Mass Catholic pedophilia in Ireland

[Scam of God]

BBC (video included with article)

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Belfaste Telegraph:

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I doubt I could add much without veering into Internet Tough Guy territory out of rage, except that this dwarfs the American scandal in scale and scope.

[12th Doctor]

Well, I am glad this has finally come out.  I'm not glad about how this is going to be portrayed in the media, but I am glad it has come out.  Similar to what happened here in the U.S., if the Irish community had simply decided to come clean about this, then that would have spared a number of problems.

I suppose if there is a plus side to this, it is that the disdain that the European church has piled on the American church is going to sound far more hollow now.

[MaxQue]

Again! That's even worse than what they did to Natives in Quebec with the agreement of the government. A day, I was listening to the radio and I heard a Native said what they said him and I felt bad and I was almost sick because of that.

[dead0man]

It must be very very hard to be a good Catholic.

[opebo]

It must be very very hard to be a good Catholic.

Didn't you just post something in the other thread about how it is sometimes 'right' to make the weaker submit?

I'd say those little boy's bums were weak and made to submit.

[dead0man]

:roll eyes:

[memphis]

Anybody really surprised? May as well do a story about how people in China eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom just like Americans do.

[12th Doctor]

It must be very very hard to be a good Catholic.

What's that supposed to mean?

[MaxQue]

Anybody really surprised? May as well do a story about how people in China eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom just like Americans do.

Don't do that again! As a Catholic, I feel insulted by that free statement, without any bases.

[dead0man]

It must be very very hard to be a good Catholic.

What's that supposed to mean?

It can mean whatever you want it to mean.  I was meaning it in the "its got to be hard to see your own clergy repeatedly make the same mistake over and over again" and the "its getting tiring defending this BS".  Bad Catholics don't care/ignore it or accept it as part of the big package.  Good Catholics have a conscious and these kinds of things have to hurt and piss you off a great a deal.


...or I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, always a possibility of that.

[12th Doctor]

It must be very very hard to be a good Catholic.

What's that supposed to mean?

It can mean whatever you want it to mean.  I was meaning it in the "its got to be hard to see your own clergy repeatedly make the same mistake over and over again" and the "its getting tiring defending this BS".  Bad Catholics don't care/ignore it or accept it as part of the big package.  Good Catholics have a conscious and these kinds of things have to hurt and piss you off a great a deal.


...or I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, always a possibility of that.

I see.  Very good.  I misunderstood your intent.  My fault.

[Keystone Phil]

Anybody really surprised? May as well do a story about how people in China eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom just like Americans do.

Don't do that again! As a Catholic, I feel insulted by that free statement, without any bases.

Don't you dare say anything about Jews though! Those generalizations are totally uncalled for around here and memphis would be one of the first to whine about it.

The double standards on this forum are amazing.

[afleitch]

I am disgusted to the pit of my stomach with these revelations. I am also taken aback at the new Archbishop of Westminster who praised the 'courage' of the priests who confessed (he was slapped down by the Archbishop of Dublin) which was nothing more than a gut punch for the victims.

It is by the grace of God that the Church no longer excerts the same control of instiutions both in Ireland and the UK, that the state takes an active roll and indeed the need for such institutions has ebbed away with advances in childcare, education and societal attitudes.

[12th Doctor]

It is by the grace of God that the Church no longer excerts the same control of instiutions both in Ireland and the UK, that the state takes an active roll and indeed the need for such institutions has ebbed away with advances in childcare, education and societal attitudes.

Wait a second, hang on, back up.  First off, religious organizations ran hundreds of institutions like this for hundreds of years and this kind of abuse is still relatively uncommon.  A number of the instances in this report date back many decades and represent only a small sample of children who went through these institutions.

Secondly, abuse of this kind is no less common in modern private care, or state run care institutions, and to suggest that it is is just ludicrous.  They just aren't nearly as visible.

I condemn these priests and the people who allowed this to continue, but to try to turn this into an argument for subsidized childcare is beneath you, my friend. 

[Keystone Phil]

I condemn these priests and the people who allowed this to continue, but to try to turn this into an argument for subsidized childcare is beneath you, my friend. 

Agreed but you shouldn't be surprised. I once had some moron tell me that he knows that a majority of Catholic priests are pedophiles. Hatred for religion/this Church makes people say the craziest stuff.

[memphis]

Anybody really surprised? May as well do a story about how people in China eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom just like Americans do.

Don't do that again! As a Catholic, I feel insulted by that free statement, without any bases.

Don't you dare say anything about Jews though! Those generalizations are totally uncalled for around here and memphis would be one of the first to whine about it.

The double standards on this forum are amazing.

Feel free to mock as soon as there is international, massive child abuse that has been systematically covered up for decades. Seriously, can anybody honestly say that they are surprised by this?

[Keystone Phil]

Feel free to mock as soon as there is international, massive child abuse that has been systematically covered up for decades. Seriously, can anybody honestly say that they are surprised by this?

Wait a second, hang on, back up.  First off, religious organizations ran hundreds of institutions like this for hundreds of years and this kind of abuse is still relatively uncommon.  A number of the instances in this report date back many decades and represent only a small sample of children who went through these institutions.

Secondly, abuse of this kind is no less common in modern private care, or state run care institutions, and to suggest that it is is just ludicrous.  They just aren't nearly as visible.

It's not massive and it's only "international" because the Church has a highly visible chain of command (the Vatican). If Jews or Muslims or any other religion had leadership as highly recognized and there was a similar scandal, you can bet that there would be more stories coming out around the world.

And if this is so "massive," feel free to amuse me with your prediction as to how many priests are pedophiles. 10%? 25%? 50%? More?

[memphis]

Wikipedia says four percent of US priests have been accused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

I doubt four percent of rabbis or Baptist ministers or whoever are sexually abusing children. That's a really high number for such an inexcusable offense. Also, the efforts to cover up abuses make the situation so much worse. Again, can anybody say they are surprised by the Irish story?

[Keystone Phil]

Wikipedia says four percent of US priests have been accused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

Wow. A whopping 4% accused. Massive, indeed.

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So now it's 4% that are definitely abusing children and not just accused, right?

In fact, I haven't heard of any rabbis or Baptist ministers sexually abusing children, therefore, it doesn't happen.

You're basing your doubt on a guess. Nothing more.


 

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And there's a really high number of blacks that kill in my city. Really an inexcusable offense, too. But...oh, I won't go there...I can't say stuff like that.


 

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No one said it's not horrible but it's the hatred demonstrated by people like yourself that makes it worse. You're trying to make this sound like a widespread problem; that most Catholic priests are pedophiles and we shouldn't be surprised. You try to excuse everyone's ignorance and bigotry by continuing to repeat that we shouldn't be surprised, as if that justifies your feelings.

[Keystone Phil]

Sexual abuse/harassment in Jewish community - http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:P9nbj_cNzSYJ:www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm+sexual+abuse+by+rabbi&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


I linked to the cache version so you can see how often "rabbi" is mentioned. Before you dismiss the source, please realize that rabbis were cited throughout the study.

[memphis]

You think 4% isn't a lot? Comparing to black murderers? There are about 600,000 blacks in Philly. 4% would be 24,000 black murderers.  If there were that many (which there obviously aren't) I think we might be reasonable to talk about it. Jesus Christ, take a math class! BTW, there are far too many murders among blacks, and I think the fact that you have chosen to make the comparison says something. Again, the real reason this story has such a profound impact is that they Church has systematically covered it up and moved people to new environments where they can offend again.

[Keystone Phil]

You think 4% isn't a lot?

Sure, it's a lot. I think 1% is a lot. That being said, I'm tired of this hysteria that most priests are pedophiles and that it's some widespread problem. Again, you cited that 4% were accused.






 

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Then compare it to theft nationwide. Are a "whopping" amount of blacks thieves?


 

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And apparently in that math class, I'll learn that 4% is a "whopping" amount. Again, the 4% number is accused. You have yet to admit this.


 

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And I'm not going to deny that there are too many child abuse cases but, again, I'm tired of acting like this means most priests have a problem with pedophilia.


 

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And it's wrong and the most vocal, devout Catholics here are the ones most offended by it. The people responsible have to be held accountable.

Again, my problem is that this type of story is simply confronted with "Oh, those priests are screwing little boys again" and that leads an alarming amount of people to wrongly think that priests are pedophiles just as people wrongly assume that blacks are criminals.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well with the current trends of priests in the US, pretty soon 4% or 1% won't be a lot, simply due to the few priests there will be. I read somewhere at this rate there won't be any priests by 2070 or something like that.

[12th Doctor]

Wikipedia says four percent of US priests have been accused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

I doubt four percent of rabbis or Baptist ministers or whoever are sexually abusing children. That's a really high number for such an inexcusable offense. Also, the efforts to cover up abuses make the situation so much worse. Again, can anybody say they are surprised by the Irish story?

First off, you are a dumbass.

Secondly, you are a dumbass.

Third, you are a dumbass.

The first reason you are a dumbass is because, as Phil was pointing out, accused and guilty are not the same thing.  I know of three priests who have been accused at some point, two of them I know never would (and no proof was ever presented), and in the third case, it was proven that the "victim" was lying (though the victim had been abused by his real father as a child).  In fact, all scientific studies suggest that pedophilia is no more common in the Catholic priesthood than in the general population, and that, aside from being committed to celibacy, the sexual leanings of the Catholic priesthood are generally in line with those of the population at large.  Something like 80% of the recorded cases of sexual abuse were committed by repeat offender priests, who had generally abused as many as five children.  Thus, only a couple hundred priests, over the last fifty years, have accounted for the vast majority of cases.

The second reason you are a dumbass is because, in fact, ministers from other faiths are no less likely to be convicted of such charges as Catholic priests.  When it happens, though, it usually stays local, because people from these other faiths don't have bishops, archbishops and the Vatican above them to point fingers at (deservedly, at times).

However, I will never forget the story, about six years ago, about a child porn ring that was busted in West Virginia.  The news loudly proclaimed that two Catholic priests had been arrested as having a role in it.  You had to dig deep into the story before you discovered that three protestant ministers had also been arrested on charges, in connection to the same ring.

Third, well dude, you are just a dumbass, so go f-uck yourself.

[12th Doctor]

Well with the current trends of priests in the US, pretty soon 4% or 1% won't be a lot, simply due to the few priests there will be. I read somewhere at this rate there won't be any priests by 2070 or something like that.

Well, that is certainly true.