Moderate Labor Caucus?

[YE]

I don't see why your party should be immune from criticism just because it has finally turned on these poisonous elements at the last possible moment.

We haven't endorsed PiT in any elections since his Vice Presidency and at that time he was still pro-choice. Technically we didn't formally endorsed Fhtagn or Muaddib either, but even if we had Muaddib didn't say hardly anything in that chat except "Hi Doof" several times. You could make a case about Fhtagn her comments, which are problematic too, but the comments you mentioned specifically about women didn't come from her, they came from PiT.

Therefore to attribute his comments to us is completely unfair.

I have some big disagreements with Muaddib, like with the whole flag issue. But to his credit, his final action on the matter was an improvement of the original flag. He has been a great CoD Speaker and is one of the most active people in the game. If he had made the same comments as PiT I would not have endorsed him or voted for him.

As for Fhtagn, what coordination are you talking about? As she will tell you herself, nobody did jack crap for House until the election itself was underway. The votes she got, she got completely on her own, including her registered Federalist voters.

The problems didn't just start recently. It's hard to point to one thing in particular but it has seemed that the right in this game has resembled the RL GOP a bit, and I think the rise of the ACP has contributed to it. I don't dispute the GOTV bit at all given that the right wing GOTV was umm not the best and even if it was better, right wing GOTV is historically not anywhere near as centralized as the left's, but I do think the Feds haven't done enough to change that notion by finding a way to counter the ACP. Not to mention we've seen people like S019 and ASV leave the Feds after both being despised by the current ACP chair.

To many of us in Labor/Pax, seeing some on the right on the AFE board in recent days go like "Oh sh**t, we just lost an election 2/1 and portions of our side just might be too crazy" just feels overdue because we've observed it coming for a bit. Though to be fair, I don't know what goes on in private.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

I don't see why your party should be immune from criticism just because it has finally turned on these poisonous elements at the last possible moment.

We haven't endorsed PiT in any elections since his Vice Presidency and at that time he was still pro-choice. Technically we didn't formally endorsed Fhtagn or Muaddib either, but even if we had Muaddib didn't say hardly anything in that chat except "Hi Doof" several times. You could make a case about Fhtagn her comments, which are problematic too, but the comments you mentioned specifically about women didn't come from her, they came from PiT.

Therefore to attribute his comments to us is completely unfair.

I have some big disagreements with Muaddib, like with the whole flag issue. But to his credit, his final action on the matter was an improvement of the original flag. He has been a great CoD Speaker and is one of the most active people in the game. If he had made the same comments as PiT I would not have endorsed him or voted for him.

As for Fhtagn, what coordination are you talking about? As she will tell you herself, nobody did jack crap for House until the election itself was underway. The votes she got, she got completely on her own, including her registered Federalist voters.

Not to mention we've seen people like S019 and ASV leave the Feds after both being despised by the current ACP chair.

Not to mention PMasta, Bagel, Vern and Koopa.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

ASV was pushed out because Vern said he would leave if we didn't and we ended up losing both anyway.

I stood by ASV when it came to Fhtagn and that is why she left to form the ACP in the first place. We gave ASV numerous chances to change his ways, but when even the moderate members are demanding radical action, something had to give.  Vern was the tipping point though, not Fhtagn.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

And please, don't try to tell me the Feds and ACP have not been coordinating with re: the House since April. I'm not that dumb. It's incredibly obvious that electing fhtagn was part of the plan for getting a rightist majority in the House for the last several cycles, or y'all would have run five Federalist candidates instead of four. I may not be the brightest strategic mind out there, but I've been around long enough to know how slates are put together and what considerations go into a national election.

As someone who was involved in Fed internal machinations I can certainly confirm there was always some level of co-ordination between the Federalists and the ACP for House elections. Far less than Labor might imagine as the right basically gave up on winning the House after May but there was still always co-ordination mainly around trying to balance right-wing votes somewhat evenly.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And please, don't try to tell me the Feds and ACP have not been coordinating with re: the House since April. I'm not that dumb. It's incredibly obvious that electing fhtagn was part of the plan for getting a rightist majority in the House for the last several cycles, or y'all would have run five Federalist candidates instead of four. I may not be the brightest strategic mind out there, but I've been around long enough to know how slates are put together and what considerations go into a national election.

As someone who was involved in Fed internal machinations I can certainly confirm there was always some level of co-ordination between the Federalists and the ACP for House elections. Far less than Labor might imagine as the right basically gave up on winning the House after May but there was still always co-ordination mainly around trying to balance right-wing votes somewhat evenly.

And notice who always got to the quota and usually first.

[fhtagn]

I don't see why your party should be immune from criticism just because it has finally turned on these poisonous elements at the last possible moment.

We haven't endorsed PiT in any elections since his Vice Presidency and at that time he was still pro-choice. Technically we didn't formally endorsed Fhtagn or Muaddib either, but even if we had Muaddib didn't say hardly anything in that chat except "Hi Doof" several times. You could make a case about Fhtagn her comments, which are problematic too, but the comments you mentioned specifically about women didn't come from her, they came from PiT.

Therefore to attribute his comments to us is completely unfair.

I have some big disagreements with Muaddib, like with the whole flag issue. But to his credit, his final action on the matter was an improvement of the original flag. He has been a great CoD Speaker and is one of the most active people in the game. If he had made the same comments as PiT I would not have endorsed him or voted for him.

As for Fhtagn, what coordination are you talking about? As she will tell you herself, nobody did jack crap for House until the election itself was underway. The votes she got, she got completely on her own, including her registered Federalist voters.

Not to mention we've seen people like S019 and ASV leave the Feds after both being despised by the current ACP chair.

Not to mention PMasta, Bagel, Vern and Koopa.

Vern and I have literally never had any issues at all in the time we have both been in the game together.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't see why your party should be immune from criticism just because it has finally turned on these poisonous elements at the last possible moment.

We haven't endorsed PiT in any elections since his Vice Presidency and at that time he was still pro-choice. Technically we didn't formally endorsed Fhtagn or Muaddib either, but even if we had Muaddib didn't say hardly anything in that chat except "Hi Doof" several times. You could make a case about Fhtagn her comments, which are problematic too, but the comments you mentioned specifically about women didn't come from her, they came from PiT.

Therefore to attribute his comments to us is completely unfair.

I have some big disagreements with Muaddib, like with the whole flag issue. But to his credit, his final action on the matter was an improvement of the original flag. He has been a great CoD Speaker and is one of the most active people in the game. If he had made the same comments as PiT I would not have endorsed him or voted for him.

As for Fhtagn, what coordination are you talking about? As she will tell you herself, nobody did jack crap for House until the election itself was underway. The votes she got, she got completely on her own, including her registered Federalist voters.

Not to mention we've seen people like S019 and ASV leave the Feds after both being despised by the current ACP chair.

Not to mention PMasta, Bagel, Vern and Koopa.

Thats crap and you know. I  stood up to Fhtagn to defend you because frankly she was being ridiculous at that point and she left the server and formed ACP a day a or two later.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

And please, don't try to tell me the Feds and ACP have not been coordinating with re: the House since April. I'm not that dumb. It's incredibly obvious that electing fhtagn was part of the plan for getting a rightist majority in the House for the last several cycles, or y'all would have run five Federalist candidates instead of four. I may not be the brightest strategic mind out there, but I've been around long enough to know how slates are put together and what considerations go into a national election.

As someone who was involved in Fed internal machinations I can certainly confirm there was always some level of co-ordination between the Federalists and the ACP for House elections. Far less than Labor might imagine as the right basically gave up on winning the House after May but there was still always co-ordination mainly around trying to balance right-wing votes somewhat evenly.

And notice who always got to the quota and usually first.

Well the main thing we always did was constantly discourage Federalist zombies from voting for fhtagn because she has by far the highest name recognition and ACP members alone are enough to get her t quota.

[YE]

I don't see why your party should be immune from criticism just because it has finally turned on these poisonous elements at the last possible moment.

We haven't endorsed PiT in any elections since his Vice Presidency and at that time he was still pro-choice. Technically we didn't formally endorsed Fhtagn or Muaddib either, but even if we had Muaddib didn't say hardly anything in that chat except "Hi Doof" several times. You could make a case about Fhtagn her comments, which are problematic too, but the comments you mentioned specifically about women didn't come from her, they came from PiT.

Therefore to attribute his comments to us is completely unfair.

I have some big disagreements with Muaddib, like with the whole flag issue. But to his credit, his final action on the matter was an improvement of the original flag. He has been a great CoD Speaker and is one of the most active people in the game. If he had made the same comments as PiT I would not have endorsed him or voted for him.

As for Fhtagn, what coordination are you talking about? As she will tell you herself, nobody did jack crap for House until the election itself was underway. The votes she got, she got completely on her own, including her registered Federalist voters.

Not to mention we've seen people like S019 and ASV leave the Feds after both being despised by the current ACP chair.

Not to mention PMasta, Bagel, Vern and Koopa.

Tbf the 2nd is still a registered Fed, and the 4th has had some ideological transformation as well.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vern has always been my canary in the coal mine in terms of center-right Feds, which is why when he raised an issue I tended to take serious action but it wasn't just him when it came to ASV though. When he left in June/July I pressed the panic button, but YT and frankly Vern himself told me it was for different reasons.

Fhtagn certainly wasn't one of them.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And please, don't try to tell me the Feds and ACP have not been coordinating with re: the House since April. I'm not that dumb. It's incredibly obvious that electing fhtagn was part of the plan for getting a rightist majority in the House for the last several cycles, or y'all would have run five Federalist candidates instead of four. I may not be the brightest strategic mind out there, but I've been around long enough to know how slates are put together and what considerations go into a national election.

As someone who was involved in Fed internal machinations I can certainly confirm there was always some level of co-ordination between the Federalists and the ACP for House elections. Far less than Labor might imagine as the right basically gave up on winning the House after May but there was still always co-ordination mainly around trying to balance right-wing votes somewhat evenly.

And notice who always got to the quota and usually first.

Well the main thing we always did was constantly discourage Federalist zombies from voting for fhtagn because she has by far the highest name recognition and ACP members alone are enough to get her t quota.

You don't say!

[AustralianSwingVoter]

And certainly it's really silly I left solely because of my ideology. Bruhg is just as left-wing as me and he fits into the Feds pretty well. I was pushed out, quite rightly, because I only ever care about having entertainment in this game and am totally self-destructive in the process. And the same can be said for Suburban, only he wasn't intentionally self-destructive, he was just too thick to do as he was told and stop p*ssing off the conservatives.
If you're looking for ideological defections then PMasta, Vern (maybe??) and Koopa are much better examples.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I don't really have anything more to say, Yankee. Feel free to PM me if you want to continue this conversation in private. The point I've been making for the past hour or so is that the Fed leadership made a conscious choice to support cultism and the hard right, and now you want to be able to claim the moral high ground on those issues. Fine. That you are dredging up examples from four years ago (of candidates who I opposed at the time) as proof that the left is also morally compromised doesn't really change anything.

I hope that the past few days are more than an aberration, and that we really will see an effort by moderates on the right to stand by their values and oppose candidates whose poisonous behavior makes the game worse for everyone. It wouldn't be the first time Atlasians were able to transcend party self-interest for the greater good —but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't really have anything more to say, Yankee. Feel free to PM me if you want to continue this conversation in private. The point I've been making for the past hour or so is that the Fed leadership made a conscious choice to support cultism and the hard right, and now you want to be able to claim the moral high ground on those issues. Fine. That you are dredging up examples from four years ago (of candidates who I opposed at the time) as proof that the left is also morally compromised doesn't really change anything.

I hope that the past few days are more than an aberration, and that we really will see an effort by moderates on the right to stand by their values and oppose candidates whose poisonous behavior makes the game worse for everyone. It wouldn't be the first time Atlasians were able to transcend party self-interest for the greater good —but I'll believe it when I see it.

It's like I didn't just make a speech 24 hours ago outlining exactly how the Party went wrong over the past two years including mentioning the very things you are mentioning now.

You have put words into my mouth, I was referring only to the comments made by PiT. I think I can claim some moral high ground on the notion of locking women in chains as I don't think many could reasonably construe any of our actions as condoning that. It is weird that the refutation of that would include "Feds supporting Fhtagn", someone who still takes issue with me using the words Chairman and Vice Chairman two years ago.  

My citation of the past events is for comparison purposes. Labor had a far bigger problem keeping their members from voting for radicals, then we do now but that said there are a number of Feds who vote for Fhtagn because they want to not because we asked them to. And as ASV confirms, much of the effort/coordination to the extent that it existed in some (not all) of the last four House cycles, consists of steering votes away from her.

Conservatives don't need to seek your permission or approval to exist in this game and we have always had solid conservatives, people like JCL and so on as well. They are an important part of this game, just as the far left is.  

What I am here to say is there is also a center right and a generic right that doesn't approve of the comments leaked, that prefers we not to treat trans people like crap and in general prefers that we respect people who play this game regardless of who or what they are.

[YE]

I don't really have anything more to say, Yankee. Feel free to PM me if you want to continue this conversation in private. The point I've been making for the past hour or so is that the Fed leadership made a conscious choice to support cultism and the hard right, and now you want to be able to claim the moral high ground on those issues. Fine. That you are dredging up examples from four years ago (of candidates who I opposed at the time) as proof that the left is also morally compromised doesn't really change anything.

I hope that the past few days are more than an aberration, and that we really will see an effort by moderates on the right to stand by their values and oppose candidates whose poisonous behavior makes the game worse for everyone. It wouldn't be the first time Atlasians were able to transcend party self-interest for the greater good —but I'll believe it when I see it.

It's like I didn't just make a speech 24 hours ago outlining exactly how the Party went wrong over the past two years including mentioning the very things you are mentioning now.

You have put words into my mouth, I was referring only to the comments made by PiT. I think I can claim some moral high ground on the notion of locking women in chains as I don't think many could reasonably construe any of our actions as condoning that. It is weird that the refutation of that would include "Feds supporting Fhtagn", someone who still takes issue with me using the words Chairman and Vice Chairman two years ago.  

My citation of the past events is for comparison purposes. Labor had a far bigger problem keeping their members from voting for radicals, then we do now but that said there are a number of Feds who vote for Fhtagn because they want to not because we asked them to. And as ASV confirms, much of the effort/coordination to the extent that it existed in some (not all) of the last four House cycles, consists of steering votes away from her.

Conservatives don't need to seek your permission or approval to exist in this game and we have always had solid conservatives, people like JCL and so on as well. They are an important part of this game, just as the far left is.  

What I am here to say is there is also a center right and a generic right that doesn't approve of the comments leaked, that prefers we not to treat trans people like crap and in general prefers that we respect people who play this game regardless of who or what they are.

If that's truly the case (and tbf you've provided some evidence I wasn't aware of previously), I just hope this will become evident in the next few months, assuming the far right continues down the current path. Actions speak louder than words.

[Former President tack50]

I was wonder if there are any Labor members that would like to start a Moderate Caucus in the Labor Party? If so, we can come up with a name and platform. Just an idea, so tell me what you guys think.

To answer your question, the Labor party is a lot more homogenous than the Federalist Party for a variety of reasons, so has never been an incentive to create a caucus system.

I would personally not be opposed to it though, I imagine at least 2 main ones would be formed (a moderate "New Democrat" type caucus and some sort of Socialist caucus). However the differences between radical and moderate Laborites are small enough that it might not be needed. The difference between say, Pyro and Wulfric or S019 is smaller than the differences between Reagente, Brugh (or RC if you think Brugh doesn't count) and Deadprez for example.

[lfromnj]

Moderate labour as in die by starvation rather than mass executions?
/s

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I think the idea of caucuses inside one party is a good idea. It would prevent the rise of third parties or the need for them, and constructive criticism can be given from either wing of the party. I'm strongly in favour of that.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

I think the idea of caucuses inside one party is a good idea. It would prevent the rise of third parties or the need for them, and constructive criticism can be given from either wing of the party. I'm strongly in favour of that.

Or people can just not create third parties and deal with the fact that we have differences

[Adam Griffin]

Poor Vern: asks a question, gets a s[inks]t-show.

At any rate, I have plenty of thoughts to contribute - at some point later, though. Lots of action here over the past 12 hours to read!

[Yellowhammer]

I don't really have anything more to say, Yankee. Feel free to PM me if you want to continue this conversation in private. The point I've been making for the past hour or so is that the Fed leadership made a conscious choice to support cultism and the hard right, and now you want to be able to claim the moral high ground on those issues. Fine. That you are dredging up examples from four years ago (of candidates who I opposed at the time) as proof that the left is also morally compromised doesn't really change anything.

I hope that the past few days are more than an aberration, and that we really will see an effort by moderates on the right to stand by their values and oppose candidates whose poisonous behavior makes the game worse for everyone. It wouldn't be the first time Atlasians were able to transcend party self-interest for the greater good —but I'll believe it when I see it.

It's like I didn't just make a speech 24 hours ago outlining exactly how the Party went wrong over the past two years including mentioning the very things you are mentioning now.

You have put words into my mouth, I was referring only to the comments made by PiT. I think I can claim some moral high ground on the notion of locking women in chains as I don't think many could reasonably construe any of our actions as condoning that. It is weird that the refutation of that would include "Feds supporting Fhtagn", someone who still takes issue with me using the words Chairman and Vice Chairman two years ago.  

My citation of the past events is for comparison purposes. Labor had a far bigger problem keeping their members from voting for radicals, then we do now but that said there are a number of Feds who vote for Fhtagn because they want to not because we asked them to. And as ASV confirms, much of the effort/coordination to the extent that it existed in some (not all) of the last four House cycles, consists of steering votes away from her.

Conservatives don't need to seek your permission or approval to exist in this game and we have always had solid conservatives, people like JCL and so on as well. They are an important part of this game, just as the far left is.  

What I am here to say is there is also a center right and a generic right that doesn't approve of the comments leaked, that prefers we not to treat trans people like crap and in general prefers that we respect people who play this game regardless of who or what they are.

If that's truly the case (and tbf you've provided some evidence I wasn't aware of previously), I just hope this will become evident in the next few months, assuming the far right continues down the current path. Actions speak louder than words.

Besides me, there is basically 0 far-right presence on this forum

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I think the idea of caucuses inside one party is a good idea. It would prevent the rise of third parties or the need for them, and constructive criticism can be given from either wing of the party. I'm strongly in favour of that.

Or people can just not create third parties and deal with the fact that we have differences

What am i doing right now? I've given up my third party to be included and accepted in Labour. That will take some time, but it's okay. But I will be a Labor member with an independent streak, and i don't think that's any problem, since i'm naturally left-wing.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

I think the idea of caucuses inside one party is a good idea. It would prevent the rise of third parties or the need for them, and constructive criticism can be given from either wing of the party. I'm strongly in favour of that.

Or people can just not create third parties and deal with the fact that we have differences

What am i doing right now? I've given up my third party to be included and accepted in Labour. That will take some time, but it's okay. But I will be a Labor member with an independent streak, and i don't think that's any problem, since i'm naturally left-wing.

Having an independent streak is fine so long as you are a team player, I mean I don't agree with labor on everything for sure, I am more moderate on things like guns and abortion, but I try to be a team player.

[Vern]

Well, since only like three people responded to my question. I'm guessing there aren't many people that would want to do this.

[Saint Milei]

I don't see why your party should be immune from criticism just because it has finally turned on these poisonous elements at the last possible moment.

We haven't endorsed PiT in any elections since his Vice Presidency and at that time he was still pro-choice. Technically we didn't formally endorsed Fhtagn or Muaddib either, but even if we had Muaddib didn't say hardly anything in that chat except "Hi Doof" several times. You could make a case about Fhtagn her comments, which are problematic too, but the comments you mentioned specifically about women didn't come from her, they came from PiT.

Therefore to attribute his comments to us is completely unfair.

I have some big disagreements with Muaddib, like with the whole flag issue. But to his credit, his final action on the matter was an improvement of the original flag. He has been a great CoD Speaker and is one of the most active people in the game. If he had made the same comments as PiT I would not have endorsed him or voted for him.

As for Fhtagn, what coordination are you talking about? As she will tell you herself, nobody did jack crap for House until the election itself was underway. The votes she got, she got completely on her own, including her registered Federalist voters.

The problems didn't just start recently. It's hard to point to one thing in particular but it has seemed that the right in this game has resembled the RL GOP a bit, and I think the rise of the ACP has contributed to it. I don't dispute the GOTV bit at all given that the right wing GOTV was umm not the best and even if it was better, right wing GOTV is historically not anywhere near as centralized as the left's, but I do think the Feds haven't done enough to change that notion by finding a way to counter the ACP. Not to mention we've seen people like S019 and ASV leave the Feds after both being despised by the current ACP chair.

To many of us in Labor/Pax, seeing some on the right on the AFE board in recent days go like "Oh sh**t, we just lost an election 2/1 and portions of our side just might be too crazy" just feels overdue because we've observed it coming for a bit. Though to be fair, I don't know what goes on in private.

Again, you guys live in this world where stereotypes are ok. Idk what gives you the privilege to group everyone as the same but you need to grow up and stop playing games.

Even if we did gotv better, you guys would make up continuous lies as usual. We dont work with acp when it comes to house slates. If we did, you wouldnt have feds preffing the candidates they did in certain orders.


S019 and ASV left because they were cancer. ASV was an asshat who couldnt keep his mouth shut and constantly attacked people. Hes much more similar to you guys in this department. S019 never fit on the right and it's clear his transformation was nothing more than him revealing who he truly was. His positions werent right winged and he constantly tried to purge the party of people who werent moderate. Hes only succeeding in labor is more than likely because labor tells him to shut up.