removed, and the weather is now warm, in my head it still feels like it’s March. Anyone else?

Yeah people have wasted two months of their lives on this; fortunately, that’s starting to change now as lockdowns are being relaxed. 

"Wasted?"

I really don't get why people are acting like not being able to go to group events is "wasting" one's life. I've been carrying on with life pretty much as normal, though obviously not making impulse shopping trips. I can go to the park, I can read (libraries being closed is tough, but at least here they're open for curbside service), I can still talk to to people on the phone or even video chat, I can order delicious food from local restaurants, I can do crafts, I can train my pets, I can play video games, etc etc etc. Why is social distancing "wasting" life?

The mental health impacts of this are real and we must be aware of making sure we get the interaction we need, even if it's different than normal. But anyone who is "wasting" their life cannot blame the virus for it: there's plenty to do that doesn't require being in close proximity to others.

I can't help but compare people complaining about this to a spoiled child who has way more toys than they can ever play with complaining when some of the toys are taken away, even though there are still dozens in reach.

If I can’t go and hug every third person in the street while breathing heavily into their eyes, nose and mouth, my day is wasted.

[It’s so Joever]

Even though we are months removed, and the weather is now warm, in my head it still feels like it’s March. Anyone else?

Yeah people have wasted two months of their lives on this; fortunately, that’s starting to change now as lockdowns are being relaxed.  

The sad reality is that, for the vast majority of people, the percentage of their life that they miss out on due to fear of the coronavirus (including after lockdowns are formally over) will probably be greater than their percentage chance of dying, even if they contracted the coronavirus.

You know who else had their life “wasted”?










I guess being pro-life only matters when it’s to own the liberals on a political issue.
It appears the protestors against “baby-killers” want to kill the babies to keep the stock market running.

[It’s so Joever]

And by the way, just because you are young doesn’t mean you won’t get severely sick and require medical care. Younger people in developing countries are dying at alarming rates which proves that without proper medical care, you can die if you are younger. Good thing the hospital systems in the US have never been overwhelmed!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/washington-post-coronavirus-young-people-developing-world-2020-5%3famp

[It’s so Joever]

Even though we are months removed, and the weather is now warm, in my head it still feels like it’s March. Anyone else?

Yeah people have wasted two months of their lives on this; fortunately, that’s starting to change now as lockdowns are being relaxed.  

"Wasted?"

I really don't get why people are acting like not being able to go to group events is "wasting" one's life. I've been carrying on with life pretty much as normal, though obviously not making impulse shopping trips. I can go to the park, I can read (libraries being closed is tough, but at least here they're open for curbside service), I can still talk to to people on the phone or even video chat, I can order delicious food from local restaurants, I can do crafts, I can train my pets, I can play video games, etc etc etc. Why is social distancing "wasting" life?

The mental health impacts of this are real and we must be aware of making sure we get the interaction we need, even if it's different than normal. But anyone who is "wasting" their life cannot blame the virus for it: there's plenty to do that doesn't require being in close proximity to others.

I can't help but compare people complaining about this to a spoiled child who has way more toys than they can ever play with complaining when some of the toys are taken away, even though there are still dozens in reach.

Umm, no, most of what living life is requires being around other people.  Basically all you can do alone is distract yourself from the fact that you are alone with entertainment and stuff.  If you actually support social distancing (which has been a stupid concept from day 1), you could make every single one of those same arguments for seasonal flu.

Fortunately, I live in a place where people have brains and have largely given up on social distancing out of fear for a virus that is basically the flu in terms of death rate.

In fact, I've come to believe that the proper policy would have been literally the opposite of social distancing, where we encouraged everyone young and healthy to have even greater social contact than usual to try to hit herd immunity within a couple weeks or so while sparing the tiny minority of people for whom the coronavirus is actually a concern from the virus.

Yep, expose as many little kids as possible to a new virus with recorded long term health effects on even the asymptomatic. A virus that also causes a Kawasaki like disease and lung scarring (which is permanent)
That’s the smart way to approach this virus.

And by the way, the flu kills 60k people each year.
This virus killed 100k people in two and a half months and has devastated healthcare systems.

[It’s so Joever]

Right wing anti-lockdown Americans, please watch or listen to this video.

We could end coronavirus pandemic by July 4th

We can't "end" the pandemic, we may reduce it's numbers, but it will resurge in the winter no matter what. We should be fast forwarding to herd immunity.

Imho, we could have ended it back in early March, but as soon as it hit and spread through developing countries, it became impossible to prevent. By now it’s definitely impossible for us to end the pandemic without a vaccine/mutation/immunity.

[It’s so Joever]

Contact tracing is important, you won’t get everyone, but you can actually test the right people. Taiwan is doing it well.

[It’s so Joever]

2) contact tracing with enforced mandatory self-isolation is not a realistic outcome in the U.S. or any other Western democracy, and the social/political costs of such aren’t worth the risks.

Really? It worked pretty well here.

Greece is doing less testing than Kyrgyzstan (population adjusted, Greece ranks #81 in testing; the US ranks #36, ahead of Germany and Switzerland). 

So no, “your country” isn’t doing this.  Did you even watch the video?  No country is forcibly isolating all virus contacts

Circle A represents Greece having a contact tracing system.
Circle B represents testing per capita.

As you can see from this Venn Diagram, there is no overlap.

[It’s so Joever]

A country full of stupidity:

For the past 6 weeks we've seen a parade of these images and references to things like Georgia marching its citizens off to the morgue by opening up. The death rate in the US continues to go down, young people do not die from this, and things like 'we are so screwed' needlessly fear-mongers a population that is exhausted from the past quarters social and economic malaise.

Grow up.

You are kidding me.

Going to an overcrowded pool just for fun has nothing to do with the economy and you damn know it. It’s people like you who make it much more difficult to reopen. Instead of actually listening and social distancing+wearing masks while going back to work, you “grown-up” children demand to have your cake and eat it as well.
It’s absolutely ridiculous and honestly disgusting.
You want to reopen the economy, but don’t want to take the steps to make reopening safe and effective. This isn’t pro-economic growth, this is pro-death at its finest.

Now we aren’t even sacrificing grandma for the DOW anymore, we are sacrificing her so we can swim with a bunch of strangers in a pool.

[It’s so Joever]

Snake's post is weird and bad for other reasons but he is right in one sense: people should really be asking themselves why states that opened up early (like GA) haven't seen NY-like explosions in cases like many people were predicting, and what we can learn from that.

Like, at this point I'm fairly confident that stuff like Lake of the Ozarks isn't going to cause case explosions the same way that the Florida beaches being open hasn't lead to explosions. It's bad because it's slowing the decline in cases but it's not worth being hysterically upset over.

It’s honestly likely a mix of weather conditions (heat and humidity hinders the spread) and just plain luck.
If Australia sees an increase in cases after reopening while European countries don’t, we will know this is definitely a virus that follows a seasonal pattern. It also could just be that explosions take time to occur. Think about it, cases typically take anywhere around 7-14 days to even show, and testing takes more time both to get a test and for results to be processed. Considering how many cases in the US there already are, and how long it takes for these things to occur, it is possible (but unlikely in the case of Georgia) that we haven’t seen it yet. There was a tiny recent uptick in cases per day in GA according to NYT, while I think it’s just a blip, if it does grow, maybe that’s why.
Finally, these events such as the Ozark pool and the beaches are over reported. The vast majority of people care about this virus and still are at least trying to stay safe.

[It’s so Joever]

In a bit of good news today, the State of Colorado has only reported 95 new cases today.
This is the lowest number for the State since mid-March and while Monday usually is a low day here for some reason, it still is a piece of good news for the entire State.
If these trends continue up to next week, I will eat my crow for warning against reopening in our State.

[It’s so Joever]

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/15/856293764/french-drug-giant-sanofi-takes-heat-after-suggesting-u-s-may-get-1st-vaccine-acc
Great news for the US

The French Government is acting ridiculous. As the most hit country in the World right now, it makes sense to give the vaccine to the Americans first. If America did the same and the circumstances were reversed, the media would have a field day.
(Although to be honest, given how long a vaccine will take, America probably won’t be the most hard hit by then.)

[It’s so Joever]

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/15/856293764/french-drug-giant-sanofi-takes-heat-after-suggesting-u-s-may-get-1st-vaccine-acc
Great news for the US

The French Government is acting ridiculous. As the most hit country in the World right now, it makes sense to give the vaccine to the Americans first. If America did the same and the circumstances were reversed, the media would have a field day.
(Although to be honest, given how long a vaccine will take, America probably won’t be the most hard hit by then.)

Brazil will be the hardest hit, without question. I actually think at the end of the day they might end up with more deaths than us, if not cases too.

Brazil is possible given the government and context, although India/Mexico also seem like possible contenders in the future.

[It’s so Joever]

Anybody who doesnt wear a mask in public places should be arrested for reckless endangerment. Plain and simple.
And no that's not fascism, it's called saving lives! Right wingers should be ashamed of themselves.

No, just make sure they don’t get access to an ICU bed or a ventilator if they are a repeat offender and get sick. We can have them waive their rights to treatment if they break the laws. Besides, prisons can spread the disease rapidly and we don’t need to add to that mess.

[It’s so Joever]

Anybody who doesnt wear a mask in public places should be arrested for reckless endangerment. Plain and simple.
And no that's not fascism, it's called saving lives! Right wingers should be ashamed of themselves.

Anybody who demands jail time for people who choose not to wear masks in public should be stripped of their citizenship and deported. Since I cant make that happen, I'll settle for putting you on ignore. Later.

And you even dare call anyone else a partisan hack?

[It’s so Joever]

No it's called people who want to save lives vs people who care more about going to a football game then protecting people around them!

When did I say anything about football games? I could care less about the football games.

We have to have ideas that are realistic and workable.

I would also add that people aren't protesting against or criticizing the lockdown orders because they "care about football games" or "want to get a haircut." Many people's livelihoods are on the line if the economy is not reopened in due order, and this is to say nothing of the demonstrated psychological impacts which this is having for many. Essential surgeries have been delayed; the education of millions of children has been negatively affected; and unemployment rates have climbed to unprecedented levels. Bringing about the end of lockdown orders will alleviate the stresses that many are dealing with right now.

I’m sure a minority of the protestors are concerned about their jobs, but more of them seem to protesting out of some rather twisted idea of freedom/to own the media/libs/insert-group-here.

The economic damage of the lockdowns are real, but if that is truly what these people were concerned about, they would be more than happy to promote mask-wearing (so we don’t have to keep closed down) and to social distance so that they can get back to work without fear of a resurgence (and a potential second lockdown)
It’s common sense and has the added benefit of not killing granny.

Maybe I am expecting too much when I expect the working American to think rationally, but I just don’t think the protestors are really the ones who are suffering the most economically. It seems more like a middle finger to the “evil media/elites” than anything.

[It’s so Joever]

https://twitter.com/SquireForYou/status/1265553065056362497

Do we know what time of year the pneumonia deaths were? If those deaths were before March, would it mean coronavirus was already widespread in Florida very early in the year?

Probably.
We won’t know until we really have a reliable and well-distributed antibody test, but this definitely sticks out. While we did have a bad(ish) flu season this year as well, we also had bad flu seasons since 2013.
I would bet money on Florida having been hit earlier than previously thought. They are a major tourist hub and have large metropolitan areas.