De Gaulle assassinatted by OAS
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  De Gaulle assassinatted by OAS
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« on: July 10, 2009, 11:47:26 AM »

Since I killed de Gaulle in my timeline and picked Debre as his successor, I have to admitt that I did it only by deflaut as I did not saw any candidate to succeed de Gaulle back in 1962, had OAS attempt in Petit-Clamart be succesfull

Assuming de Gaulle was assasinated in 1962 and France still had indirect election, who would be his successor (not counting of course interim President, in this case Monnerville)?
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Hash
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 03:22:52 PM »

The assassination would have occurred before the 1962 referendum and the NCM.

I'm not sure if Michel Debré would be the UNR's candidate. He was, after all, a big fan of authoritarian states, and hated parliament and parliamentarians with all his heart (he also hated a lot of other things). I know the UNR was never the biggest fan of parliament, but putting a parliament-hater like Debré as President would isolate the UNR even more than it was in the first legislature. The "parliamentary" right (CNI) would not support a parliament-hater, and I'm not sure if the RI would even have been founded to support Debré. The UNR's candidate would probably have been Pompidou... but still, the UNR was only slightly superior to the ADQ in terms of decent parliamentarians.

BUT - would the Gaullist have won? In the September 1962 Senate election, the parties of the party system did well (notably the CNI, but also the MRP and Radicals), and the people who elected them were the base of the electoral college. The 1958 election was not the norm, and the Gaullists were never strong in the Senate (and by consequence, in the electoral college). The most likely candidate would probably have been of the party system: Maurice Faure (Radical), Antoine Pinay (CNI), Pierre Pfimlin (MRP). Or even a compromise Gaullist, Edgar Faure or Pierre Sudreau. Guy Mollet or a Socialist would have done poorly, too leftie for the rural-based electoral college. Communist candidate is irrelevant.

I read an article which thought about an indirect election in 1962, but it came after the defeat in the 1962 referendum, in which the party system takes over with Antoine Pinay (CNI) as President. A Italy First Republic setup ensues, or a Fourth Republic bis.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 04:18:20 PM »
« Edited: July 10, 2009, 04:21:23 PM by Antonio V »

Probably Chaban or Pompidou.

Oh, right. Forgot there was no PV election a this time... So, as Hash, I would say a rightist moderate rather than a gaullist. And the Vth Republic rapidly turning into a classical parliamentary republic.
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big bad fab
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 05:36:10 PM »

The assassination would have occurred before the 1962 referendum and the NCM.

I'm not sure if Michel Debré would be the UNR's candidate. He was, after all, a big fan of authoritarian states, and hated parliament and parliamentarians with all his heart (he also hated a lot of other things). I know the UNR was never the biggest fan of parliament, but putting a parliament-hater like Debré as President would isolate the UNR even more than it was in the first legislature. The "parliamentary" right (CNI) would not support a parliament-hater, and I'm not sure if the RI would even have been founded to support Debré. The UNR's candidate would probably have been Pompidou... but still, the UNR was only slightly superior to the ADQ in terms of decent parliamentarians.

BUT - would the Gaullist have won? In the September 1962 Senate election, the parties of the party system did well (notably the CNI, but also the MRP and Radicals), and the people who elected them were the base of the electoral college. The 1958 election was not the norm, and the Gaullists were never strong in the Senate (and by consequence, in the electoral college). The most likely candidate would probably have been of the party system: Maurice Faure (Radical), Antoine Pinay (CNI), Pierre Pfimlin (MRP). Or even a compromise Gaullist, Edgar Faure or Pierre Sudreau. Guy Mollet or a Socialist would have done poorly, too leftie for the rural-based electoral college. Communist candidate is irrelevant.

I read an article which thought about an indirect election in 1962, but it came after the defeat in the 1962 referendum, in which the party system takes over with Antoine Pinay (CNI) as President. A Italy First Republic setup ensues, or a Fourth Republic bis.

Pompidou wasn't powerful enough inside the gaullist movement at the time. Probably Debré ousted after the first round and Pinay, who was then very well considered, eventually elected.
And, of course, a parliamentarian trend, but with a president retaining some powers (see Romania nowadays) and a Sixth Republic (similar to the Third) as soon as the left and centre would have regained power.

Another possibility, though unlikely, would have been a big figure like René Cassin or Maurice Schumann, close to gaullism, with a Resistance past, but not entirely a politician.
And a parliamentarian shift even faster than with Pinay.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2009, 06:25:11 PM »

Yes, I forgot Pinay was still popular then
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