Bush's real debate style cause?

[dougrhess]

The Atlantic Monthly had a good article on the two candidate's debate styles:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200407/fallows

Fallows does a good job in pointint out how Bush's team has long feared Bush's facial expressions in debates and how Kerry comes across as patrician without a partician upbringing compared to Bush coming across as folksy with a partician upbringing.

Anyway...the interesting thing is this letter from a doctor in response to Fallow's article:

It points out that Bush's increasingly worse public performances could be signs of some health problems. Odd, I know, but I recall thinking this of DC's council chairman when I met with him a few times (he was a smart guy but seemed increasingly disorganized and abrupt) and turns out it he had a brain tumor. So, pajama crowd theory for the day (tongue firmly planted in cheek): is W's speech problem (like my typing problems!) indicitive of something else? ;-)

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The Atlantic Monthly had a good article on the two candidate's debate styles:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200407/fallows

Fallows does a good job in pointint out how Bush's team has long feared Bush's facial expressions in debates and how Kerry comes across as patrician without a partician upbringing compared to Bush coming across as folksy with a partician upbringing.

Anyway...the interesting thing is this letter from a doctor in response to Fallow's article:

It points out that Bush's increasingly worse public performances could be signs of some health problems. Odd, I know, but I recall thinking this of DC's council chairman when I met with him a few times (he was a smart guy but seemed increasingly disorganized and abrupt) and turns out it he had a brain tumor. So, pajama crowd theory for the day (tongue firmly planted in cheek): is W's speech problem (like my typing problems!) indicitive of something else? ;-)

This thread is worthless.  Bush's debate problem is very simple (he forgot his audience) and has nothing to do with his speech.

[MODU]

On a side note:

Who here has compared W's picture this year with that when he ran 4 years ago?  The past 4 years aged him quickly.  He looks more like his father every day.

[dougrhess]

It's not a worthless article. Don't judge it by my reading and remarks on it. Read it and judge for yourself; and explain why.

Forgot the link to the letter. Here's the last paragraph of the letter. The whole letter is "subscribers' only."

"Not being a professional medical researcher and clinician, Fallows cannot be faulted for not putting two and two together. But he was 100 percent correct in suggesting that Bush's problem cannot be "a learning disability, a reading problem, [or] dyslexia," because patients with those problems have always had them. Slowly developing cognitive deficits, as demonstrated so clearly by the President, can represent only one diagnosis, and that is "presenile dementia"! Presenile dementia is best described to nonmedical persons as a fairly typical Alzheimer's situation that develops significantly earlier in life, well before what is usually considered old age. It runs about the same course as typical senile dementias, such as classical Alzheimer's—to incapacitation and, eventually, death, as with President Ronald Reagan, but at a relatively earlier age. President Bush's "mangled" words are a demonstration of what physicians call "confabulation," and are almost specific to the diagnosis of a true dementia. Bush should immediately be given the advantage of a considered professional diagnosis, and started on drugs that offer the possibility of retarding the slow but inexorable course of the disease.

Joseph M. Price, M.D.
Carsonville, Mich."

[??????????]

It's not a worthless article. Don't judge it by my reading and remarks on it. Read it and judge for yourself; and explain why.

Forgot the link to the letter. Here's the last paragraph of the letter. The whole letter is "subscribers' only."

"Not being a professional medical researcher and clinician, Fallows cannot be faulted for not putting two and two together. But he was 100 percent correct in suggesting that Bush's problem cannot be "a learning disability, a reading problem, [or] dyslexia," because patients with those problems have always had them. Slowly developing cognitive deficits, as demonstrated so clearly by the President, can represent only one diagnosis, and that is "presenile dementia"! Presenile dementia is best described to nonmedical persons as a fairly typical Alzheimer's situation that develops significantly earlier in life, well before what is usually considered old age. It runs about the same course as typical senile dementias, such as classical Alzheimer's—to incapacitation and, eventually, death, as with President Ronald Reagan, but at a relatively earlier age. President Bush's "mangled" words are a demonstration of what physicians call "confabulation," and are almost specific to the diagnosis of a true dementia. Bush should immediately be given the advantage of a considered professional diagnosis, and started on drugs that offer the possibility of retarding the slow but inexorable course of the disease.

Joseph M. Price, M.D.
Carsonville, Mich."

What if this were actually true and the Bush people were trying to cover it up. Much like people covered up FDRs disability and Reagans Alzheimers. Though pretty far fetched wouldn't that just be shocking?

[J. J.]

It's not a worthless article. Don't judge it by my reading and remarks on it. Read it and judge for yourself; and explain why.

Forgot the link to the letter. Here's the last paragraph of the letter. The whole letter is "subscribers' only."

"Not being a professional medical researcher and clinician, Fallows cannot be faulted for not putting two and two together. But he was 100 percent correct in suggesting that Bush's problem cannot be "a learning disability, a reading problem, [or] dyslexia," because patients with those problems have always had them. Slowly developing cognitive deficits, as demonstrated so clearly by the President, can represent only one diagnosis, and that is "presenile dementia"! Presenile dementia is best described to nonmedical persons as a fairly typical Alzheimer's situation that develops significantly earlier in life, well before what is usually considered old age. It runs about the same course as typical senile dementias, such as classical Alzheimer's—to incapacitation and, eventually, death, as with President Ronald Reagan, but at a relatively earlier age. President Bush's "mangled" words are a demonstration of what physicians call "confabulation," and are almost specific to the diagnosis of a true dementia. Bush should immediately be given the advantage of a considered professional diagnosis, and started on drugs that offer the possibility of retarding the slow but inexorable course of the disease.

Joseph M. Price, M.D.
Carsonville, Mich."

Dr. Price, and I'm assuming the same one, wrote a book described as this:

"Dr. Joseph M. Price, MD in his book 'Coronaries/Cholesterol/Chlorine', wrote that the cause of arteriosclerosis, resulting heart attacks, and strokes is none other than the chlorine in our drinking water. "


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp

Now, all "General Jack D. Ripper" jokes from Dr. Strangelove aside, maybe Dr. Price cannot be regarded as an expert on "pre-senile dementia," at least enough to judge this from a distance.

Does Bush have excellent verbal skills?  No.  Is this a sign of something?  No.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

It's not a worthless article. Don't judge it by my reading and remarks on it. Read it and judge for yourself; and explain why.

I don't need to read any article to understand Bush's problem, for I can explain it in a simple and ironclad fashion, so pay attention and see if you can keep up:

Point 1) Bush has never been a good speaker, last Thursday night was no different, thus no assumption can be made that his health is deteriorating.

Point 2) Bush simply forgot his audience.  That is either a sign of being preoccupied with other more important matters (like having had a fight with his wife or an illness in the family) or it is a sign of INCOMPETENCE.

Now, if you disagree with either one of those two simple points, then state your objections.

[??????????]

It's not a worthless article. Don't judge it by my reading and remarks on it. Read it and judge for yourself; and explain why.

I don't need to read any article to understand Bush's problem, for I can explain it in a simple and ironclad fashion, so pay attention and see if you can keep up:

Point 1) Bush has never been a good speaker, last Thursday night was no different, thus no assumption can be made that his health is deteriorating.

Point 2) Bush simply forgot his audience.  That is either a sign of being preoccupied with other more important matters (like having had a fight with his wife or an illness in the family) or it is a sign of INCOMPETENCE.

Now, if you disagree with either one of those two simple points, then state your[/t] objections.

Why don't you just throw your vote behind Kerry and get it over with already.

[dougrhess]

Dr. Price, and I'm assuming the same one, wrote a book described as this:

"Dr. Joseph M. Price, MD in his book 'Coronaries/Cholesterol/Chlorine', wrote that the cause of arteriosclerosis, resulting heart attacks, and strokes is none other than the chlorine in our drinking water. "


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp

Now, all "General Jack D. Ripper" jokes from Dr. Strangelove aside, maybe Dr. Price cannot be regarded as an expert on "pre-senile dementia," at least enough to judge this from a distance.

Does Bush have excellent verbal skills?  No.  Is this a sign of something?  No.

You win. ;-)  It's all tongue in cheek. As I said, it's fodder for the pajama crowd.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Why don't you just throw your vote behind Kerry and get it over with already.

Stop trying to label me as a Kerry supporter simply because you have nothing better to say.

I am still voting for Bush, due to the lack of any better alternative, but that doesn't hide the fact that Bush didn't understand the purpose of Thursday night's debate.

[??????????]

Why don't you just throw your vote behind Kerry and get it over with already.

Stop trying to label me as a Kerry supporter simply because you have nothing better to say.

I am still voting for Bush, due to the lack of any better alternative, but that doesn't hide the fact that Bush didn't understand the purpose of Thursday night's debate.

The problem with what you're doing is that you're just giving the anti-Bush folks and the communists on the left more ammunition to use against Bush. I wil admit he is NOT the best of speakers but I also realize that some of our greatest historical figures have lacked a clear ability to give a good speech. You are nitpicking him on something that is very minor and you give him no credit whatsoever for his other accomplishments. I am so sick of the negativity of these Republicans. I have never spoke before millions and neither have you. We do not know how WE would be before a crowd of millions, do we?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The problem with what you're doing is that you're just giving the anti-Bush folks and the communists on the left more ammunition to use against Bush.

I don’t see anyone on the left making my argument.  Probably because few of them understand anything about leadership.

---

I will admit he is NOT the best of speakers but I also realize that some of our greatest historical figures have lacked a clear ability to give a good speech. You are nitpicking him on something that is very minor and you give him no credit whatsoever for his other accomplishments. I am so sick of the negativity of these Republicans.

I do NOT find it “minor” that a leader is not mindful of those he is leading.  In fact, I view it as the MOST IMPORTANT attribute that a leader can have.

If Bush had been thinking of the American people, then he would have approached the debate totally differently: He would not have been angry at Kerry’s positions, rather he would have joyfully seen them as an opportunity to point out their flaws, contrasting them to his own views, reminding the American people of the overall goal and how his plan is the best approach.

But, because he wasn’t mindful of the American people, Bush viewed the debate as if he and Kerry were the only people in the room.  He spoke to John Kerry, not to the American people.

That is why Bush acted like he didn’t want to be bothered by questions.  Bush rightfully sees John Kerry as a flip-flopping pest, but Bush failed to realize that he was answering to the American people and not to John Kerry.

Bush failed the first test of leadership:  Be mindful of whom you are leading.

Bush forgot he was a servant…and how he was able to forget that is beyond my understanding.

---

I have never spoke before millions and neither have you. We do not know how WE would be before a crowd of millions, do we?

Which only supports my point: How do you forget your audience when you’re given the opportunity to speak in front of tens of millions of people?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

"Gotta Serve Somebody"...a song by Bob Dylan that Bush needs to listen to.

You may be an ambassador to England or France,
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance,
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world,
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
indeed You're gonna have to serve somebody, Well,
it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But
you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You might be a rock 'n' roll addict prancing on
the stage, You might have drugs at your command,
women in a cage, You may be a business man or
some high degree thief, They may call you Doctor
or they may call you Chief

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
indeed You're gonna have to serve somebody, Well,
it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But
you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a state trooper, you might be a young
Turk, You may be the head of some big TV network,
You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or
lame, You may be living in another country under
another name

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
indeed You're gonna have to serve somebody, Well,
it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But
you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a construction worker working on a
home, You may be living in a mansion or you might
live in a dome, You might own guns and you might
even own tanks, You might be somebody's landlord,
you might even own banks

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
indeed You're gonna have to serve somebody, Well,
it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But
you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a preacher with your spiritual pride,
You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the
side, You may be workin' in a barbershop, you may
know how to cut hair, You may be somebody's
mistress, may be somebody's heir

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
indeed You're gonna have to serve somebody, Well,
it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But
you're gonna have to serve somebody.

Might like to wear cotton, might like to wear
silk, Might like to drink whiskey, might like to
drink milk, You might like to eat caviar, you
might like to eat bread, You may be sleeping on
the floor, sleeping in a king-sized bed

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
indeed You're gonna have to serve somebody, Well,
it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But
you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may call me Terry, you may call me Timmy, You
may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy, You may
call me R.J., you may call me Ray, You may call
me anything but no matter what you say

You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody. Well, it may
be the devil or it may be the Lord But you're
gonna have to serve somebody.

[J. J.]

You win. ;-)  It's all tongue in cheek. As I said, it's fodder for the pajama crowd.

Because I am an expert (and nationally known) in one field, which I will admit is minor, I rarely take expert advice without checking credentials.  I do have the very annoying hadit of reading doctors walls.

BTW:  My walls are quite impressive.  I keep the stuff up to intimidate the police.  :-)

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

BTW:  My walls are quite impressive.  I keep the stuff up to intimidate the police.  :-)

Your walls only show what you have accomplished in the past.  Leave one wall blank so that you'll have room for future accomplishments.

[J. J.]

I keep on having to buy more frames!

[??????????]

I agree with you JMF. Bush let himself get pushed around to easily. He should have attacked Kerry like an attack dog on the past lies the Democrats have thrown out to the media. For 3 years we have been hearing how Bush is a nazi and Hitler Jr. Bush should have destroyed Kerry like LBJ did to Goldwater in 1964. Bush needs to run a Daisy Girl style ad against Kerry.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I agree with you JMF. Bush let himself get pushed around to easily. He should have attacked Kerry like an attack dog on the past lies the Democrats have thrown out to the media. For 3 years we have been hearing how Bush is a nazi and Hitler Jr. Bush should have destroyed Kerry like LBJ did to Goldwater in 1964. Bush needs to run a Daisy Girl style ad against Kerry.

Again, you seem to be missing my point, so let me give you another example using Bush’s famous remarks while standing on the rubble of the WTC:

Voice of the People: “We can’t hear you!”

Bush:  “You can’t hear me, but I hear you.  And the people who tore down these building will soon hear from all of us.”

Why were Bush remarks so perfect?  Because he remembered who he was leading:

“You can’t hear me, but I hear you”…. TRANSLATION – “It’s not my voice that is important, rather it is your voice that is important”.

“And the people that tore down these building will soon hear from all of us.”….TRANSLATION – “We will speak as one, not as individuals.”

Bush’s remarks earned him the admiration of the People because Bush lowered himself and fully communicate that he was only a servant and would speak, not for himself, but for the American people. Bush was articulate on the rubble of the WTC because he was fully focused on the American people and his role as their leader.

Last Thursday night, Bush was just the opposite.  He was too busy to talk to the American people, and spoke only as an individual, instead of as a leader.  He wasn’t focused on his role as a servant, thus his thoughts were unfocused because his attitude contradicted with the role of a leader.

[??????????]

I agree with you JMF. Bush let himself get pushed around to easily. He should have attacked Kerry like an attack dog on the past lies the Democrats have thrown out to the media. For 3 years we have been hearing how Bush is a nazi and Hitler Jr. Bush should have destroyed Kerry like LBJ did to Goldwater in 1964. Bush needs to run a Daisy Girl style ad against Kerry.

Again, you seem to be missing my point, so let me give you another example using Bush’s famous remarks while standing on the rubble of the WTC:

Voice of the People: “We can’t hear you!”

Bush:  “You can’t hear me, but I hear you.  And the people who tore down these building will soon hear from all of us.”

Why were Bush remarks so perfect?  Because he remembered who he was leading:

“You can’t hear me, but I hear you”…. TRANSLATION – “It’s not my voice that is important, rather it is your voice that is important”.

“And the people that tore down these building will soon hear from all of us.”….TRANSLATION – “We will speak as one, not as individuals.”

Bush’s remarks earned him the admiration of the People because Bush lowered himself and fully communicate that he was only a servant and would speak, not for himself, but for the American people. Bush was articulate on the rubble of the WTC because he was fully focused on the American people and his role as their leader.

Last Thursday night, Bush was just the opposite.  He was too busy to talk to the American people, and spoke only as an individual, instead of as a leader.  He wasn’t focused on his role as a servant, thus his thoughts were unfocused because his attitude contradicted with the role of a leader.

I think he'll do well tonight. The town hall is the kind of enviroment he thrives in.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I think he'll do well tonight. The town hall is the kind of enviroment he thrives in.

Let's hope so.

[dougrhess]

I agree with you JMF. Bush let himself get pushed around to easily. He should have attacked Kerry like an attack dog on the past lies the Democrats have thrown out to the media. For 3 years we have been hearing how Bush is a nazi and Hitler Jr. Bush should have destroyed Kerry like LBJ did to Goldwater in 1964. Bush needs to run a Daisy Girl style ad against Kerry.

Bush needs to run an anti-militarism ad?

[??????????]

I agree with you JMF. Bush let himself get pushed around to easily. He should have attacked Kerry like an attack dog on the past lies the Democrats have thrown out to the media. For 3 years we have been hearing how Bush is a nazi and Hitler Jr. Bush should have destroyed Kerry like LBJ did to Goldwater in 1964. Bush needs to run a Daisy Girl style ad against Kerry.

Bush needs to run an anti-militarism ad?

He needs to attack Kerry on Iraq and show the US how Kerry will turn Iraq into Vietnam 2.