Atlasia-Turkey Free Trade Bill (Law'd)

[MasterJedi]

Atlasia-Turkey Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Turkey.

2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.
Spon: Sen. MasterJedi

[afleitch]

I have no issues with this bill or see a need for any amendments. There is also a normalised free trade arrangement between the EU and Turkey.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I have no love for this trade agreement. Will most likely vote against. (In a crunch for time at the moment, will explain more later.)

[Purple State]

Turkey has undergone major advances in the move towards Islamic secularization. I support improving trade relations with them.

[Хahar 🤔]

The Turkish definition of secularization is suppression of religion.

[Purple State]

The Turkish definition of secularization is suppression of religion.

Better than the Saudi definition.

Not that this is justification for free trade. But opening up relations with Turkey will help bring it out of the grips of extremism and help further modernize the nation.

[Хahar 🤔]

The Turkish definition of secularization is suppression of religion.

Better than the Saudi definition.

Is that what we're comparing it to?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I fully support this. Free Trade benefits our economy and it benefits other economies as well.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Again, I encourage support to anger our SoEA

[tmthforu94]

I support this bill. Free trade helps our economy, as well as other nations.

[MaxQue]

I am on the fence now. Undecided.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I fail to see any reason to even try to rally opposition, since the consensus in this body is apparently "FREE TRADE GOOD FREE TRADE GOOD" without question.

[Fritz]

Marokai, you explained your opposition to free trade in general to me, in a very lengthy and eloquently written PM just before I was elected.  I sympathise with many of the points you made to me; however, if you want to convince me to vote against this, you will need to explain specifically how it applies to Turkey.  I will tend to favor free trade agreements, unless there is good reason not to.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Marokai, you explained your opposition to free trade in general to me, in a very lengthy and eloquently written PM just before I was elected.  I sympathise with many of the points you made to me; however, if you want to convince me to vote against this, you will need to explain specifically how it applies to Turkey.  I will tend to favor free trade agreements, unless there is good reason not to.

Ah.

Well, my only problem with Turkey is that they're not exactly a free or liberal society, and it has a tendency to censor, or crack down on undesirable organizations (Like gay rights groups, even though homosexuality is not illegal there). As someone said, just because it's not a theocracy doesn't mean that it's a free and fair state, it just leads to suppression of undesirable groups.

It's not a very stable place, with alot more infighting recently over the place of Islam in the government. And low, almost non-existant levels, of unionization make me worry that we would be sending the wrong message to simply pass a free trade agreement unfettered. The US developed mostly on our own, and because of that we realized the problems in our workplaces, we worked to remedy those problems, unions grew to combat the unfairness in the workplace, regulations were laid on businesses to protect and encourage fair labor practices. By sending our businesses (and some of our manufacturing work) elsewhere, we encourage an economy to grow without these protections.

Alot of people say that as their economy grows, they can make regulations of their own and will eventually correct these problems. I see two faults with such a statement. One: They rarely do. Often it leads to no trade at all, or violent demonstrations. Coups, rebellion, nationalization of industry, etc. This is caused by Two: International corporate entities discourage such, and can gain favor with influential figures in American and local politics in the target country. What non-first-world countries have we ever agreed to trade with later abolished child labor? Implemented fair labor practices and enforced them? Can anyone name three? One?

Free trade fosters peace, if countries roll over and accept our economic invasion, if people don't care about the race to the bottom and become our slave labor with a smile on their faces. But once countries want to change or do something that is not in our businesses self-interest, as they inevitably do, you have undesirable and violent movements spark, and this is part of the reason why South American socialism and near-fascism war with each other, and some who react violently to our influence. (When Bolivia tried to privatize their water, for instance, this resulted in what was essentially open rebellion.)

Free trade with developed nations, that's not a problem to me, and that's why the agreement with the European Union is A-OK in my eyes. I trust the European union to trade fairly, and treat it's businesses and workers fairly. I don't trust Turkey, and I certainly don't trust our businesses to treat more fresh meat fairly either. We should encourage proper development in other economies, through such clauses as encouraging regulation, discouraging long hours and child labor, we should explain that there's nothing wrong with unions and protections for workers. Do we want a world with fair, developed economies, or do we want a world where one part of the world is rich and prosperous and developed and free, and the other, impoverished, overworked, sick, and dependent on our corporations for the meager lives they live? We shouldn't pass trade agreement after trade agreement just to give our businesses more feeding ground.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Wow so now if a government doesn't fit Marokai's progressive wet dream we shouldn't trade with them?  This is getting absurd, who are we going to trade with?  The independent country of Fire Island?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Wow so now if a government doesn't fit Marokai's progressive wet dream we shouldn't trade with them?  This is getting absurd, who are we going to trade with?  The independent country of Fire Island?

I wouldn't call "don't overwork children and suppress individual liberty" my wet dream. If that's a "wet dream" to you, I'd re-evaluate your priorities.

Trade can work toward those goals.

PS: That's why I don't bother with sensible responses half the time.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Well if I were in the senate I would have responsed more eloquently and sensibly , its a perk of being out of office

[Marokai Backbeat]

Well if I were in the senate I would have responsed more eloquently and sensibly , its a perk of being out of office

Perhaps trying that once in awhile would get you back into office.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Well if I were in the senate I would have responsed more eloquently and sensibly , its a perk of being out of office

Perhaps trying that once in awhile would get you back into office.

Nah, I could easily get back in if I wanted to (perks of STV) but really I feel its a pretty boring place right now and my compatriots will do a fine job.

[Purple State]

The Turkish definition of secularization is suppression of religion.

Better than the Saudi definition.

Is that what we're comparing it to?

You noticed there were other letters, most of which formed words in coherent sentences, that followed that sentence. I made it clear that the line you quoted was not a reason on its own.

[Хahar 🤔]

The Turkish definition of secularization is suppression of religion.

Better than the Saudi definition.

Is that what we're comparing it to?

You noticed there were other letters, most of which formed words in coherent sentences, that followed that sentence. I made it clear that the line you quoted was not a reason on its own.

Nevertheless, my point stands.

[Purple State]

The Turkish definition of secularization is suppression of religion.

Better than the Saudi definition.

Is that what we're comparing it to?

You noticed there were other letters, most of which formed words in coherent sentences, that followed that sentence. I made it clear that the line you quoted was not a reason on its own.

Nevertheless, my point stands.

Then to answer you, no that is not what we are comparing it to. Turkey is making a full faith attempt to modernize and join the international community. The best to way to ensure that secular forces overcome the challenge of religious extremism is through globalization and breaking down barriers, not building them up.

[Marokai Backbeat]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

1. Have you undergone some sort of personality transplant lately? You seem like an honorary member of the Regional Protection Party. Genuinely curious here.

2. This is the exact same response you and I got from the Right when we supported banning trade with nations that criminalize homosexuality. Where was this attitude then?

[Purple State]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

1. Have you undergone some sort of personality transplant lately? You seem like an honorary member of the Regional Protection Party. Genuinely curious here.

2. This is the exact same response you and I got from the Right when we supported banning trade with nations that criminalize homosexuality. Where was this attitude then?

My views are nuanced so I'll outline them quickly:

I am more often than not supportive of free trade (as my record and all of my public statements indicate, so this is nothing new). I will sometimes resist free trade with unacceptably belligerent nations (like Iran). I also do not mind some restrictions added on to FTAs (such as decriminalization of homosexuality, but not labor standards).

Does that clear it up?

[Marokai Backbeat]

I just pose one question to the Senators in support of this bill:

What, in your opinion, are free trade agreements for and what should they accomplish?