Moderate Labor Caucus?

[YE]

The left split begins.

divides in Labor aren’t really ideological

[YE]

If the Feds and ACP were totally independent, they would run competing slates for the House instead of coordinating in hopes of electing a right-wing majority. Simple as that.

I am sure you guys would just love that too.

You see you know your strategy has failed when either way it works out Labor has the right by the balls. Not that I expect that reality to sway anybody.

Here is where I'd point to a race where an ACP candidate won over a lefty one because the Feds backed an ACP candidate but we've been so dominant that such situation hasn't happened

TOO MUCH WINNING.

[YE]

I don't see why your party should be immune from criticism just because it has finally turned on these poisonous elements at the last possible moment.

We haven't endorsed PiT in any elections since his Vice Presidency and at that time he was still pro-choice. Technically we didn't formally endorsed Fhtagn or Muaddib either, but even if we had Muaddib didn't say hardly anything in that chat except "Hi Doof" several times. You could make a case about Fhtagn her comments, which are problematic too, but the comments you mentioned specifically about women didn't come from her, they came from PiT.

Therefore to attribute his comments to us is completely unfair.

I have some big disagreements with Muaddib, like with the whole flag issue. But to his credit, his final action on the matter was an improvement of the original flag. He has been a great CoD Speaker and is one of the most active people in the game. If he had made the same comments as PiT I would not have endorsed him or voted for him.

As for Fhtagn, what coordination are you talking about? As she will tell you herself, nobody did jack crap for House until the election itself was underway. The votes she got, she got completely on her own, including her registered Federalist voters.

The problems didn't just start recently. It's hard to point to one thing in particular but it has seemed that the right in this game has resembled the RL GOP a bit, and I think the rise of the ACP has contributed to it. I don't dispute the GOTV bit at all given that the right wing GOTV was umm not the best and even if it was better, right wing GOTV is historically not anywhere near as centralized as the left's, but I do think the Feds haven't done enough to change that notion by finding a way to counter the ACP. Not to mention we've seen people like S019 and ASV leave the Feds after both being despised by the current ACP chair.

To many of us in Labor/Pax, seeing some on the right on the AFE board in recent days go like "Oh sh**t, we just lost an election 2/1 and portions of our side just might be too crazy" just feels overdue because we've observed it coming for a bit. Though to be fair, I don't know what goes on in private.

[YE]

I don't see why your party should be immune from criticism just because it has finally turned on these poisonous elements at the last possible moment.

We haven't endorsed PiT in any elections since his Vice Presidency and at that time he was still pro-choice. Technically we didn't formally endorsed Fhtagn or Muaddib either, but even if we had Muaddib didn't say hardly anything in that chat except "Hi Doof" several times. You could make a case about Fhtagn her comments, which are problematic too, but the comments you mentioned specifically about women didn't come from her, they came from PiT.

Therefore to attribute his comments to us is completely unfair.

I have some big disagreements with Muaddib, like with the whole flag issue. But to his credit, his final action on the matter was an improvement of the original flag. He has been a great CoD Speaker and is one of the most active people in the game. If he had made the same comments as PiT I would not have endorsed him or voted for him.

As for Fhtagn, what coordination are you talking about? As she will tell you herself, nobody did jack crap for House until the election itself was underway. The votes she got, she got completely on her own, including her registered Federalist voters.

Not to mention we've seen people like S019 and ASV leave the Feds after both being despised by the current ACP chair.

Not to mention PMasta, Bagel, Vern and Koopa.

Tbf the 2nd is still a registered Fed, and the 4th has had some ideological transformation as well.

[YE]

I don't really have anything more to say, Yankee. Feel free to PM me if you want to continue this conversation in private. The point I've been making for the past hour or so is that the Fed leadership made a conscious choice to support cultism and the hard right, and now you want to be able to claim the moral high ground on those issues. Fine. That you are dredging up examples from four years ago (of candidates who I opposed at the time) as proof that the left is also morally compromised doesn't really change anything.

I hope that the past few days are more than an aberration, and that we really will see an effort by moderates on the right to stand by their values and oppose candidates whose poisonous behavior makes the game worse for everyone. It wouldn't be the first time Atlasians were able to transcend party self-interest for the greater good —but I'll believe it when I see it.

It's like I didn't just make a speech 24 hours ago outlining exactly how the Party went wrong over the past two years including mentioning the very things you are mentioning now.

You have put words into my mouth, I was referring only to the comments made by PiT. I think I can claim some moral high ground on the notion of locking women in chains as I don't think many could reasonably construe any of our actions as condoning that. It is weird that the refutation of that would include "Feds supporting Fhtagn", someone who still takes issue with me using the words Chairman and Vice Chairman two years ago.  

My citation of the past events is for comparison purposes. Labor had a far bigger problem keeping their members from voting for radicals, then we do now but that said there are a number of Feds who vote for Fhtagn because they want to not because we asked them to. And as ASV confirms, much of the effort/coordination to the extent that it existed in some (not all) of the last four House cycles, consists of steering votes away from her.

Conservatives don't need to seek your permission or approval to exist in this game and we have always had solid conservatives, people like JCL and so on as well. They are an important part of this game, just as the far left is.  

What I am here to say is there is also a center right and a generic right that doesn't approve of the comments leaked, that prefers we not to treat trans people like crap and in general prefers that we respect people who play this game regardless of who or what they are.

If that's truly the case (and tbf you've provided some evidence I wasn't aware of previously), I just hope this will become evident in the next few months, assuming the far right continues down the current path. Actions speak louder than words.

[YE]

I don't see why your party should be immune from criticism just because it has finally turned on these poisonous elements at the last possible moment.

We haven't endorsed PiT in any elections since his Vice Presidency and at that time he was still pro-choice. Technically we didn't formally endorsed Fhtagn or Muaddib either, but even if we had Muaddib didn't say hardly anything in that chat except "Hi Doof" several times. You could make a case about Fhtagn her comments, which are problematic too, but the comments you mentioned specifically about women didn't come from her, they came from PiT.

Therefore to attribute his comments to us is completely unfair.

I have some big disagreements with Muaddib, like with the whole flag issue. But to his credit, his final action on the matter was an improvement of the original flag. He has been a great CoD Speaker and is one of the most active people in the game. If he had made the same comments as PiT I would not have endorsed him or voted for him.

As for Fhtagn, what coordination are you talking about? As she will tell you herself, nobody did jack crap for House until the election itself was underway. The votes she got, she got completely on her own, including her registered Federalist voters.

The problems didn't just start recently. It's hard to point to one thing in particular but it has seemed that the right in this game has resembled the RL GOP a bit, and I think the rise of the ACP has contributed to it. I don't dispute the GOTV bit at all given that the right wing GOTV was umm not the best and even if it was better, right wing GOTV is historically not anywhere near as centralized as the left's, but I do think the Feds haven't done enough to change that notion by finding a way to counter the ACP. Not to mention we've seen people like S019 and ASV leave the Feds after both being despised by the current ACP chair.

To many of us in Labor/Pax, seeing some on the right on the AFE board in recent days go like "Oh sh**t, we just lost an election 2/1 and portions of our side just might be too crazy" just feels overdue because we've observed it coming for a bit. Though to be fair, I don't know what goes on in private.

Again, you guys live in this world where stereotypes are ok. Idk what gives you the privilege to group everyone as the same but you need to grow up and stop playing games.

Even if we did gotv better, you guys would make up continuous lies as usual. We dont work with acp when it comes to house slates. If we did, you wouldnt have feds preffing the candidates they did in certain orders.


S019 and ASV left because they were cancer. ASV was an asshat who couldnt keep his mouth shut and constantly attacked people. Hes much more similar to you guys in this department. S019 never fit on the right and it's clear his transformation was nothing more than him revealing who he truly was. His positions werent right winged and he constantly tried to purge the party of people who werent moderate. Hes only succeeding in labor is more than likely because labor tells him to shut up.

Excuse me.

I really don't know what you're on about regarding stereotypes or "privilege" to group everyone as the same. What games are we playing? Is having a belief (with some reasoning attached above) about the coordination between two parties a game or a sterotype? And what lies? You seem rather salty rather than trying to have good faith dialogue, to be blunt.

As for the issues at hand, I'll try to address them. The Feds being bad at GOTV bit was a reply to the argument that fhtagn got herself elected and that there was no coordination between the two sides. That may be true but my point was that it doesn't disapprove the idea (now to be fair, others have used other examples to try to rebut this) since with such bad GOTV, coordination in general is presumably lacking in general. As for ASV and S019, I don't agree with them on everything obviously but I do think (maybe not S019 anymore but a few months ago, yes) in a balanced two party system considering the historical political leanings of Atlas, they'd tilt towards the right wing party, at least as a zombie.

[YE]

What even is this thread right now.

Truman's original point was him arguing how the Feds have propped up too many crazy candidates and warrants criticism for such. Then it somehow derailed to me arguing that despite Yankee claiming no coordination between ACP and the Feds last cycle (which tbf it's not the most hard to believe thing in the world), it certainly seemed like the case that the ACP had influence over the Feds from my observations. Then people got really freaky for some reason.

[YE]

What even is this thread right now.

Truman's original point was him arguing how the Feds have propped up too many crazy candidates and warrants criticism for such. Then it somehow derailed to me arguing that despite Yankee claiming no coordination between ACP and the Feds (which has been rebutted by many in here and tbf it's not the most hard to believe thing in the world), it certainly seemed like the case that the ACP had influence over the Feds from my observations. Then people got really freaky for some reason.

I never said that, YE. I said there was no coordination for HOUSE in October and also said we supported Muaddib.

You are factually misrepresenting my statements and that is part of why people are getting freaky.

Fair, I should have cleared up the last bit regarding the alleged period of no coordination. I stand corrected otherwise.

[YE]

What even is this thread right now.

Truman's original point was him arguing how the Feds have propped up too many crazy candidates and warrants criticism for such. Then it somehow derailed to me arguing that despite Yankee claiming no coordination between ACP and the Feds last cycle (which tbf it's not the most hard to believe thing in the world), it certainly seemed like the case that the ACP had influence over the Feds from my observations. Then people got really freaky for some reason.

Show us what candidates would warrant acp having influence over the feds.

AZ/fhtagn voters or fhtagn voters in general?

[YE]

Ninja got elected in December off the back of Labor votes

Ninja was part of the Federalist slate in December. All fed voters preffed him and he was pushed equally with all other candidates. Then at the very end Labor saw an opportunity to reduce the Feds to only 3 house seats and took it, and gave a few strategic votes to Ninja.

Uh, no he wasn't? (unless Feds were foolishly going for 6-3 in December, which I seriously doubt)

The Fed slate in December 2018 seems to have been: LT, AZ, TPH, Vern and Old School Republican. Furthermore, the wiki has a list of the votes by party affiliation.

Of Ninja's 11 first preference votes, not a single one came from a Federalist. He got 4 from his party (Alliance), 4 from Labor, 1 from PUP and 2 from other parties and independents.

Most of those voters came from Labor super later Day 3 IIRC once it was clear we kept the House. He wasn't really a Labor candidate; I remember arguing to save Vern instead of him (and we would have saved both anyway had Zaybay, TimTurner, and Pericles all voted on time).

[YE]

What even is this thread right now.

Truman's original point was him arguing how the Feds have propped up too many crazy candidates and warrants criticism for such. Then it somehow derailed to me arguing that despite Yankee claiming no coordination between ACP and the Feds last cycle (which tbf it's not the most hard to believe thing in the world), it certainly seemed like the case that the ACP had influence over the Feds from my observations. Then people got really freaky for some reason.

Show us what candidates would warrant acp having influence over the feds.

AZ/fhtagn voters or fhtagn voters in general?

What are you even talking about

People who voted:
AZ/fhtagn and registered as Fed.

Feds for fhtagn for House.