Cheney lied about having never met Edwards

[Nym90]

By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer

CLEVELAND - Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) said Tuesday night that the debate with Democratic Sen. John Edwards (news - web sites) marked the first time they had met. In fact, the two had met at least three times previously.

Cheney made the remark while accusing Edwards of frequent absences from Senate votes.


"Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session. The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight," Cheney told Edwards during the debate.


On Feb. 1, 2001, the vice president thanked Edwards by name at a Senate prayer breakfast and sat beside him during the event.


On April 8, 2001, Cheney and Edwards shook hands when they met off-camera during a taping of NBC's "Meet the Press," moderator Tim Russert said Wednesday on "Today."


On Jan. 8, 2003, the two met when the first-term North Carolina senator accompanied Elizabeth Dole (news - web sites) to her swearing-in by Cheney as a North Carolina senator, Edwards aides also said.


Edwards didn't forget their prayer-breakfast meeting. The Democratic vice presidential candidate noted the discrepancy at a post-debate rally in a Cleveland park, calling it an example of Cheney "still not being straight with the American people."


"The vice president said that the first time I met Senator Edwards was tonight when we walked on the stage. I guess he forgot the time we sat next to each other for a couple hours about three years ago. I guess he forgot the time we met at the swearing in of another senator. So, my wife Elizabeth reminded him on the stage," Edwards said as the crowd roared.


According to Edwards' staff, Cheney replied, "Oh, yeah."


"She reminded him about the truth," Edwards told the crowd, "and come November, we're going to remind him that the American people do not want four more years of George W. Bush."

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Earth to Dems: You're taking the bait...hook, line, and sinker!

[Nym90]

Earth to Dems: You're taking the bait...hook, line, and sinker!

I agree that this distracts from the real issues, and that usually benefits the Bush/Cheney ticket (see Swift Boat Ads, "Memogate", etc.).

But it still doesn't change the fact that Cheney did lie; either that or he just forgot. It's not a big deal, but imagine if Al Gore had made this kind of mistake.

[shankbear]

Wait....AL invented the internet!!!!!!  Remember!!!

[Nym90]

Wait....AL invented the internet!!!!!!  Remember!!!

No I don't, because he never actually said that he invented the internet.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Earth to Dems: You're taking the bait...hook, line, and sinker!

I agree that this distracts from the real issues, and that usually benefits the Bush/Cheney ticket (see Swift Boat Ads, "Memogate", etc.).

But it still doesn't change the fact that Cheney did lie; either that or he just forgot. It's not a big deal, but imagine if Al Gore had made this kind of mistake.

Dude, Kerry brought a cheat sheet into his debate, but Reps would be smart not to bring it up because it only reminds people of Bush's horrible performance.  Likewise, Dems bringing up the fact that Cheney had indeed met Edwards before, only repeatedly focuses the spotlight on the fact that Kerry and Edwards haven't been doing the job of Senator the last two years.

Stop being played.

[Nym90]

Earth to Dems: You're taking the bait...hook, line, and sinker!

I agree that this distracts from the real issues, and that usually benefits the Bush/Cheney ticket (see Swift Boat Ads, "Memogate", etc.).

But it still doesn't change the fact that Cheney did lie; either that or he just forgot. It's not a big deal, but imagine if Al Gore had made this kind of mistake.

Dude, Kerry brought a cheat sheet into his debate, but Reps would be smart not to bring it up because it only reminds people of Bush's horrible performance.  Likewise, Dems bringing up the fact that Cheney had indeed met Edwards before, only repeatedly focuses the spotlight on the fact that Kerry and Edwards haven't been doing the job of Senator the last two years.

Stop being played.

Except he didn't bring a cheat sheet in. It was proved to be a pen.

I agree with your point, and this shouldn't be a big issue at all, but it depends on how bad the distortion is. If a distortion is bad enough it can backfire on the politician and obscure the positive message. That's why I brought up Gore.

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

That was Gore's infamous quote. He was referring to having cosponsored legislation that helped foster the growth of the internet into what it has become today, as opposed to what it was in the 1980's at the time of the legislation's passage. Yes, it was actually invented in 1969, but clearly the internet of today and that of the 1980's are very different things in many respects. So Gore did help to create the modern internet, and he never used the word "invent".

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Except he didn't bring a cheat sheet in. It was proved to be a pen.

Regardless, Kerry is immune to any charges of cheating because of the overriding fact that Bush proved to be a moron.

Likewise, Cheney is immune because Kerry & Edwards not showing up for work on the taxpayer's dime is a far more serious charge....and it is an undeniable fact.  And fair-minded commentators like Chris Matthews are going to go after Kerry and Edwards on this.

But, hey, be my guest, drag the issue out for a week.  That’s what Cheney is there for – to take the heat.  And Cheney can simply correct himself by saying, “Oh, that’s right.  I bumped into him eating breakfast, but I never saw him on Senate floor.”…then, if a tape comes out showing Cheney and Edwards together once on the Senate floor, Cheney can say, “I’m glad to see he decided to come to work one time this year!”…and the point is made over and over.

[stry_cat]

Wait....AL invented the internet!!!!!!  Remember!!!

No I don't, because he never actually said that he invented the internet.

Actually he did.  I've seen a tape of the interview. 

[12th Doctor]

Wait....AL invented the internet!!!!!!  Remember!!!

No I don't, because he never actually said that he invented the internet.

Ummmm.  Eric, yes he did.  He said it on Meet the Press in 1999, exactly as it was quoted. 

Russert asked him, "What have your accomplishments been as Vice-President and a U.S. Senator?"

Al Gore responded, "I invented the internet".  He went on to explain what he meant, but that doesn't change the fact that he said it.

[elcorazon]

Wait....AL invented the internet!!!!!!  Remember!!!

No I don't, because he never actually said that he invented the internet.

Ummmm.  Eric, yes he did.  He said it on Meet the Press in 1999, exactly as it was quoted. 

Russert asked him, "What have your accomplishments been as Vice-President and a U.S. Senator?"

Al Gore responded, "I invented the internet".  He went on to explain what he meant, but that doesn't change the fact that he said it.

Have you ever even noticed some of the malapropisms and misspeakings of our current president.  I'm not saying that Bush should be voted out because sometimes the words don't come out right, but you have to admit that Gore's slight slip has gotten HUGE mileage given the significance of the misstatement.

By your logic, we should take Bush to task regularly about his support of OB/GYN's "loving" their patients.  this is silly.

By the way, I really couldn't give a crap about whether Edwards & Cheney ever met before; it was a good line by Cheney that won't benefit the dems to argue about, regardless of the merit.

[12th Doctor]

Wait....AL invented the internet!!!!!!  Remember!!!

No I don't, because he never actually said that he invented the internet.

Ummmm.  Eric, yes he did.  He said it on Meet the Press in 1999, exactly as it was quoted. 

Russert asked him, "What have your accomplishments been as Vice-President and a U.S. Senator?"

Al Gore responded, "I invented the internet".  He went on to explain what he meant, but that doesn't change the fact that he said it.

Have you ever even noticed some of the malapropisms and misspeakings of our current president.  I'm not saying that Bush should be voted out because sometimes the words don't come out right, but you have to admit that Gore's slight slip has gotten HUGE mileage given the significance of the misstatement.

By your logic, we should take Bush to task regularly about his support of OB/GYN's "loving" their patients.  this is silly.

By the way, I really couldn't give a crap about whether Edwards & Cheney ever met before; it was a good line by Cheney that won't benefit the dems to argue about, regardless of the merit.

"There you go again".

It is the Libs who are constantly pointing out the misspeaks of Bush, using them as "evidence" of his "stupidity".

All I am saying is that the no ones misspeaks should matter, so long as what they meant to say is obvious.

Everyone knows what Bush was trying to say when he said:

"Rarely is the question being asked 'Is our children learning'".

But still this line and others get repeated with total lack of regard for the missteps of the Dems.

All I ask is for some fairness.

[elcorazon]

I think we agree super.  I thought you were trying to say Gore's "misstatement" was deserving of the ridicule it's gotten.  By the way, with Bush it's more the pattern that makes it funny, kinda like Ford falling down.  I don't think it's much more than pure entertainment.  With Gore, I got the feeling it was an attempt to discredit his honesty.

I do think many believe a president should be a "bit" of a statesman, able to make points in some manner of eloquence.

[The Duke]

My question, why didn't Edwards ay this at the time?

I met Cheney, adn I remember it quite well.  I'f have thought Edwards with his great court room mind would be able to rmemeber a tiny thing like meeting the man who's effectively CEO of the country.

[Sarnstrom]

This photo proves Dick Cheney is a liar:

[The Duke]

This photo proves Dick Cheney is a liar:

Great.  No one here doubted this, all we are saying is that either:

1. Criticizing Cheney after supporting Gore is hypocrisy (Soulty's argument)
2. You've taken the abit and played into bush's hands by obsessing voer this (jmf's argument)
3. This highlights Edwards' slow wittedness (my argument)

Maybe you can post that picture at DU and someone will care.

[Nym90]

Wait....AL invented the internet!!!!!!  Remember!!!

No I don't, because he never actually said that he invented the internet.

Ummmm.  Eric, yes he did.  He said it on Meet the Press in 1999, exactly as it was quoted. 

Russert asked him, "What have your accomplishments been as Vice-President and a U.S. Senator?"

Al Gore responded, "I invented the internet".  He went on to explain what he meant, but that doesn't change the fact that he said it.

Have you ever even noticed some of the malapropisms and misspeakings of our current president.  I'm not saying that Bush should be voted out because sometimes the words don't come out right, but you have to admit that Gore's slight slip has gotten HUGE mileage given the significance of the misstatement.

By your logic, we should take Bush to task regularly about his support of OB/GYN's "loving" their patients.  this is silly.

By the way, I really couldn't give a crap about whether Edwards & Cheney ever met before; it was a good line by Cheney that won't benefit the dems to argue about, regardless of the merit.

"There you go again".

It is the Libs who are constantly pointing out the misspeaks of Bush, using them as "evidence" of his "stupidity".

All I am saying is that the no ones misspeaks should matter, so long as what they meant to say is obvious.

Everyone knows what Bush was trying to say when he said:

"Rarely is the question being asked 'Is our children learning'".

But still this line and others get repeated with total lack of regard for the missteps of the Dems.

All I ask is for some fairness.

If you want fairness, start out by treating liberals fairly by not painting us all with the same brush. You seem quite fond of these generalizations of liberals, which then become de facto ad hominem attacks to discredit us when we have a good point.

And the hypocricy argument goes both ways. It's hypocritical to say Cheney and Bush's missteps are ok but not Gore's, too. I never said Gore's missteps were ok, and I don't think this is a big deal either, I understand Cheney may have forgotten meeting Edwards, that's fine. But still, the public deserves to know the truth. I wouldn't want people to go around actually thinking Gore invented the internet, I'm glad it was cleared up that he didn't. But to belabor the point and ignore the greater message is stupid. I'm not ignoring Cheney's point or discrediting it at all, I'm just playing fair by pointing out that he was wrong.

[Gabu]

If you want fairness, start out by treating liberals fairly by not painting us all with the same brush. You seem quite fond of these generalizations of liberals, which then become de facto ad hominem attacks to discredit us when we have a good point.

And the hypocricy argument goes both ways. It's hypocritical to say Cheney and Bush's missteps are ok but not Gore's, too. I never said Gore's missteps were ok, and I don't think this is a big deal either, I understand Cheney may have forgotten meeting Edwards, that's fine. But still, the public deserves to know the truth. I wouldn't want people to go around actually thinking Gore invented the internet, I'm glad it was cleared up that he didn't. But to belabor the point and ignore the greater message is stupid. I'm not ignoring Cheney's point or discrediting it at all, I'm just playing fair by pointing out that he was wrong.

Generally, when you support something, a lot more nuances and grey areas can be found than when you're against something.  When you support something, you can make a three-page explanation for why something that appears to discredit it does not actually do so.  When you're against something, however, things tend to be extremely black-and-white: this thing is bad, period, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, and any facts that say otherwise can be explained away.

Likewise, when both someone you support and someone you don't support do the exact same bad thing, you'll probably see tons of nuances around what the person did who you support, but what the person did who you didn't support will be extremely black-and-white: it was bad, period.

We're all guilty of this to some extent.  Life would have a lot less angry conflicts if people realized that there are grey areas and nuances around both people's stances, but it's not likely that that will happen.

[Nym90]

If you want fairness, start out by treating liberals fairly by not painting us all with the same brush. You seem quite fond of these generalizations of liberals, which then become de facto ad hominem attacks to discredit us when we have a good point.

And the hypocricy argument goes both ways. It's hypocritical to say Cheney and Bush's missteps are ok but not Gore's, too. I never said Gore's missteps were ok, and I don't think this is a big deal either, I understand Cheney may have forgotten meeting Edwards, that's fine. But still, the public deserves to know the truth. I wouldn't want people to go around actually thinking Gore invented the internet, I'm glad it was cleared up that he didn't. But to belabor the point and ignore the greater message is stupid. I'm not ignoring Cheney's point or discrediting it at all, I'm just playing fair by pointing out that he was wrong.

Generally, when you support something, a lot more nuances and grey areas can be found than when you're against something.  When you support something, you can make a three-page explanation for why something that appears to discredit it does not actually do so.  When you're against something, however, things tend to be extremely black-and-white: this thing is bad, period, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, and any facts that say otherwise can be explained away.

Likewise, when both someone you support and someone you don't support do the exact same bad thing, you'll probably see tons of nuances around what the person did who you support, but what the person did who you didn't support will be extremely black-and-white: it was bad, period.

We're all guilty of this to some extent.  Life would have a lot less angry conflicts if people realized that there are grey areas and nuances around both people's stances, but it's not likely that that will happen.

Good analysis.

I think I do my best to see the nuance both ways, and like I said, I'm not discrediting what Cheney said just because he's wrong on this one point, but I also don't see why it's wrong to point out that his statement was false, either. That's just the facts. You can argue that it's irrelevant that his statement was false, but it doesn't make it any less false.

[Nym90]

Wait....AL invented the internet!!!!!!  Remember!!!

No I don't, because he never actually said that he invented the internet.

Ummmm.  Eric, yes he did.  He said it on Meet the Press in 1999, exactly as it was quoted. 

Russert asked him, "What have your accomplishments been as Vice-President and a U.S. Senator?"

Al Gore responded, "I invented the internet".  He went on to explain what he meant, but that doesn't change the fact that he said it.

Um, no. I already showed the quote in question, which was on Wolf Blitzer in 1999. Unless there is some such Meet the Press quote that I am unaware of, but an exhaustive Google search didn't turn it up.

[12th Doctor]

If you want fairness, start out by treating liberals fairly by not painting us all with the same brush. You seem quite fond of these generalizations of liberals, which then become de facto ad hominem attacks to discredit us when we have a good point.

Point taken.  I do over generalize too much, but must of my generalizations are 70%-80% accurate, so nit picking them doesn't mean much.

And the hypocricy argument goes both ways. It's hypocritical to say Cheney and Bush's missteps are ok but not Gore's, too. I never said Gore's missteps were ok, and I don't think this is a big deal either, I understand Cheney may have forgotten meeting Edwards, that's fine. But still, the public deserves to know the truth. I wouldn't want people to go around actually thinking Gore invented the internet, I'm glad it was cleared up that he didn't. But to belabor the point and ignore the greater message is stupid. I'm not ignoring Cheney's point or discrediting it at all, I'm just playing fair by pointing out that he was wrong.

Eric, you lead the thread by saying "Cheney Lied...." That is more than just informing the public, that is an accusation.

Another thing I could go on about is all this "Bush Lied...." BS.  Clearly, a lot (there happy?) of Democrats have forgotten that there is a difference between a lie and mistake.  But, no, Bush gets no benefit of the doubt what-so-ever.

[Silent Hunter]

Cheney could have forgotten. He does meet a lot of people.